Brookfield pay for Ryanair cadets?
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Brookfield pay for Ryanair cadets?
Hi - does anyone know what the block hour rate of pay is for Ryanair cadets who have just finished line training and are sent to Dublin on a Brookfield contract?
I've seen the rate of 85 euros per hour quoted for more experienced FO's on other threads, but is this the rate also for cadets who have 200 hours plus their line training hours?
Thanks
RBA194
I've seen the rate of 85 euros per hour quoted for more experienced FO's on other threads, but is this the rate also for cadets who have 200 hours plus their line training hours?
Thanks
RBA194
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Nope that rate is for guys and gals with more than 1500 hrs JAR25 time. You will be on 60euros (less than 500hrs JAR25) an hr minus 4euro 50 which goes toward your sim biannually. So you'll be on 55.50 an hr. Not bad as it used to be 40.50 for co-pilots of that experience up to last month
You will fly between 80 - 100 hrs per mth in Dublin as well so happy days. Best of luck
You will fly between 80 - 100 hrs per mth in Dublin as well so happy days. Best of luck
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The only bit of advice I would give you is read your training contract, particularly if it says anything about penalties if you refuse a position with ryan air. remember if your contract only refers to a position with ryanair and you are only offered a brookfield contract, then you are not being offered a ryanair position, correct?
Do work out what you will gross for your 900 odd hours on the brookfield and any tie ins. If you were retained (ie ryr contract) at STN you would be on a basic i think of about 13,000GBP before tax and about 900GBP per month tax paid of sector pay(going up to 1800 per month after 6 months) which seems like better money to me!
It may be that you have other options as a type rated 737 pilot with a couple of hundred hours on type. All I am saying is that don't just blindly accept what is offered.....
Do work out what you will gross for your 900 odd hours on the brookfield and any tie ins. If you were retained (ie ryr contract) at STN you would be on a basic i think of about 13,000GBP before tax and about 900GBP per month tax paid of sector pay(going up to 1800 per month after 6 months) which seems like better money to me!
It may be that you have other options as a type rated 737 pilot with a couple of hundred hours on type. All I am saying is that don't just blindly accept what is offered.....
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Based Cadet, DUB: Euro 55,50 per scheduled block hour (psbh)
Non-based Cadet, sent to DUB: 75,50 Euro psbh
After 500 hrs JAR25, add 20 Euro, flat, psbh.
After 1500 hrs JAR25, add another 5 Euro, psbh.
So, after 1,5-2 years you'll average (75x100) 7500 Euro per month.
A perfect month would be just above 11k. ('cause scheduled hrs are more than actual, so flying the max 100, you probably get paid for 110..)
Non-based Cadet, sent to DUB: 75,50 Euro psbh
After 500 hrs JAR25, add 20 Euro, flat, psbh.
After 1500 hrs JAR25, add another 5 Euro, psbh.
So, after 1,5-2 years you'll average (75x100) 7500 Euro per month.
A perfect month would be just above 11k. ('cause scheduled hrs are more than actual, so flying the max 100, you probably get paid for 110..)
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Maybe i'm wrong here,but I think as a contractor in RYR you get payed for scheduled blockhr. So if you're scheduled 10hrs one day and you does it in eg 9.5hrs,you still get payed for 10hrs.At the end of the month you've been chasing the speed-of-sound,flying 100hrs and got payed for 110.
sad sad sad
sad sad sad
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Interesting reading indeed. I'm going to join RYR myself as well, and the way things are looking I'm expecting DUB as Brookfield contractor. I'm a cadet going for the 737 TR Self Sponsored.
Being non UK resident I'm very curious about how you should handle the finances. The way I've understood the situation, Brookfield pays no social fees at all, meaning YOU yourself is responsible for paying taxes and other government fees.
Is it a good idea to become a sole trader in Ireland? How are those of you already on this scheme handling the finances?
And now for the ultimate question: can the self sponsored TR of €28,500 in some way be compensated via tax deductions for a sole trader?
Being non UK resident I'm very curious about how you should handle the finances. The way I've understood the situation, Brookfield pays no social fees at all, meaning YOU yourself is responsible for paying taxes and other government fees.
Is it a good idea to become a sole trader in Ireland? How are those of you already on this scheme handling the finances?
And now for the ultimate question: can the self sponsored TR of €28,500 in some way be compensated via tax deductions for a sole trader?
