EasyJet Offices Raided by French Police
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I want to believe it should have been far easier to find an agreement should the french authorities had not behaved in a Gestapo style....
Dominique
Last edited by homebuilt; 23rd Dec 2006 at 13:58.
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CAULFIELD, Love it, banish them to the country and make them do VOR/DME approaches on 1 end , and No PAPI landings on the other. That'll teach them not to take their feelthy orange rosbif merde of avion eento our Paris Airports. Baneesh them to the Banlieu , non non to poxee leetle provincial airports that ees eeven bettah.Ah yes , liberte egalite fraternite, you ahr johkin right.
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A very gallic coup.
The French are, captplaystation, and always have been, an affront to the dignity of the European Union. From the CAP to the ridiculous number of JAR-FCL "deviations", or non compliances as they are in truth. Nothing new, of course. Since the unpleasantness of 1789, our garlic munching cousins across the channel have always possessed a rather unique world view. Preciousness doesn’t even begin to describe it. Cast your minds back to the frustrations of General Eisenhower when he wore only three stars, poor man, not to mention the Vichy collaboration in the final solution, lest we forget. The disgrace that should have every Frog hang his head in shame for a hundred generations.
Poor old EZY. Beguiled into buying all those little Airbuses in return for a handful of Orly slots a few years ago, only to have the finger of French duplicity smearing the caca all over the jewel in their European crown...or should that be Tiara? For shame.
La politique agricole commune a pour objectif de permettre aux agriculteurs de bénéficier d'un niveau de vie raisonnable, de fournir aux consommateurs des denrées alimentaires de qualité à des prix équitables et de préserver notre patrimoine rural. La politique s'est adaptée à l'évolution des besoins de la société. C'est ainsi que la sûreté alimentaire, la préservation de l'environnement rural, l'utilisation rationnelle des deniers publics et l'agriculture comme source de cultures destinées à la production de carburants ont acquis une importance sans cesse croissante.
Yeah, right! Can't wait to read their version of what's really behind the reason for Orly EZYbashing, as if we didn't know. Living with the French has always been like learning to live with Herpes, an ugly, embarrassing inconvenience that is, regrettably, with us for life.
Poor old EZY. Beguiled into buying all those little Airbuses in return for a handful of Orly slots a few years ago, only to have the finger of French duplicity smearing the caca all over the jewel in their European crown...or should that be Tiara? For shame.
La politique agricole commune a pour objectif de permettre aux agriculteurs de bénéficier d'un niveau de vie raisonnable, de fournir aux consommateurs des denrées alimentaires de qualité à des prix équitables et de préserver notre patrimoine rural. La politique s'est adaptée à l'évolution des besoins de la société. C'est ainsi que la sûreté alimentaire, la préservation de l'environnement rural, l'utilisation rationnelle des deniers publics et l'agriculture comme source de cultures destinées à la production de carburants ont acquis une importance sans cesse croissante.
Yeah, right! Can't wait to read their version of what's really behind the reason for Orly EZYbashing, as if we didn't know. Living with the French has always been like learning to live with Herpes, an ugly, embarrassing inconvenience that is, regrettably, with us for life.
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So, in the future, thank you very much for not putting us all in the same basket, OK?.
Dom
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Totally back you up on this Homebuilt !!!
Leo Hairy Camel,
I sincerely hope your post is not a glimpse of how we froggy pilots may be regarded from now on within the industry in the UK.
Let me point out that french wannabes pilots appear amongst the victims of AF dictatorship over France's commercial aviation in that sens that they are left with few, not to say zero credible airlines to be hired in, as a result of AF systematic unfair (I remain polite) ways of killing competion...
I just hope that we ain't gonna be the victims of some kind of unconscious discrimination in our attempt to get hired by eJ, for those, like me, who would be willing to fly orange.
That said, I regretfully agree with you in substance, hence my wish (maybe that of some others) to find some melting pot cockpits as part of my quest of different cultures knowledge.
cheers
bleeds
Leo Hairy Camel,
I sincerely hope your post is not a glimpse of how we froggy pilots may be regarded from now on within the industry in the UK.
Let me point out that french wannabes pilots appear amongst the victims of AF dictatorship over France's commercial aviation in that sens that they are left with few, not to say zero credible airlines to be hired in, as a result of AF systematic unfair (I remain polite) ways of killing competion...
I just hope that we ain't gonna be the victims of some kind of unconscious discrimination in our attempt to get hired by eJ, for those, like me, who would be willing to fly orange.
