Aer Lingus Pilots to Strike
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Does anyone know at exactly what age senility sets in?
Are retired pilots more prone to it?
P2C, will you please clarify things for the aged Troll above? I refuse to communicate with it myself.
It appears to have trouble with english. In truth I think you need to be more explicit when wording things for it. You can try explaining that the agreement applies to ALL Aer Lingus pilots, wherever they live or work. Is that clear enough do you think? Will it get it?
Who knows?
The guys who designed the agreement were (thank Christ) a tad smarter and more foresighted than the has-been above. They framed it so well that Mannion and his cohorts have no way round it - so they've chosen to just drive through it. Bad move.
You can tell Mr.Alzheimers that an airline run on those grounds isn't worth having. There are plenty of pilot jobs like that out there already if you want 'em, and besides, people will still need to fly in and out of Ireland next week.
Its Mannions head thats on the chopping block, not yours.
Are retired pilots more prone to it?
P2C, will you please clarify things for the aged Troll above? I refuse to communicate with it myself.
It appears to have trouble with english. In truth I think you need to be more explicit when wording things for it. You can try explaining that the agreement applies to ALL Aer Lingus pilots, wherever they live or work. Is that clear enough do you think? Will it get it?
Who knows?
The guys who designed the agreement were (thank Christ) a tad smarter and more foresighted than the has-been above. They framed it so well that Mannion and his cohorts have no way round it - so they've chosen to just drive through it. Bad move.
You can tell Mr.Alzheimers that an airline run on those grounds isn't worth having. There are plenty of pilot jobs like that out there already if you want 'em, and besides, people will still need to fly in and out of Ireland next week.
Its Mannions head thats on the chopping block, not yours.
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IMO one world is an AL HOB plant paid to keep spewing out the same mantra.....not for a minute do i believe s/he is a retired pilot.....
Last edited by suasdaguna; 6th Sep 2007 at 08:32.
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ow22 - aer lingus pilots are not alone.we at ryanair support their stance fully,because we can see that management wants to drag them down into the the same type of cesspool that exists at fr.we can also see that any reduction in terms and conditions in one company has a detrimental knock on effect in other companies.that is one of the reasons why mol wants aer lingus out of the way so he can further drive down crew costs.it is clear that mol's meddling is ultimately for his and no others gain.for all pilots who think they are untouchable and reducing terms and conditions are market driven,you will one day have your eyes opened for you,what will you see.think about it!
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OW22
easyJet pilots fly on one AOC and all operate G registered aircraft. Up until very recently, thay all signed the same contract, regardless of base or the local economy. So yes, a pilot in Glasgow got the same pay as a pilot in Gatwick, or paris, or Berlin etc. They all worked for one company under one contract. They all get the same holidays, bonus and days off. Nobody is treated any different, be it in the UK or mainland europe, regardless of the local economy.
Recently, easyJet went to madrid and yes, the spanish government said they wanted their cut of taxes and social security. easyJet produced a contract and BALPA, yes BALPA told all new joiners and current employees not to go near madrid or sign anything as it had not been union approved. Aghast...I hear you exclaim! A British union, negotiate on behalf of a spanish base, for spanish local terms and conditions..how dare they! well they did. As a result, there is a british pilot union negotiated contract, given to spain based pilots. This contract is fair and transparent, and in fact has a slighty higher basic salary when GB£ converted.
The reason BALPA negotiated, is because eayJet is on a British AOC and is UK based. It is recognised as the appropriate union and selected by easyJet management. These are all facts. That is why IALPA is, and will continue to be the Aerlingus pilots union, for all Aerlingus pilots, be it in paris, berlin, london or dare I say it Belfast.
easyJet pilots fly on one AOC and all operate G registered aircraft. Up until very recently, thay all signed the same contract, regardless of base or the local economy. So yes, a pilot in Glasgow got the same pay as a pilot in Gatwick, or paris, or Berlin etc. They all worked for one company under one contract. They all get the same holidays, bonus and days off. Nobody is treated any different, be it in the UK or mainland europe, regardless of the local economy.
