Time to Command at First Choice?
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Time to Command at First Choice?
Anyone know what the average time to command is with First Choice? PPJN suggests 8 years, sounds a little excessive in the current aviation climate? If correct, I guess most co-pilots have the hours/grades for the seat change and are waiting on seniority?
I'm afraid that it will only get worse after any merger with TUI. Even with the merger being cancelled by the EC competition authorities we would still expect to revert to merging with Thomas Cook, which was the original intention so either way commands are likely to be slow.
If you're desparate for the left hand seat the LoCo's are the only way to go.
If you're desparate for the left hand seat the LoCo's are the only way to go.
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I remember reading in one of our newsletters last year that the average wait for the last batch of commands (about 20) was 8 1/2 years. This year there are 5 command vacancies I think, with the candidates having waited a similar time.
BB, if the deal with TUI is blocked I think all mergers are off amongst the "big four".
Regards.
BB, if the deal with TUI is blocked I think all mergers are off amongst the "big four".
Regards.
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Do not get the wrong message from my first post. As I said, the time to the left hand seat was one of many reasons for my decision to leave FCA for EZY. I have other personal and geographical reasons for the move. FCA has been a good company to work for, and has great future prospects should the merger with TUI succeed. Undoubtably there will be a long period of uncertainty as seniority lists etc. are rationalised.
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The time to command after the merger won't get longer. I would suggest there will be plently of opportunities for the F/O's. I believe ThomsonFly have been promoting plenty of their people over the last couple of years. However, keep in mind the retirement age has recently gone up to 65.
If the merger doesnt go through, FCA will not be merging with TCX/MYT. If FCA/TUI is blocked why would FCA then merge (be allowed to) with TXC/MYT? Doesnt make any sense.
8 years is a long time in aviation, plenty will change.
If the merger doesnt go through, FCA will not be merging with TCX/MYT. If FCA/TUI is blocked why would FCA then merge (be allowed to) with TXC/MYT? Doesnt make any sense.
8 years is a long time in aviation, plenty will change.
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At the moment you could get a command within 12 months at TUI. However that is the exception rather than the norm.
We will be starting MFF (mixed fleet Flying) this summer with a gradual introdution across the bases. I believe LTN and LGW are first with pilots flying either 737NG/757 or 757/767. (767/737 has not yet been approved).
This will mean that the more senior F/O's that have been holding out for a 757/767 command will probably change their bid.
IF the merger with First Choice goes ahead (and i don't see why it should fail), and IF they merge they seniorty lists then it will be Thomson Pilots who would lose out. Over half of Thomson pilots have joined since Jan 2003. There are approx 750 pilots on the list, (i'm around 330 joining in Feb 2003).
My suggestion to Thomson pilots is get a bid in for command now (next course isn't until Oct). Once Firct Choice are on board they me thinks the list will get longer (from the middle, technically 'jumping' the queue).
All this is of course going to be dealt with by BALPA over the coming months.
BB
We will be starting MFF (mixed fleet Flying) this summer with a gradual introdution across the bases. I believe LTN and LGW are first with pilots flying either 737NG/757 or 757/767. (767/737 has not yet been approved).
This will mean that the more senior F/O's that have been holding out for a 757/767 command will probably change their bid.
IF the merger with First Choice goes ahead (and i don't see why it should fail), and IF they merge they seniorty lists then it will be Thomson Pilots who would lose out. Over half of Thomson pilots have joined since Jan 2003. There are approx 750 pilots on the list, (i'm around 330 joining in Feb 2003).
My suggestion to Thomson pilots is get a bid in for command now (next course isn't until Oct). Once Firct Choice are on board they me thinks the list will get longer (from the middle, technically 'jumping' the queue).
All this is of course going to be dealt with by BALPA over the coming months.
BB
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During the early days of the T-fly Coventry operation (it was a separate entity at the time) there were a few guys promoted in their first year. There’s currently a Command Course running on the 737 (as BB says, fleet makes little difference in T-fly these days), these pilots have been here around two years.
I guess it all depends how the seniority lists are (if?) merged in the new airline, one of many issues for BALPA to sort. The merger could well improve FC co-pilot prospects providing the new airline continues to grow, which I’m sure it will. Roughly what percentage of FC co-pilots have a seniority of say greater than 3 years and have in excess of 3000 hours?
