Brookfield-Ryanair rates of pay
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: United Kingdom
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"but if it always was late by say the 17th, then surly you just work on 17th as your pay day and if it comes early hey ho?
after all surly pilots are cleaver people and have a little cash reserve and dont run out the day before pay day!!! thats a pretty weak problem in the scheme of things."
David, I find that statement amazing! You obviously are not running your company properly. What your saying is like going into a shop and buying something, and then saying, "the money will turn up in your account at some point, but I am taking my TV now thanks". If you were a builder working on a job you wouldn't do all the work on someone's house and without getting any money in advance, and you certainly wouldn't continue working on a project where the person paying you is late. You would stop working until payment is received.
This is a right you have, and you can excercise. The problem is when you finally do get paid, (well after the contract date states - Brookfield breaching contract), and you excercise the right as a company to charge and impose interest and fines on late payments, then you might find there is no requirement for your services anymore, or you spend the rest of your BRK/FR job on standby. This may not be particularly fair, (and in theory you can work for someone else during this time as long as you can make it to the airport IF called within the agreed hour), but it does happen and you dont have a leg to stand on. The contract says you should "expect" a certain number of standby days, as shown rescently they can give you as many as they want. Stansted based pilots have been working as little as 6-8 days per month.
And don't think you fall into the same catagorey as employed pilots as where if they were to employ anyone to do your job after letting you go, then you can sue on unfair dismisal.
Oh, and while we are on the subject of not getting paid until Ryanair have Paid Brookfield, that just doesn't cut it. You are not employed by Ryanair, and therefore when they pay Brookfield is nothing to do with you. You are contracted to be paid by BRK, and therefore if they are late paying, then they are resposible. The rules on where responsability and liability for none payment lie are very clear.
To make it simple, you get paid late by work, and you dont pay your phone bill. Who's problem is it? You cant tell the phone people, "Sorry, work didnt pay me". They will just cut you off until you pay. It is your responsibility to pay the bill as your name is on the contract with the phone company. Exactly the same as BRK and you.
after all surly pilots are cleaver people and have a little cash reserve and dont run out the day before pay day!!! thats a pretty weak problem in the scheme of things."
David, I find that statement amazing! You obviously are not running your company properly. What your saying is like going into a shop and buying something, and then saying, "the money will turn up in your account at some point, but I am taking my TV now thanks". If you were a builder working on a job you wouldn't do all the work on someone's house and without getting any money in advance, and you certainly wouldn't continue working on a project where the person paying you is late. You would stop working until payment is received.
This is a right you have, and you can excercise. The problem is when you finally do get paid, (well after the contract date states - Brookfield breaching contract), and you excercise the right as a company to charge and impose interest and fines on late payments, then you might find there is no requirement for your services anymore, or you spend the rest of your BRK/FR job on standby. This may not be particularly fair, (and in theory you can work for someone else during this time as long as you can make it to the airport IF called within the agreed hour), but it does happen and you dont have a leg to stand on. The contract says you should "expect" a certain number of standby days, as shown rescently they can give you as many as they want. Stansted based pilots have been working as little as 6-8 days per month.
And don't think you fall into the same catagorey as employed pilots as where if they were to employ anyone to do your job after letting you go, then you can sue on unfair dismisal.
Oh, and while we are on the subject of not getting paid until Ryanair have Paid Brookfield, that just doesn't cut it. You are not employed by Ryanair, and therefore when they pay Brookfield is nothing to do with you. You are contracted to be paid by BRK, and therefore if they are late paying, then they are resposible. The rules on where responsability and liability for none payment lie are very clear.
To make it simple, you get paid late by work, and you dont pay your phone bill. Who's problem is it? You cant tell the phone people, "Sorry, work didnt pay me". They will just cut you off until you pay. It is your responsibility to pay the bill as your name is on the contract with the phone company. Exactly the same as BRK and you.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: england
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everything you say might well be true and i am pretty sure it is,,,, however,, cant say I over care,,,,, I have been paid on the 12th or 13th of every month,,, yes I am only working 9days myself this month so not a whole lot, but still taking home more than a mate of mine flying cargo for much more hours than me and he has no toilet on board! wee's in a bag.
grand scheme of things its still a good job,,, terms and conditions are maybe not as good as other airlines,, but I am well paid,, i have a rock solid rosta,, safe aircraft, work with great people, and its not really hard work at FL380 swapping radio freq every 25mins or so.
again, have a cash reserve and enjoy the Flight Levels.
grand scheme of things its still a good job,,, terms and conditions are maybe not as good as other airlines,, but I am well paid,, i have a rock solid rosta,, safe aircraft, work with great people, and its not really hard work at FL380 swapping radio freq every 25mins or so.
again, have a cash reserve and enjoy the Flight Levels.
Join Date: Jan 2005
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What your saying is like going into a shop and buying something, and then saying, "the money will turn up in your account at some point, but I am taking my TV now thanks".
For the record, I am a Brookfield Pilot at Stansted. I am exceptionally satisfied with their service. I have never been paid more than a day late, and I am clever enough to realise that if I put 10% of my monthly pay away each month, not only do I benefit from the interest, but I don't starve on my month off. I'm also sensible enough to setup my bills so they come out on the 20th so if there is a cockup, my bank don't come knocking on my door. It's called common sense.
December was a quiet month, but now the flying will again increase, especially since we have a recruitment freeze, a few pilots are looking at EI out of LGW, and some are going to Jet2 for temporary summer work (they must be mad). I am on the higher BRK pay (75E an hour) which gives me close to £65,000 a year.
