The Little Prince

In many respects I'm sorry to see what is happening, there really does seem to be a max exodus from BACON, and Easyjet in particular must be applauding the recruitment success. I'm sure you'll all enjoy the bigger aircraft and the bigger paypacket, certainly the effective management (compared to BACON anyway). You might not like the sheer volume of work as much, but then again, anyone who flew the Emb with BACON will not be working any harder. With ref ourselves, I suppose it's quite interesting. Whichever way the cookie crumbles we have effectively got rid of most competition on a lot of our best routes. The hiring business may look bleak, but then, I suppose that BACON can just ground a few hulls and come off the routes earlier than planned if the numbers don't match the roster. At the end of the day, we hadn't planned an expansion programme like EZYs, with new aircraft arriving practically every week, so no problems there, because as you all know there are lots of people at each end of the industry desperate to break back in or get a start. There will undoubtedly be a commander shortage at some point, but then, when have you ever known an airline able to properly plan ahead in terms of manning levels? Quite often through no fault of their own.
How may people are moving to the shiny new airline in Edinburgh? I had heard that many senior guys had chucked the towel in, although there were some, amazingly, who were moving fleet to fill those slots. Are there many of you who really believe it will be different in this latest version?
At this point, I haven't heard from any genuine management since Xmas, so I don't know how many are taking the FlyBe offer. Genuinely hope it all works out for you all, I don't believe there is any substantive seniority issue to concern the likes of me, though I'm glad I'm not a mid-seniority Flybe Effoh.

Thumperdown

TLP said

"At this point, I haven't heard from any genuine management since Xmas, so I don't know how many are taking the FlyBe offer."


There has been no 'offer' made. As you say, little in the way of genuine info which would be the basis on which people could make a decision.

Word is that the lack of information and the amount of disinformation has led to the BACON rosters requiring to be re written after they were issued!

Captain Correlli

I can now honestly say that I don't care anymore. The interview and sim (amazingly) went quite well, so I am taking the orange pill. It may involve a move, we shall see, but at least I'm going to be part of a Company that makes a profit, and can go month to month without wondering if I'm still going to have a job by the next 'announcement'. Even better, a very substantial pay rise - why did I hang around for so long. TLP, you don't know the half of it, the numbers in resignation and move-on mode are truly awesome.
It's been a great decade, I've made some great friends, but I wish with all my heart I'd never heard of, far less JOINED this excuse for an airline.
The future's bright, the future is ORANGE!!!!!

rhythm method

Capt Correlli...
...DITTO!!!!

GroundBunnie

An update from JF on the nextgeneration website

http://www.nextgenerationairline.com...ter_120107.pdf

GroundBunnie

Cornflake

Have been offered an interview with the orange machine, and shall be taking it. The crewroom is becoming a discussion centre, I have never heard so many people in the process of leaving. Any tips on the interview from from Rhythm or Captain C??? Please??

rhythm method

Cornflake, there is an email I started which is currently doing the rounds of the crewroom (Manchester). Send me a pm with your email address and I'll forward the latest copy to you! If you are on RJ, 146 or 145 then you will most likely be applying for DEP scheme. If you only have Dash8 time it will be the TRSS scheme, which will mean different sim profile. Good luck!

Blackcap

PM sent! Orange certainly seems to be the future, there will be none of BACON left soon and I'm not going to be the one to turn out the lights!

rhythm method

BRAL... that looks like the colour of sand!!!! Guess you are in the last couple of weeks too! If you happen to be down this neck of the woods next weekend (20th) there is a joint (3-way.. or is that a Menage-a-trois?) leaving do organised for the Rectory. Wifey in heavily pregnant state will also be over to attend.

If not, cheers for all the help and advice over the years, and keep in touch!

RAFAT

Mr Angry -

After an hour or so trawling through various websites and complex European Union legislation documents to find the answer, the following 2 give a fairly good summary :

1) DTI Working Time Directive Summary to January 2005.

2) CAA Fodcom 29/2003

In short, airline crews (aka mobile personnel) were originally exempt from the Working Time Directive when it was established in 1993. Amendments in 2000 decreed that the WTD should be extended to include mobile personnel and member states would have until December 2003 to implement this. This limited annual duty time to 2000 hours.

Additionally, the CAA document states :

This therefore allowed Companies to define their own week, Monday to Sunday in Flybe's case. This wasn't a problem at that time, the CAA document goes on to say :

But as we all know some Companies now roster right up to those limits as a normal practice, which means, as the CAA document explains:

So CAP371 reverted to talking in terms of consecutive days, and at Flybe this meant having to abandon the practice of resetting the cumulative duty hour clock on Monday mornings, so a 7 day stretch was no longer productive for the Company as it was not really possible to do a normal duty everyday without exceeding the maximum allowable hours. Days 1 & 7 were therefore effectively limited to positioning duties only.

This is why the 7 on 7 off became 5 on 5 off.

Noiffsorbuts

Having read Mr French's latest briefing where he says that he is committed to make this deal work, I cannot but contrast this with the tone of his recent Guardian (I think) interview where he made it quite clear that he was ambivolent about the whole thing and it all depended on the unions not being too greedy.

That Easy Jet and every other decent employer are creaming us off at a simply breathtaking rate ought to send a very strong message......probably now too late to be heeded by Mr French.

