Pilots next for Willie Walsh
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Pilots next for Willie Walsh
So an agreement has been reached between BA and Bassa, which i'm sure each side will claim as their own victory! The reality is that BA have achieved the outcome (apart from the chaos) they so desired, and Bassa in my view have been made weaker. Is this good news for other groups/unions within the company?
Well i think not. The pilots are due to vote on the pension, with the Balpa reps having worked hard, giving the impression that this was/is the best deal available. They may be right, and no doubt that if the majority did vote for a strike, then WW would be prepared to take them on. It does seem however that the the majority of pilots will accept the deal proposed to them by Balpa; however i'm sure that if one was to have asked the pilots to accept this deal a few months ago, the majority would have said no!!!
So what has changed between now and a few months ago. Well numerous meeting between the company and balpa, with the company saying this is all that is on the table, analysis by the actuaries, balpa getting expert advise etc. The reality is however that Balpa have been convinced that this is all that can be afforded by the company.
Let us look a year down the line. WW now wants to cut more costs, and make flight operations more efficient. He knows that he's already managed to deal with one of the biggest issues with the pilots (pensions) without even a sniff of a strike (even though when the issue first came about the majority were saying they would vote for a strike). He now decides to attack bidline rules. His basis is cost saving, and how important it is in this difficult environment to be efficient, and that modifying bidline is essential in ensuring that we have the correct number of pilots. I wonder if it'll be the same uproar as with the pensions, but then after meetings between Balpa and the company, there will be some middle ground and realisation that this is the reality. Does anyone really think there be a vote for a strike????
Well i think not. The pilots are due to vote on the pension, with the Balpa reps having worked hard, giving the impression that this was/is the best deal available. They may be right, and no doubt that if the majority did vote for a strike, then WW would be prepared to take them on. It does seem however that the the majority of pilots will accept the deal proposed to them by Balpa; however i'm sure that if one was to have asked the pilots to accept this deal a few months ago, the majority would have said no!!!
So what has changed between now and a few months ago. Well numerous meeting between the company and balpa, with the company saying this is all that is on the table, analysis by the actuaries, balpa getting expert advise etc. The reality is however that Balpa have been convinced that this is all that can be afforded by the company.
Let us look a year down the line. WW now wants to cut more costs, and make flight operations more efficient. He knows that he's already managed to deal with one of the biggest issues with the pilots (pensions) without even a sniff of a strike (even though when the issue first came about the majority were saying they would vote for a strike). He now decides to attack bidline rules. His basis is cost saving, and how important it is in this difficult environment to be efficient, and that modifying bidline is essential in ensuring that we have the correct number of pilots. I wonder if it'll be the same uproar as with the pensions, but then after meetings between Balpa and the company, there will be some middle ground and realisation that this is the reality. Does anyone really think there be a vote for a strike????
Controversial, moi?
In the past 12+ years BALPA has never even had to threaten a ballot. Why? Because pilots and the BALPA leadership are intelligent enough to analyse any proposals carefully and act accordingly. In short we are neither short sighted nor suicidal.
I have no doubt Bidline rules will be modified, they have been on a regular basis since their introduction, and I can also think of areas that will come under scrutiny and will no doubt change in the fullness of time. What you won't see is pilots setting off half-cocked over a raft of non-issues for some obscure undisclosed political reason.
If a matter was serious enough and the management was short sighted enough not to listen and engage with probably its most loyal and long term group of employees then watch this space.
BALPA and the BA management have been astute enough to avoid that situation during the most difficult negotiations seen in recent memory (pensions) and I have little doubt that sensible situation will continue.
You answer your own question and conveniently overlook the fact that only approximately 70% of the pension everybody was expecting would have been able to have been paid anyway because of the dire funding crisis.
It should be noted from previous posts that it was said that the GMB and BASSA were posturing over the proposed pension deal. That has now been partially proven, keep watching.
If I was of suspicious mind I would have thought that your post was attemting to stir up dissent where non existed before.
I have no doubt Bidline rules will be modified, they have been on a regular basis since their introduction, and I can also think of areas that will come under scrutiny and will no doubt change in the fullness of time. What you won't see is pilots setting off half-cocked over a raft of non-issues for some obscure undisclosed political reason.
If a matter was serious enough and the management was short sighted enough not to listen and engage with probably its most loyal and long term group of employees then watch this space.
BALPA and the BA management have been astute enough to avoid that situation during the most difficult negotiations seen in recent memory (pensions) and I have little doubt that sensible situation will continue.