Frankly, the diatribe posted about Ryanair and Brookfield on PPrune is absolutely terrible. 90% of pilots I speak to DONT use this site for work related discussion because they'll get shouted down by the non believers. Heaven forbid if people actually praised Ryanair! Guy above has the right priorities.
Money on Time, Aeroplanes don't break, Excellent Training and Checking, Good Captains and a stable roster. I don't care if my company doesn't give me a 4000 Calorie meal for lunch, it's 2009 and my resolution is to lose weight anyway.
Horgy
Join Date: Mar 2007
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MrHorgy = 
Couldnt agree more.stable roster best in the business.solid,if not amazing,pay(you will become well off after training debts paid off).quick enough command and other promotion possibilites if your sfi/tri/tre inclined or line training capt.(none of this 'wait 12 years for left hand seat' seniority bolix).being in your own bed every night should not be dismissed - crucial in fact.excellent training department.lovely airplanes.and the chance of being based very close to your actual home-given the number of bases around europe.jumpseat policy for getting home,going to base or sim is excellent - unlike easyjet.
BRK are dodgy enough alright but they always pay on the 12/13 of the month.and i like all the expenses you can offset!besides if you stay long enough im sure a ryr contract will eventually be granted.
Couldnt agree more.stable roster best in the business.solid,if not amazing,pay(you will become well off after training debts paid off).quick enough command and other promotion possibilites if your sfi/tri/tre inclined or line training capt.(none of this 'wait 12 years for left hand seat' seniority bolix).being in your own bed every night should not be dismissed - crucial in fact.excellent training department.lovely airplanes.and the chance of being based very close to your actual home-given the number of bases around europe.jumpseat policy for getting home,going to base or sim is excellent - unlike easyjet.
BRK are dodgy enough alright but they always pay on the 12/13 of the month.and i like all the expenses you can offset!besides if you stay long enough im sure a ryr contract will eventually be granted.
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Can I pose a question?
Say I am a brookfield contractor and by the time I am 9 or 10months through the flying year I use up nearly all my flying hours for that year (900) does that mean I am grounded for he next few months and earn no salary fo those 2-3 months?
Aso can anyone give a rough estimate of the monthly earnings of a new cadet (<500hours) and how long wll it usually take to ge on the next payscale (>500 hours) and what wuld rough monthly earnings be then afer tax
Say I am a brookfield contractor and by the time I am 9 or 10months through the flying year I use up nearly all my flying hours for that year (900) does that mean I am grounded for he next few months and earn no salary fo those 2-3 months?
Aso can anyone give a rough estimate of the monthly earnings of a new cadet (<500hours) and how long wll it usually take to ge on the next payscale (>500 hours) and what wuld rough monthly earnings be then afer tax
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Interesting question Half Pint.
Rate now E125, used to be E135.
New contracts being signed so as to have Brookfield payments through your own Limited Company in Ireland, the tricky tax etc being handled by a few select accountancy agancies (3% for their trouble, which seems fair enough).
Incidently i hear that upgraded F/Os may be required to sign a permanent contract in which case they can expect to earn significantly less if in UK where tax acrobatics with HMRC are frowned upon. If based in europe then tax is deducted in Ireland.
A couple of gotchas if promoted and permanent, 10% off basic and duty pay for 1 year with an additional 10% both off if moving base.
You may well earn less than the Brookfield F/O next to you - how ****** up is that?
JAR25 time doescount towards the total for pay rates.
Rate now E125, used to be E135.
New contracts being signed so as to have Brookfield payments through your own Limited Company in Ireland, the tricky tax etc being handled by a few select accountancy agancies (3% for their trouble, which seems fair enough).
Incidently i hear that upgraded F/Os may be required to sign a permanent contract in which case they can expect to earn significantly less if in UK where tax acrobatics with HMRC are frowned upon. If based in europe then tax is deducted in Ireland.
A couple of gotchas if promoted and permanent, 10% off basic and duty pay for 1 year with an additional 10% both off if moving base.
You may well earn less than the Brookfield F/O next to you - how ****** up is that?
JAR25 time doescount towards the total for pay rates.
Join Date: May 2005
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Thanks El Sid. I'd heard that they were offering 90 euros/hr; if this turns out to be true (90 euros) then they are seriously overestimating capts willingness to accept such a watered down contract. There are other much better opportunities out there even in this market. They need DECs at the moment and should offer the market rate or be disappointed with the lack of response.
Last edited by pint'alfempty; 22nd Nov 2009 at 08:56.
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Half Pint
That news does not even slightly surprise me, it's a Buyers' Market at the moment.
Even so, they never achieve the crewing levels for Capts that they need so maybe some decline the generous offer?
They seem to know just what the market will stand and offer what they can get away with - i guess that's why they are all millionaires in Dublin management!
That news does not even slightly surprise me, it's a Buyers' Market at the moment.
Even so, they never achieve the crewing levels for Capts that they need so maybe some decline the generous offer?
They seem to know just what the market will stand and offer what they can get away with - i guess that's why they are all millionaires in Dublin management!
Join Date: Jun 2004
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check CAA website, JAR 25 is transport jet aircraft therefore 0>9999999999999999hrs SEP, MEP, even turbo prop will not count to the 500hrs required to jump to the next pay bracket.
kempus
kempus
Perhaps you shoud research the requirements for JAR 25 certification?
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yeah not strictly true but I think the point that was made that if you had 1500hrs on sep of light twin it would not count. Nor would JAR 23 or 29 type aircraft. That was the point I was making but nice of you to take almost a year to bring it up! Tried the new easa website for finding stuff?? ouch!