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There are many contractors within FR that choose to pay nothing in taxes. This is foolish as all the Revenue need to do is to ask Brookfield or FR for a list of contractors and voila they can start hunting you down.
As to how much and where you pay tax you need professional advice from an accountant with experience in the aviation sector. Many factors will need to be taken into account:-
- your residency for tax purposes which can be influenced by where you live & whether you maintain a property elsewhere
- if you set up a company then where will it be based eg: IOM, Channel Islands etc.
Its a very complicated area and from speaking with guys I know in the industry and particularly within FR many people bury their heads in the sand. They might get away with it in the short term but it could just as easily go pear shaped.
As to how much and where you pay tax you need professional advice from an accountant with experience in the aviation sector. Many factors will need to be taken into account:-
- your residency for tax purposes which can be influenced by where you live & whether you maintain a property elsewhere
- if you set up a company then where will it be based eg: IOM, Channel Islands etc.
Its a very complicated area and from speaking with guys I know in the industry and particularly within FR many people bury their heads in the sand. They might get away with it in the short term but it could just as easily go pear shaped.
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Irish Tax
Disclaimer: I am a college student. Not a qualified accountant in any way. Do not rely on the following. it is just something i thought may be of some help to you if you are unfamiliar with the Irish tax system.
If you are based in DUB or SNN you are likely to be irish resident.
To check if you are so resident you look at whether you satisfy the following tests:
1. Are you resident in the country for 30 days or more in the tax year, if so go to test two.
2. Are you resident in the country for 183 days or more in the tax year, if so you are resident in that tax year. If not:
3. Are you resident in the country for an aggregate of 280 days or more in the tax year and preceding tax year, if so you are resident.
You are resident in the country on a day if present in the state at midnight on that day.
So if you are flying for FR based out of Dub or Snn on 5on 4 off or whatever you work you are bound to be caught by the residency rules. Which means you are liable for income tax- you need to consider your domicile now- which is a legal term. But at a very high level you may assume this is your country you are born in.
So if Irish resident and irish domiciled(working based in dub/snn and born in ireland) taxed on your worldwide income. Every cent you earn, be it employment income, dividends, rent anything.
If say, Irish resident but UK domiciled, (say an english born person working for FR out of DUB/SNN) you are liable to irish income tax on the remittance basis. this means you are liable to irish income tax on any income arising in ireland or the UK and income remitted to ireland from outside of ireland and the uk. which means income earned from your flying will be liable to irish tax.
For people considering whether to set up as a sole trader/contractor type arrangement I'd advise consulting a tax expert but I can't imagine you can make it work.
Revenue consider such factors as:
1. Terms of the contract, i.e if it provides for sick pay, holiday pay, pension entitlements, you are likely to be an employee.
2. Degree of integration of the person into the organization to which you are providing services. If you're working 5 on 4 off you're pretty much very well integrated.
3. Whether you provide your own helpers? If you do, likely self employed, if not, employee.
4. Whether you provide your own equipment. You FR guys sound like you do, bar the aircraft!
5. The degree of control exercised over the individual. I think this is an important test. Basically I'm presuming Fr give you a roster of what flights you are to operate and you are not free to pick and choose the days you want to work and that in effect, you are an employee as they 'control' you rather than engage you from time to time as a contractor.
6. the degree of responsibility for investment and management. (that falls on you in your 'self employed trade') not likely to be much if FR are your only contract.
7. degree of financial risk taken. (in running your trade, probably huge in getting an fATPL then TR then working as a cadet on buttons for 6 months as seems to be the case)
8. The opportunity for you to profit from sound management. (i think you'd fall down here too because basically not matter how well you manage your trade all you're going to get is what Brookfields pay you per hour.)
Obviously it's up to the Revenue to decide whether you are an employee or a self employed/Company. But then in company you have a surcharge on closely held companies, you need to pay yourself a dividend and that's income liable to income tax after having been liable to corporation tax.
I'd recomment seeking the advice of an accountant.
Brookfields contracts may be constructed specifically for tax reasons but then the revenue are likely to look for substance over form. I'd gamble that were they to look at it, Revenue would deem most to be employees and liable to irish income tax.
If people aren't declaring tax, under declaring they could get burned down the line. Interest and penalties accrue from when the tax should have been paid. So even if your caught 10 years later, it could be quite punitive. Usually in tax settlemtns interest and penalties far outweight the original tax liability.