Recently, easyJet went to madrid and yes, the spanish government said they wanted their cut of taxes and social security. easyJet produced a contract and BALPA, yes BALPA told all new joiners and current employees not to go near madrid or sign anything as it had not been union approved. Aghast...I hear you exclaim! A British union, negotiate on behalf of a spanish base, for spanish local terms and conditions..how dare they! well they did. As a result, there is a british pilot union negotiated contract, given to spain based pilots. This contract is fair and transparent, and in fact has a slighty higher basic salary when GB£ converted.
The reason BALPA negotiated, is because eayJet is on a British AOC and is UK based. It is recognised as the appropriate union and selected by easyJet management. These are all facts. That is why IALPA is, and will continue to be the Aerlingus pilots union, for all Aerlingus pilots, be it in paris, berlin, london or dare I say it Belfast.
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Dim and Dumber.
What an unpleasant fellow you are, CaptKremin. Have you not discovered in your many, many years as a superior airline pilot, in between all those prostate massages from the unions sustaining your delusion, that you can get your point across without resorting to insult and buffoonery? If I didnt know better, your personality as revealed here would lead one to believe you might be an Australian. Is that right, CaptKremin?
As the flying world now knows following the union driven fiasco of 1989 that resulted in all those bitter and twisted, southseas whining nincompoops being scattered to the four winds, Australians in general and pilots in particular, are famous for covering the distance from reasonable to reactionary radical at light speed. You make my point perfectly, for which thanks. OneWord22 makes reasonable arguments to my mind, which you meet with insult and derision. It was ever thus.
You just dont seem to quite grasp the fact that because Aer Lingus is no longer free to suckle endlessly at the teat of the Irish State, it needs to pursue commercial success in order to survive. As shocking and unpalatable as this fundamental truth may be to an incorrigible union diehard such as yourself, theres no escaping it. Aer Lingus is sitting on a gold mine, but poor Dermots efforts to run the company properly are being thwarted on several fronts.
First of all, short haul is haemorrhaging cash. Long Haul makes lots of lovely money. Lets pause there for a moment for that to sink in, shall we? Short bad, Long good. As much as this wisdom applies equally to the unfortunate, plastic numbskull that leads your turgid, moribund organisation IALPA, its basic maths I wish to celebrate with you now.
Aer Lingus has certainly made great strides in attracting customers by lowering its fares in a forlorn attempt at becoming a sort of lime-green version of Ryanair. Great stuff, so far. This demonstrates the other fundamental truth that seems to have escaped you; the CUSTOMER (remember them?) determines success or failure.
The only problem with this plan, though, is that you cant compete with a monstrously successful airline like Ryanair by simply lowering fares when your cost base is high. You can compete on fares, but not on cost. This, my dear, has only one outcome in the long view, and Im afraid its not a happy one.
Secondly, Dermot has to somehow massage all those bearded troglodytes of SIPTU into realising that their cash cow needs to transform itself into a racehorse, and in double quick time whilst fending off perfectly reasonable requests from its largest shareholder, or to put it another way, from Ryanair, the organisation who OWNS 30 percent of you. Add to this the interference, visible and not, of a bruised and politically wary Taoiseach, and poor Dermot is reaching for the extra strength aspirin again.
Fundamentals of economics notwithstanding, the really tragic thing to watch from the safety of distance, is the sheer, unbridled stupidity and self-serving hubris with which you continue to pursue the downfall of your airline by means of suicide by union. The BFS base is a reasonable idea. You have nothing, absolutely nothing to say about it by way of complaint. Your fur-lined bubble is maintained status quo anti whilst your airline struggles to survive in a brutal, unforgiving market against highly able competitors who know what theyre doing.
When Aer Lingus fails, CaptKremin, thanks to you and those like you, and it certainly will unless IMPACT are dragged into the 21st century very quickly, you will surely not be surprised to find familiar faces wandering through all the green rubble as Openskies commences in March of next year.