So what has changed between now and a few months ago. Well numerous meeting between the company and balpa, with the company saying this is all that is on the table, analysis by the actuaries, balpa getting expert advise[sic] etc. The reality is however that Balpa have been convinced that this is all that can be afforded by the company.
It should be noted from previous posts that it was said that the GMB and BASSA were posturing over the proposed pension deal. That has now been partially proven, keep watching.
If I was of suspicious mind I would have thought that your post was attemting to stir up dissent where non existed before.
Last edited by M.Mouse; 30th Jan 2007 at 00:44.
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If I was of suspicious mind I would have thought that your post was attemting to stir up dissent where non existed before.
The reality is , whether unreasonable or not, BA don't care. If they believe they can get away with it they will. True perhaps that Balpa have never had to threaten a strike in 20+years, but the past has no relevance now.
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He's taken on a militant but disorganised union with no clear motives for a strike which was voted for by gullible and ill-informed members who phoned in sick in their hundreds. He knew BASSA couldn't deliver a result for their members which is why he called their bluff.
In contrast, BALPA led a focussed and well researched single issue campaign. WW knew they could deliver an effective strike, not a sick-out and not a "vote yes but I mean no" campaign. That is why the pension lump sum went from £500M to £800M and the annual payments went from £250M to £280M. WW could wipe away Bidline and still wouldn't save that sort of cash. He was willing to cough up that sort of cash to pay off the pension deficit because he knows the pilots are the only group that have the balls, commitment and financial resources to deliver a prolonged and crippling strike to BA. Thats why the man who only consults negotiates with us.
In contrast, BALPA led a focussed and well researched single issue campaign. WW knew they could deliver an effective strike, not a sick-out and not a "vote yes but I mean no" campaign. That is why the pension lump sum went from £500M to £800M and the annual payments went from £250M to £280M. WW could wipe away Bidline and still wouldn't save that sort of cash. He was willing to cough up that sort of cash to pay off the pension deficit because he knows the pilots are the only group that have the balls, commitment and financial resources to deliver a prolonged and crippling strike to BA. Thats why the man who only consults negotiates with us.
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Thats why the man who only consults negotiates with us.
That is why the pension lump sum went from £500M to £800M and the annual payments went from £250M to £280M.
because he knows the pilots are the only group that have the balls, commitment and financial resources to deliver a prolonged and crippling strike to BA.
1) Commitment - BARP for new pilots when they first joined: Did the majority of members care to think how divisive it could be in lets say 10 years? In my view a very naive and short term outlook by many members.
2) Financial resources - Massive mortgages (cost of living): How many pilots have huge repayments and have a relatively high cost of living compared to other groups in the company?
Unfortunately as a group, pilots will be non confrontational, have loyality to the company because of the time and money invested in it, and paradoxically this will be our greatest weakness.
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In the past 12+ years BALPA has never even had to threaten a ballot. Why? Because pilots and the BALPA leadership are intelligent enough to analyse any the proposals carefully and act accordingly. In short we are neither short sighted nor suicidal.
May I kindly refer you back to the BA PlILOTS TO STRIKE thread that ran for the last 6 months MM? Oh how short memories are for some!
May I kindly refer you back to the BA PlILOTS TO STRIKE thread that ran for the last 6 months MM? Oh how short memories are for some!
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They "ww " and other management forms, are going to take away from you until you wish you could work till 90, be strong strike or shut it down. Or try getting a couple of extra part time jobs.
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What a daft thread this is! Surmising, guessing, dreaming things up. Unless you have something concrete. no point in even trying to outguess!
Controversial, moi?
May I kindly refer you back to the BA PlILOTS TO STRIKE thread that ran for the last 6 months MM?
Note the question mark. At no time did BALPA threaten a strike. In that long thread individuals did express their resolve to strike if necessary but that is something entirely different from a union whipping its members into a frenzy with lies and mis-infromation.
Regarding Bidline rules, they may be tweaked but the negatives would far outweigh the positives if they were binned completely.
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Easyjet Commander £70k, BA £100K+. Obviously its not as simplistic as those two figures and the time it takes to achieve them, but a £30k difference all the same. You telling me that WW is not looking at that?!
And time to command in easyjet is exactly how long compared to BA? Litebulbs, your analysis is unfortunately flawed.
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I'm sure Willys been to Hong Kong and seen all those American aircraft sitting in the hangars getting heavy maintenance. He could outsource all BAs heavy maintentance work and save some money on engineering. It would save a lot more cash than taking a few percentage points off pilots salaries!
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He sure could and probably will, if the figures add up. He is, as we speak, cutting through the engineering cost base by lowering the engineering non B licenced head count by 200 as that grade is paid over market rate.