I think it's best to be honest. By all means do your best to minimise your liability, but stay within the confines of the law. Seek professional advice.
An hour or two with a good tax accountant would be money well spent if it saves you tax off your bill, or prevents you getting burned later.
It's a bit like getting the class 1 before you train.
If you are based in DUB or SNN you are likely to be irish resident.
To check if you are so resident you look at whether you satisfy the following tests:
1. Are you resident in the country for 30 days or more in the tax year, if so go to test two.
2. Are you resident in the country for 183 days or more in the tax year, if so you are resident in that tax year. If not:
3. Are you resident in the country for an aggregate of 280 days or more in the tax year and preceding tax year, if so you are resident.
You are resident in the country on a day if present in the state at midnight on that day.
So if you are flying for FR based out of Dub or Snn on 5on 4 off or whatever you work you are bound to be caught by the residency rules. Which means you are liable for income tax- you need to consider your domicile now- which is a legal term. But at a very high level you may assume this is your country you are born in.
So if Irish resident and irish domiciled(working based in dub/snn and born in ireland) taxed on your worldwide income. Every cent you earn, be it employment income, dividends, rent anything.
If say, Irish resident but UK domiciled, (say an english born person working for FR out of DUB/SNN) you are liable to irish income tax on the remittance basis. this means you are liable to irish income tax on any income arising in ireland or the UK and income remitted to ireland from outside of ireland and the uk. which means income earned from your flying will be liable to irish tax.
For people considering whether to set up as a sole trader/contractor type arrangement I'd advise consulting a tax expert but I can't imagine you can make it work.
Revenue consider such factors as:
1. Terms of the contract, i.e if it provides for sick pay, holiday pay, pension entitlements, you are likely to be an employee.
2. Degree of integration of the person into the organization to which you are providing services. If you're working 5 on 4 off you're pretty much very well integrated.
3. Whether you provide your own helpers? If you do, likely self employed, if not, employee.
4. Whether you provide your own equipment. You FR guys sound like you do, bar the aircraft!
5. The degree of control exercised over the individual. I think this is an important test. Basically I'm presuming Fr give you a roster of what flights you are to operate and you are not free to pick and choose the days you want to work and that in effect, you are an employee as they 'control' you rather than engage you from time to time as a contractor.
6. the degree of responsibility for investment and management. (that falls on you in your 'self employed trade') not likely to be much if FR are your only contract.
7. degree of financial risk taken. (in running your trade, probably huge in getting an fATPL then TR then working as a cadet on buttons for 6 months as seems to be the case)
8. The opportunity for you to profit from sound management. (i think you'd fall down here too because basically not matter how well you manage your trade all you're going to get is what Brookfields pay you per hour.)
Obviously it's up to the Revenue to decide whether you are an employee or a self employed/Company. But then in company you have a surcharge on closely held companies, you need to pay yourself a dividend and that's income liable to income tax after having been liable to corporation tax.
I'd recomment seeking the advice of an accountant.
Brookfields contracts may be constructed specifically for tax reasons but then the revenue are likely to look for substance over form. I'd gamble that were they to look at it, Revenue would deem most to be employees and liable to irish income tax.
If people aren't declaring tax, under declaring they could get burned down the line. Interest and penalties accrue from when the tax should have been paid. So even if your caught 10 years later, it could be quite punitive. Usually in tax settlemtns interest and penalties far outweight the original tax liability.
I think it's best to be honest. By all means do your best to minimise your liability, but stay within the confines of the law. Seek professional advice.
An hour or two with a good tax accountant would be money well spent if it saves you tax off your bill, or prevents you getting burned later.
It's a bit like getting the class 1 before you train.
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slightly off the subject of this thread, but what are the chances of shifting bases with ryan air? I understand that at the mo, cadets are being put on a brookfields contract after finishing line training and being based in dublin, right? What are the chances of switching bases from dublin a few months down the line, to say stansted, or luton?
or do you have to be based at dublin if u are on a brookfields?
Also, anyone got any idea wot u get if they give u a ryanair contract after line training? What bases might they send u to if that occurs?
or do you have to be based at dublin if u are on a brookfields?
Also, anyone got any idea wot u get if they give u a ryanair contract after line training? What bases might they send u to if that occurs?
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Well put Vin Diesel.