As the flying world now knows following the union driven fiasco of 1989 that resulted in all those bitter and twisted, southseas whining nincompoops being scattered to the four winds, Australians in general and pilots in particular, are famous for covering the distance from reasonable to reactionary radical at light speed. You make my point perfectly, for which thanks. OneWord22 makes reasonable arguments to my mind, which you meet with insult and derision. It was ever thus.
You just dont seem to quite grasp the fact that because Aer Lingus is no longer free to suckle endlessly at the teat of the Irish State, it needs to pursue commercial success in order to survive. As shocking and unpalatable as this fundamental truth may be to an incorrigible union diehard such as yourself, theres no escaping it. Aer Lingus is sitting on a gold mine, but poor Dermots efforts to run the company properly are being thwarted on several fronts.
First of all, short haul is haemorrhaging cash. Long Haul makes lots of lovely money. Lets pause there for a moment for that to sink in, shall we? Short bad, Long good. As much as this wisdom applies equally to the unfortunate, plastic numbskull that leads your turgid, moribund organisation IALPA, its basic maths I wish to celebrate with you now.
Aer Lingus has certainly made great strides in attracting customers by lowering its fares in a forlorn attempt at becoming a sort of lime-green version of Ryanair. Great stuff, so far. This demonstrates the other fundamental truth that seems to have escaped you; the CUSTOMER (remember them?) determines success or failure.
The only problem with this plan, though, is that you cant compete with a monstrously successful airline like Ryanair by simply lowering fares when your cost base is high. You can compete on fares, but not on cost. This, my dear, has only one outcome in the long view, and Im afraid its not a happy one.
Secondly, Dermot has to somehow massage all those bearded troglodytes of SIPTU into realising that their cash cow needs to transform itself into a racehorse, and in double quick time whilst fending off perfectly reasonable requests from its largest shareholder, or to put it another way, from Ryanair, the organisation who OWNS 30 percent of you. Add to this the interference, visible and not, of a bruised and politically wary Taoiseach, and poor Dermot is reaching for the extra strength aspirin again.
Fundamentals of economics notwithstanding, the really tragic thing to watch from the safety of distance, is the sheer, unbridled stupidity and self-serving hubris with which you continue to pursue the downfall of your airline by means of suicide by union. The BFS base is a reasonable idea. You have nothing, absolutely nothing to say about it by way of complaint. Your fur-lined bubble is maintained status quo anti whilst your airline struggles to survive in a brutal, unforgiving market against highly able competitors who know what theyre doing.
When Aer Lingus fails, CaptKremin, thanks to you and those like you, and it certainly will unless IMPACT are dragged into the 21st century very quickly, you will surely not be surprised to find familiar faces wandering through all the green rubble as Openskies commences in March of next year.
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What a lengthy turd that was!
The splashback must've been of tsunami proportions when it snapped off.
Who's interested in this verbal excretia? The bowel movement of a rubber faced fart in the wind.
Not I.
This is a 'Professional Pilots' website (yes really! See, it says it in the title).
You are neither.
Take yourself off.
The splashback must've been of tsunami proportions when it snapped off.
Who's interested in this verbal excretia? The bowel movement of a rubber faced fart in the wind.
Not I.
This is a 'Professional Pilots' website (yes really! See, it says it in the title).
You are neither.
Take yourself off.
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Semp
Dear Kapt Kremin, the fact that Lingus may not linger much longer seems not to bother you one wee bit. The Camel feller is offering sage advise, people are watching! You are being childish in your replies to him, people are watching.
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Kremin et al, best of luck in a years time when you'll be going through the screening for Kingfisher or Air Deccan etc. You can sit in the crew hotel in Mumbai or Bangalore and reminisce about the good ol days when Aer Lingus was still flying....
The airline is under threat and all you can do is put the blinkers on and worry about your own little corner. Again, no word for the customers, your co-workers etc etc I was talking to one of these co-workers at DUB last night and they are very perturbed and in a word seething with the behaviour of the pilot body in all this.
Just watch out for those Indians, you think Big Bad Dermo is bad, you ain't seen nothing yet baby!!