I guess it all depends how the seniority lists are (if?) merged in the new airline, one of many issues for BALPA to sort. The merger could well improve FC co-pilot prospects providing the new airline continues to grow, which I’m sure it will. Roughly what percentage of FC co-pilots have a seniority of say greater than 3 years and have in excess of 3000 hours?
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Mad Russian + Blue Baron,
There are many FO's at FCA who are well experienced, been with the company 5-10 years, lots of experience before they even joined FCA. Turn over is fairly low and hardly any Captains leave. But over the last couple of years there are also alot of new joiners with less experience...cadets being some of them.
As a Captain I hope the good guys from both companies get their chance. Some of them no doubt couldve moved on to get a command years ago.....loyalty, time served, hard work I hope is worth something.
There are many FO's at FCA who are well experienced, been with the company 5-10 years, lots of experience before they even joined FCA. Turn over is fairly low and hardly any Captains leave. But over the last couple of years there are also alot of new joiners with less experience...cadets being some of them.
As a Captain I hope the good guys from both companies get their chance. Some of them no doubt couldve moved on to get a command years ago.....loyalty, time served, hard work I hope is worth something.
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Hi aileron,
I've just been reading Bill Bryson's popular science book, perhaps you should drop him a line 'cos I recon that "loyalty, time served, hard work", if they are worth anything to airline management, the size or value of these laudable traits would make a fraction of a gnat's thinggy (the smallest known object) look enormous. We may have a new discovery!
For what it's worth, I'm putting my faith in the CC's of both companies and I hope that the (rumoured) 30% or so FCA pilots and the 12% or so T-fly non BALPA pilots, finally put their hands in their pockets, cough up their 1% (tax deductable) and join.
All the best,
Fred.
I've just been reading Bill Bryson's popular science book, perhaps you should drop him a line 'cos I recon that "loyalty, time served, hard work", if they are worth anything to airline management, the size or value of these laudable traits would make a fraction of a gnat's thinggy (the smallest known object) look enormous. We may have a new discovery!
For what it's worth, I'm putting my faith in the CC's of both companies and I hope that the (rumoured) 30% or so FCA pilots and the 12% or so T-fly non BALPA pilots, finally put their hands in their pockets, cough up their 1% (tax deductable) and join.
All the best,
Fred.
Too many BB's on this forum...only joking!
My comment about TCX and FCA reverting to plan A and us seeing our mainstream division sold to them holds as it would primarily be a UK matter and not one that would affect the European market. We all accept that the UK market needs rationalisation and that our short haul operation is heading for extinction under the current boards obsession with long haul and niche market operation.
I think a proposed reversion to the TCX/FCA mainstream merger would be accepted by the UK government and that is what Peter Long hopes for all along. That said, I'm sure he'll be equally chuffed to head up the new TUI travel.
Senior BB.
My comment about TCX and FCA reverting to plan A and us seeing our mainstream division sold to them holds as it would primarily be a UK matter and not one that would affect the European market. We all accept that the UK market needs rationalisation and that our short haul operation is heading for extinction under the current boards obsession with long haul and niche market operation.
I think a proposed reversion to the TCX/FCA mainstream merger would be accepted by the UK government and that is what Peter Long hopes for all along. That said, I'm sure he'll be equally chuffed to head up the new TUI travel.
Senior BB.
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to quote from another thread re time to command after merger...
TUI Chaps
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Have now talked to quite a few Thomson Flyers in the last week, a couple of engineers and 5 pilots. All positive about the possible merger, all looking forward to getting rid of their senior management!! Consensus seems to be that they have lost their direction in the last few years.
Like Pete found in the frozen North, they are a good bunch with very similar values to ourselves. One v. interesting observation from a particular LGW Captain, they are short of potential Captains, (hence the direct entry commands). Prospects for some of our SFOs look very good, providing fleet sizes are not drastically cut.
TUI Chaps
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have now talked to quite a few Thomson Flyers in the last week, a couple of engineers and 5 pilots. All positive about the possible merger, all looking forward to getting rid of their senior management!! Consensus seems to be that they have lost their direction in the last few years.
Like Pete found in the frozen North, they are a good bunch with very similar values to ourselves. One v. interesting observation from a particular LGW Captain, they are short of potential Captains, (hence the direct entry commands). Prospects for some of our SFOs look very good, providing fleet sizes are not drastically cut.