That said, I regretfully agree with you in substance, hence my wish (maybe that of some others) to find some melting pot cockpits as part of my quest of different cultures knowledge.
cheers
bleeds
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Could you be kind enough not to say "THE French"? In this present case, I believe we are a good number of froggies totally unapproving what happened here about EZ. And furthermore, myself as pilot working in a french airline I sent a subscription form to EZ one month ago....And, needless to say, this Starsky and Hush style action was the latest thing I wanted to see occuring....
So, in the future, thank you very much for not putting us all in the same basket, OK?.
Dom
So, in the future, thank you very much for not putting us all in the same basket, OK?.
Dom
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To be honnest with you guys, what happened to EZ at ORY is a disgrace but this wion't be the last time it happens. As long as the french govt has interests in the National airline, that kind of things will keep happening and there will be no competition in French skies.
Even small airlines operating on routes served by AF towrads Africa are obliged to follow AF's rules, i.e. size of aircraft, frequency and so on...ask Air Méditérranée or Eagle aviation!
AF complained about EK being helped by the UAE govt...
let's not even talk about the"indirect" subsidies it is receiving... I guess we just have to sit back and watch the show until it is over
Even small airlines operating on routes served by AF towrads Africa are obliged to follow AF's rules, i.e. size of aircraft, frequency and so on...ask Air Méditérranée or Eagle aviation!
AF complained about EK being helped by the UAE govt...
let's not even talk about the"indirect" subsidies it is receiving... I guess we just have to sit back and watch the show until it is over
I Have Control
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Chauvins
The English word "chauvinistic" stems from the French word above. They could have invented it for themselves, especially in this particular case.
C'est pas juste!
C'est pas juste!
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Speaking about this with a lawyer friend over the New Year Holiday....
Seems that one way out of this, although perhaps not ideal operationally for ej and others, would be to have no French ' base ' as such and have all sectors starting in France operated by aircraft and crew not based in France - ie, first sector of the day in from UK, Germany, Italy, or wherever, followed by a second sector starting France to a non-French destination or then a third sector from France to a non-French destination if the second sector is an internal / domestic sector.
Provided all crews operating these sectors are not on French employment contracts, or the aircraft do not overnight and crew do not HOTAC at company expense in France before or after start and finish of duty, the Gestapo Tax authorities here would have some difficulty to explain any repeat of their tactics...
I think you'll find that this is the case with the majority of CityJet's ops at CDG, although that might be more for operational reasons than legal reasons...
Seems that one way out of this, although perhaps not ideal operationally for ej and others, would be to have no French ' base ' as such and have all sectors starting in France operated by aircraft and crew not based in France - ie, first sector of the day in from UK, Germany, Italy, or wherever, followed by a second sector starting France to a non-French destination or then a third sector from France to a non-French destination if the second sector is an internal / domestic sector.
Provided all crews operating these sectors are not on French employment contracts, or the aircraft do not overnight and crew do not HOTAC at company expense in France before or after start and finish of duty, the Gestapo Tax authorities here would have some difficulty to explain any repeat of their tactics...
I think you'll find that this is the case with the majority of CityJet's ops at CDG, although that might be more for operational reasons than legal reasons...
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Another way around this would be for those companies based in France to meet the requirements of French law. The principle that companies based in each country should obey the employment laws of that country is one that works to the advantage of those who are employed. It is depressing to see pilots arguing against this principle. The impact of this seems to have been missed by those who seem to want everybody else's terms and conditions dragged down to the level of those with the lowest crew costs. Which is what I believe this is all about. In the end, after a lot of reduction in T&Cs, we will eventually see Europe wide rules with exactly the same effect. In the (10 year?) interim, T&Cs will drop. We truly deserve what we get.
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Ryanair challenges the new french labour decree
http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/news....=gen-en-030107
http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/news....=gen-en-030107
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Speaking about this with a lawyer friend over the New Year Holiday....
Seems that one way out of this, although perhaps not ideal operationally for ej and others, would be to have no French ' base ' as such and have all sectors starting in France operated by aircraft and crew not based in France - ie, first sector of the day in from UK, Germany, Italy, or wherever, followed by a second sector starting France to a non-French destination or then a third sector from France to a non-French destination if the second sector is an internal / domestic sector.
Provided all crews operating these sectors are not on French employment contracts, or the aircraft do not overnight and crew do not HOTAC at company expense in France before or after start and finish of duty, the Gestapo Tax authorities here would have some difficulty to explain any repeat of their tactics...