Telling us that we should be glad of a job and that it was all our fault that BACON was in the poo because we happened to have a good scheduling agreement seems to have gained him no friends and has now spectacularly backfired it seems.

I havent made my mind up yet but I too have an Easy option along with anyone else of experience in Bacon who wants it.

So, Mr French tell me why I should join your company now?

Shagtastic

It's a little ironic that I read of all these BACON pilos raving on about thngs ORANGE...

Whilst I agree with them 110% that's it's a perferable option to what's on the table flying a 'Dash8 Delta' it is amusing to consider that things ORANGE would ney have been on their minds only 3 months ago, not even a thought.

But this game is a weird one.

Shags

remoak

I think his response would be "please DON'T join my company".

If you want Easy, take it. Flybe doesn't need a bunch of bitter and twisted ex-BACON employees, trying to cling to their previous life. It's over, you can't transfer it to flybe, and if you are as angry as you sound, you would be better off in a completely different company.

If I were BACON, and I had a sniff at Easy, I'd grab it with both hands and a spare foot. I can't imagine why you would want a Dodgy Dash when you could have a decent jet and a whole lot more money - unless basing is an issue of course.

I certainly don't think JF needs you as much as you think he does... he is under no compulsion to ramp up immediately.

Airlink Scotland

Really? Most (if not all) the Porkies joining up to the orange order will be heading for the right seat, a Trash command, with increments, will be a fair bit more dosh..... and no paying for the rating either!

I reckon the Porkers are about to cut of their snout to spite their face.

It would be amusing if it were not so sad, some still just dont get the fact that WW wanted the whole shooting match gone within 12 months NO MATTER WHAT!

Get over it, move on...

rhythm method

Airlink,

sorry to burst your bubble, but the majority are getting direct entry commands with easyjet. Of the 6 I personally know, 4 are DEC (3 on A319, 1 on the 737), another is on a scheme called 'fast-track command' as he has the hours, but not enough command recency, and the last one is RHS on the Airbus.

It is a misheld belief that DECs are not being accepted due to previous restrictions on aircraft weights. Even the 145 is now considered acceptable for the direct entry scheme, so

is also a load of tosh!

skysod

I say good luck to any and all who move on, I wish you well and hope that you enjoy your new challenge. As for those who are left behind, make the most of the opportunity to fill the seats that have been vacated.
So everyone's a winner!
That is so long as Flybe are left with enough pilots to keep the show on the road!

Airlink Scotland

And one comes along to prove my point!

You could not make it up!

Barbie to 319 Command, dont make me laugh! Never mind the easy F/O's who are already having to wait for their upgrade.... The only DEC's easy are interested in are those who have a proven heavy iron background....

and how is 'no paying for the rating' a load of tosh? flybe do not charge anyone up front for a rating as far as I am aware, easy do.

This whole thread is getting very tedious, flybe sounds like it will be better of without the squealers anyway....

flybe will do well, most on here do not understand buisness dynamics....

rhythm method

Airlink, it is quite obvious you haven't a clue what you are talking about.

Firstly, if you have sufficient time on emb 145, Bae 146, or RJ you do NOT pay for a type rating. You qualify for the direct entry pilot scheme. You are bonded at £17k over 3 years, reducing monthly pro-rata (unlike flybe's attempt at introducing a square bond!)

For those with Dash8 time only, yes, you are quite correct... it's the TRSS scheme.

I have been given DEC on the 737 (I have 146 command time), another 146 guy has been given A319 DEC, and recently the first 2 emb145 guys have been given A319 DEC. The fast-track command guy had previous command hours in the USA, but was working for us in RHS, hence his lack of command recency. He is RHS A319 to be based in MAD, expected command in 3-6 months. The last guy that is DEP A319 is currently SFO on the emb145.

I know you'd like to think we are all making it up, but when you see how empty our current flying plan is in the shredded BACON, you'll soon realise that there are bigger and better out there! I hate gloating, but when some bitter individual tries to make me out to be a liar, you'll get the FACTS in spades.

Mike Mercury

It seems that due to the amount of people leaving or working notice that there will be opportunities to move onto the RJ in EDI and become part of Baconrasher #2 if one so wants and has the right handshake.

1. What is the perception that this will work?
2. Who believes #2 will last, with or without eventual movement into mainline as a "bottom of the list FO"?
3. If the above answer is negative, why are BA not selling/disposing of it?
4. If no absorption into mainline is planned, how can such a small operation get to 'self sustaining' or 'critical mass' to be successful?
I am drawn to the idea of a small friendly operation, the appointment of NG as the FM is a step forward, (though CP is a huge drawback, and the fact that DD and PH are offski shows what they think of the prospects), and I like the idea of Scotland. However, reassurance on the endgame would be helpful, as there does not seem to be much of an investment taking place. This could be because:

1. BA have expansion plans for it, but don't want to show their hand while still attached to BACON #1.
2. BA are purely keeping it going to keep the LCY slots warm for eventual reversion to some mainline operation, and our demise.
What do we all think?

Wee Weasley Welshman

'Tis true - easyJet are hoovering up loads of excellent folks and offering DEC as ALL its current SFO's who have the hours have been either offered a command already or didn't pass selection. So nobody is actually disadvantaged. We need >450 pilots at the moment...

Its not often in this industry that you can move from LHS or a EMB to LHS of a A319/B737 with so little pain and hardship. Interesting times.

Cheers

WWW