All you contractor fools who think they are super-clever and on a "great deal", you're gonna get done eventually. The UK revenue are already looking too close for your comfort. Then when you're coughing up all the unpaid taxes, you can reflect on how you managed to not only screw yourself, but also your profession, career and future. Micko's laughing at you. Why not tell him to shove it, maintain your dignity, self-respect and future prospects?
And spare me the sanctimonious "i have no choice" crap. Of course you have a choice, so make a conscious choice to preserve your future.
All you contractor fools who think they are super-clever and on a "great deal", you're gonna get done eventually. The UK revenue are already looking too close for your comfort. Then when you're coughing up all the unpaid taxes, you can reflect on how you managed to not only screw yourself, but also your profession, career and future. Micko's laughing at you. Why not tell him to shove it, maintain your dignity, self-respect and future prospects?
And spare me the sanctimonious "i have no choice" crap. Of course you have a choice, so make a conscious choice to preserve your future.
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Yeah Alex, clearly as you don't agree me, I must be very challenged 
The most challenged however are those who think they can avoid paying any tax on a brookfield contract.
The most challenged however are those who think they can avoid paying any tax on a brookfield contract.
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taxes
Apologies didnt really read through and hadnt realised u were talking about people not paying taxes 
. Thought u were talking about people taking a brookfield contract in general, which in my opinion is not that bad of a deal.
I do agree that the people not paying taxes will eventually screw themselves over, although there are several legal loop holes that one can use to save money on a self employed contract. Several costs (petrol, cell phone etc) that would usually not be tax free may be claimed as being involved in your profession and hence the tax paid on these items may be claimed back at the end of the financial year.
Not really 100% morally correct... but definately very convinient and legal.
. Thought u were talking about people taking a brookfield contract in general, which in my opinion is not that bad of a deal. I do agree that the people not paying taxes will eventually screw themselves over, although there are several legal loop holes that one can use to save money on a self employed contract. Several costs (petrol, cell phone etc) that would usually not be tax free may be claimed as being involved in your profession and hence the tax paid on these items may be claimed back at the end of the financial year.
Not really 100% morally correct... but definately very convinient and legal.
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In reality the Brookfield deal is not that great.
and
It'll probably remain unchanged for the next 5 years like the previous BK deal. So effectively reduces due to inflation.
The only way to improve conditions at FR, is to fight for a permanent contract, and make a stand. All contract pilots based in Ireland are entitled to permanent contracts.
and
It'll probably remain unchanged for the next 5 years like the previous BK deal. So effectively reduces due to inflation.
The only way to improve conditions at FR, is to fight for a permanent contract, and make a stand. All contract pilots based in Ireland are entitled to permanent contracts.
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In reality the Brookfield deal is not that great.
The only way to improve conditions at FR, is to fight for a permanent contract, and make a stand.
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Tax and Death, you can't avoid them.
As has been mentioned elsewhere, there are ways of reducing, slightly, your liability to taxes by registering as a limited company. However, the fact that you are a national of one country, employed by a company with its headquaters in another country and working in a third country, even if you are a resident of yet another country, you are liable for tax. There is no escape. If you have been working under such a regime for any length of time believing that you have been getting away with it then prepare yourselves for a shock. Brookfield and other agencies have been recently investigated and the storm troopers of the Customs and Excise are gathering.
It is only a matter of time.
The penalties for evading tax can amount to more then the unpaid tax. There is no appeal.
I speak from experience. I too thought I was being oh so clever by doing just that. I am still paying the arrears, twelve years later.
No matter where you look for a legal loophole, you will not find one. Non-domiciled, non-resident, legal alien, non-EU citizen; forget them.
Where you earn the majority of your income is where you MUST pay your taxes. This is the EU law and I am afraid we are working and operating within the EU. If RYR or Brookfield try to tell you differently then they are misleading you.
It is only a matter of time.
The penalties for evading tax can amount to more then the unpaid tax. There is no appeal.
I speak from experience. I too thought I was being oh so clever by doing just that. I am still paying the arrears, twelve years later.
No matter where you look for a legal loophole, you will not find one. Non-domiciled, non-resident, legal alien, non-EU citizen; forget them.
Where you earn the majority of your income is where you MUST pay your taxes. This is the EU law and I am afraid we are working and operating within the EU. If RYR or Brookfield try to tell you differently then they are misleading you.
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When do you know?
When do you find out which contract you'll be offered, is it made clear before you start or mentioned in the training contract and are there any factors that determine whether you are offered Ryanair or Brookfield?