The airline is under threat and all you can do is put the blinkers on and worry about your own little corner. Again, no word for the customers, your co-workers etc etc I was talking to one of these co-workers at DUB last night and they are very perturbed and in a word seething with the behaviour of the pilot body in all this.
Just watch out for those Indians, you think Big Bad Dermo is bad, you ain't seen nothing yet baby!!
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Forgive me if it's already been made clear - is the recruitment ban still in place? What hope for those who've honoured it? What for those who didn't?
Also, regarding BALPA and easyJet, there are some who think the company have suckered the pilots while BALPA has effectively stood by.
Also, regarding BALPA and easyJet, there are some who think the company have suckered the pilots while BALPA has effectively stood by.
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Originally Posted by OW22
you obviously don't fully realise the implications of militant behaviour like this, you could be threatening the very survival of the airline itself if prolonged action were taken over a simple issue of T's and C's for a base outside this jurisdiction. There are other groups who also have a stakeholding in AL, it's not just the pilots. Have you consulted with the other groups? All your other co-workers in AL to see how they feel about this? You're threatening their livliehoods as well you know...
Today Mr.Mannion has declared war on ALL the staff in Aer Lingus.
He asserts that some of OW22's friends - the 'other staff' - are skiveing off the job, working less than the full shift, claiming overtime they didn't work, and making up to 110K per year while doing it.
Is that not a case of sheer hypocrisy on behalf of OW22's buddy (Mr.Disgusted) then? That while he's been sniping at the pilots, he's swinging the lead in his back office?
Maybe Mr'Disgusted should've gotten his own house in order before opining on the pilots?
Anyhow, reality bites, and Mr.Disgusted - like all the other ALT workers - is now getting a big chunk ripped out of his own ass by Mannion.
Hate to say it, but - TOLD YA SO!
War is imminent. See you on the Roundabout Mr.Disgusted!
Last edited by CaptKremin; 2nd Oct 2007 at 16:17.
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As a retired Pilot I see EI management taking on the unions who have led the EI staff up a cul de sac.
I think it's time for all EI staff to consider the future no matter how you might personally feel towards Mannion and Co.
I remember the time when it took 3 people to change a bulb in the flight deck - one the technician with the philips screwdriver, one electrician who changed the bulb(s) and one from the stores who carried the bulb! Crazy but true.
Times have moved on from this scenario of a bygone era but more cost cutting has to be done to ensure the future viability of EI in what is a cut throat business.
Please everyone, consider carefully what you propose doing and its possible consequences.
Regardless what happens the Union officials will continue to have their reasonably well paid jobs while EI staff are either on strike, or worse, might become 'former' staff of a now defunct airline!
I think it's time for all EI staff to consider the future no matter how you might personally feel towards Mannion and Co.
I remember the time when it took 3 people to change a bulb in the flight deck - one the technician with the philips screwdriver, one electrician who changed the bulb(s) and one from the stores who carried the bulb! Crazy but true.
Times have moved on from this scenario of a bygone era but more cost cutting has to be done to ensure the future viability of EI in what is a cut throat business.
Please everyone, consider carefully what you propose doing and its possible consequences.
Regardless what happens the Union officials will continue to have their reasonably well paid jobs while EI staff are either on strike, or worse, might become 'former' staff of a now defunct airline!
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I totally agree with you.
There are too many hangers on in the back offices. Too many baggage handlers earning 6 figure salaries. Too many Managers who have built their petty departments into enormous white elephants by adding extra ass lickers and pencil pushers at every opportunity. Too many 9-5'ers in a round-the-clock airline. Too much waste on useless crap, like Staff Development centres (mainly serving the 9-5 ers). Too much inefficiency from useless fools who can't even order up a ground power unit, or meet an incoming aircraft on time. Too many subsidised staff canteens for the 9-5'ers to slack off in. Too many lunch breaks. Too many tea breaks. Too many Fag breaks. Too many knock-offs at 4PM on a Friday. Too many subsidised staff parties. Too much heirarchy. Too little accountability. Too many bloody "Grades". Its like the bloody Civil Service. Oh, and don't forget the 'Incentive Plans' for management - up to 187% in bonuses on a 1Million euro salary for Mannion (he calls it a Pay Freeze). Rather TOO MUCH I feel, and a bad example to others as regards cost savings and salary cutbacks.