I think you'll find that this is the case with the majority of CityJet's ops at CDG, although that might be more for operational reasons than legal reasons...
Seems that one way out of this, although perhaps not ideal operationally for ej and others, would be to have no French ' base ' as such and have all sectors starting in France operated by aircraft and crew not based in France - ie, first sector of the day in from UK, Germany, Italy, or wherever, followed by a second sector starting France to a non-French destination or then a third sector from France to a non-French destination if the second sector is an internal / domestic sector.
Provided all crews operating these sectors are not on French employment contracts, or the aircraft do not overnight and crew do not HOTAC at company expense in France before or after start and finish of duty, the Gestapo Tax authorities here would have some difficulty to explain any repeat of their tactics...
I think you'll find that this is the case with the majority of CityJet's ops at CDG, although that might be more for operational reasons than legal reasons...
Nice mix of banana republic and popular democratic republic.....
It's a french who writes this....
Dom
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Sarah737's link above tells the real story, notwithstanding the apparent desire of many French citizens to use this as an opportunity to attack .... whomever.
Why is Ryanair challenging this law? (After all, their offices have not been raided) .... it's simply because the law directly attacks the mechanisms used by Ryanair to minimise its crew costs at the expense of (a) their own crew, (b) the market place for pilots and, via (b) to (c) reductions EVERYBODY'S terms and conditions.
France, as I said in an earlier post which was dismissed as being in some way innocent, is merely the first European country to object to "social dumping" by airlines. The sooner all airlines have to work in accord with common social requirements the better. Ryanair will continue to avoid all payments possible until it is forced to do so. And about time as far as I, for one, am concerned.
Why is Ryanair challenging this law? (After all, their offices have not been raided) .... it's simply because the law directly attacks the mechanisms used by Ryanair to minimise its crew costs at the expense of (a) their own crew, (b) the market place for pilots and, via (b) to (c) reductions EVERYBODY'S terms and conditions.
France, as I said in an earlier post which was dismissed as being in some way innocent, is merely the first European country to object to "social dumping" by airlines. The sooner all airlines have to work in accord with common social requirements the better. Ryanair will continue to avoid all payments possible until it is forced to do so. And about time as far as I, for one, am concerned.
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France is absolutely not innocent as you say and this is not about objecting to social dumping. I think you would be surprised if you knew how bad the terms and conditions are for french pilots in general. I would definitely choose to remain on a UK contract if I were one of the ORY crews concerned by all this. I think you got it the wrong way round here: it is the French who are trying to squeeze the most out of the uk contract crews.
I remember reading somewhere that airline personnel could be employed on a different contract to that of their contry of residence provided they weren't worse of. If this is true then it makes the french decree illegal, and it probably is why both eJ and FR are taking costly legal action. It wouldn't be the first time France tries to justify not complying with EU law by invoking "l'exception française"!
I remember reading somewhere that airline personnel could be employed on a different contract to that of their contry of residence provided they weren't worse of. If this is true then it makes the french decree illegal, and it probably is why both eJ and FR are taking costly legal action. It wouldn't be the first time France tries to justify not complying with EU law by invoking "l'exception française"!
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All I can do is refer to my first post some weeks ago, which suggested that this was more about some European carriers than Air France. I was told that I was innocent and had got it wrong. Unfortunately I was speculating along with everyone else. Now along comes an article from the U.S. I just came across searching the news on google: http://www.belleville.com/mld/bellev...s/16380614.htm
It looks to me like Ryanair are making the point for me. One quote from the article:
This is where I started. We pilots have a direct personal interest in how pilot costs and benefits are manipulated to the disadvantage of ALL pilots. I still think this is about "social dumping". (Which implies real or manipulated movement from country to country to disadvantage employees). ZBMAN this does not mean that I am not sympathetic to poorly paid French pilots. But that is a different matter.
It looks to me like Ryanair are making the point for me. One quote from the article:
Ryanair said it also has petitioned European Union competition authorities in Brussels, Belgium, in hopes of overturning the application of tax and other French labor standards on Ryanair employees based in France.
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ZBMAN this does not mean that I am not sympathetic to poorly paid French pilots. But that is a different matter.
It is completely beside the point to be chasing the likes of eJ or FR when at the same time many french pilots, operating JAR25 type aircraft have to live with 2000 euros a month on a temporary contract. But that's ok since it is complying with french labor laws, right?