But the cockpits have 2 pilots - not 6.
And the pilots do their job efficiently - or you'd be reading about the dead bodies.
I hope IALPA stand back now, and let OW22's buddies, Mr.Disgusted and his overpaid underworked cohorts do the jumping-up-and-down on Mannions head.
And I hope OW22's pal Mr.Disgusted (et al) thinks of the poor passengers while doing so. I'm sure OW22 will remind him of his responsibilities.
There are too many hangers on in the back offices. Too many baggage handlers earning 6 figure salaries. Too many Managers who have built their petty departments into enormous white elephants by adding extra ass lickers and pencil pushers at every opportunity. Too many 9-5'ers in a round-the-clock airline. Too much waste on useless crap, like Staff Development centres (mainly serving the 9-5 ers). Too much inefficiency from useless fools who can't even order up a ground power unit, or meet an incoming aircraft on time. Too many subsidised staff canteens for the 9-5'ers to slack off in. Too many lunch breaks. Too many tea breaks. Too many Fag breaks. Too many knock-offs at 4PM on a Friday. Too many subsidised staff parties. Too much heirarchy. Too little accountability. Too many bloody "Grades". Its like the bloody Civil Service. Oh, and don't forget the 'Incentive Plans' for management - up to 187% in bonuses on a 1Million euro salary for Mannion (he calls it a Pay Freeze). Rather TOO MUCH I feel, and a bad example to others as regards cost savings and salary cutbacks.
But the cockpits have 2 pilots - not 6.
And the pilots do their job efficiently - or you'd be reading about the dead bodies.
I hope IALPA stand back now, and let OW22's buddies, Mr.Disgusted and his overpaid underworked cohorts do the jumping-up-and-down on Mannions head.
And I hope OW22's pal Mr.Disgusted (et al) thinks of the poor passengers while doing so. I'm sure OW22 will remind him of his responsibilities.
Last edited by CaptKremin; 2nd Oct 2007 at 17:05.
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There are too many hangers on in the back offices. Too many baggage handlers earning 6 figure salaries. Too many Managers who have built their petty departments into enormous white elephants by adding extra ass lickers and pencil pushers at every opportunity. Too many 9-5'ers in a round-the-clock airline. Too much waste on useless crap, like Staff Development centres (mainly serving the 9-5 ers). Too much inefficiency from useless fools who can't even order up a ground power unit, or meet an incoming aircraft on time. Too many subsidised staff canteens for the 9-5'ers to slack off in. Too many lunch breaks. Too many tea breaks. Too many Fag breaks. Too many knock-offs at 4PM on a Friday. Too many subsidised staff parties. Too much heirarchy. Too little accountability
There's your cost savings in one paragraph. I'm glad someone else sees this waste for what it really is. Well Done Cpt Kremin.
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This is excellent!
I am very impressed with Mr. Mannion.
He is taking on the unions in order to make the airline a profitable one. I had my doubts about him originally, but he's showing he has a backbone.
Well done Dermot, keep it up!!
I am very impressed with Mr. Mannion.
He is taking on the unions in order to make the airline a profitable one. I had my doubts about him originally, but he's showing he has a backbone.
Well done Dermot, keep it up!!
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Ask him about his mate - Mr.Disgusted StaffMember.
Go on, ask him!
Still feeling aloof and well insulated?
Dermo's on a suicide mission now. Must've finally realised he can't shaft the Paddies as easy as he shafted the little brown fella's in Emirates.
Innit embarrassing when the CEO reeks of desperation?
All or nothin' then Dermo.
We'll see you out the door with a swift kick up the arse.
Go on, ask him!
Still feeling aloof and well insulated?
Dermo's on a suicide mission now. Must've finally realised he can't shaft the Paddies as easy as he shafted the little brown fella's in Emirates.
Innit embarrassing when the CEO reeks of desperation?
All or nothin' then Dermo.
We'll see you out the door with a swift kick up the arse.
