The end is nigh for SSTR ?
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The end is nigh for SSTR ?
Let's hope so!
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Although Alteon does the same thing (SSTR) on behalf of the Irish carrier (RYANAIR), Hinton believes the days of such programs are numbered. "When I look at instructor resources in Europe and pilot resources, I think this buy-your-own-type-rating is going to have a very short life." The same is true in Asia, he adds. "Pilots will be in demand and will be able to command better terms."
Across the Atlantic ......... Senior VP-Flight Operations Tim Morgan:
Morgan is not a fan of requiring pilots to pay for their type rating. "We don't do that . . . I think that puts an onus on the pilot to fly a certain way or to react a certain way in the company. It's such a small dollar-and-cent number; it probably costs between $12,000 and $15,000 to pay for pilot training and I probably have less than one percent pilot turnover. It's just not worth doing.
see: http://www.atwonline.com/channels/ne...articleID=1123
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Although Alteon does the same thing (SSTR) on behalf of the Irish carrier (RYANAIR), Hinton believes the days of such programs are numbered. "When I look at instructor resources in Europe and pilot resources, I think this buy-your-own-type-rating is going to have a very short life." The same is true in Asia, he adds. "Pilots will be in demand and will be able to command better terms."
Across the Atlantic ......... Senior VP-Flight Operations Tim Morgan:
Morgan is not a fan of requiring pilots to pay for their type rating. "We don't do that . . . I think that puts an onus on the pilot to fly a certain way or to react a certain way in the company. It's such a small dollar-and-cent number; it probably costs between $12,000 and $15,000 to pay for pilot training and I probably have less than one percent pilot turnover. It's just not worth doing.
see: http://www.atwonline.com/channels/ne...articleID=1123
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SSTR
I would love to beliewe that it is so, but unfortunately it is all business, and as long as there are people stupid enough to pay for work, and the companys don't give a **** about the experience level of their flightdeck, then I think SSTR's will stay.
It is the pilots own fault that we have it !!!
It is the pilots own fault that we have it !!!
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Ah, but what is even more interesting is sitting next to some of the SSTR pilots after they have had the job for 12-18months. They then start to complain that the pay/conditions are not what they thought they would be!!!
Well of course they aren't, the whole idea of SSTR is to pull the bottom out of the market in favour of the employers and degrade all of our pay and conditions.
Sorry fact is, as long as wannabes keep stumping up the cash, companies will keep offering them, and we will fall even further behind other professions. And unfortunately we are doing this to ourselves!!
Well of course they aren't, the whole idea of SSTR is to pull the bottom out of the market in favour of the employers and degrade all of our pay and conditions.
Sorry fact is, as long as wannabes keep stumping up the cash, companies will keep offering them, and we will fall even further behind other professions. And unfortunately we are doing this to ourselves!!
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Doh!
For gawds sake that article is 2 years outa date folks.... 
So I wouldn't put too much hope on what that bloke says... 
Although Alteon does the same thing (SSTR) on behalf of the Irish carrier (RYANAIR), Hinton believes the days of such programs are numbered. "When I look at instructor resources in Europe and pilot resources, I think this buy-your-own-type-rating is going to have a very short life." The same is true in Asia, he adds. "Pilots will be in demand and will be able to command better terms."
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I would love to beliewe that it is so, but unfortunately it is all business, and as long as there are people stupid enough to pay for work, and the companys don't give a **** about the experience level of their flightdeck, then I think SSTR's will stay.
It is the pilots own fault that we have it !!!
It is the pilots own fault that we have it !!!
After 2 years of non-stop applying for ANY flying job ANYWHERE on ANY T/C's with ZERO result, after having worked as a flight instructor and having an experience of 600+ hours, I do not see ANY OTHER way of getting even close to a job than buying an A320 type rating.
Call me stupid if you like, but after 2 years hard work showing NO result WHATSOEVER I don't see any other way out. I used to say the same thing, however, the only people around me who have been hired are the ones who have paid for their own TR...So I'll take my chances, and now I believe I should have done that quite a while ago already....
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Addy
I quite agree with you. An experienced old timer of 24 like yourself, with all those hours really does deserve better. I see you've been looking for a whole TWO years now for a jet job. Wow, that's such a long time, I guess you are owed a job by now. And all that experience, what's the + in "600+ hours" worth? Must be at least 2,000 I guess. Looks like time is passing you by. You must have, what, only about 36 years left to retirement? The world is passing you by man, you gotta act. Come what may! To hell with the nay sayers! What do they know, they only fly for airlines. What's that compared to 600+ hours??. This may be you only chance.
I really am gobsmacked, 600 hours and no-one will give you that job you richly deserve. Shocking.
So, there's only one answer, better buy up a TR so. What they hey, why not, sure it's only money and you won't notice the subsequent erosion to the profession for another year or two and that's ages away. And by then you'll be only 30 years from retirement, so you'll be able to handle it anyway. So go on, be brave, make an airline manager happy. After all, he deserves it, poor mite, working so hard to screw all those poor naive gullible idiots in the flight deck so he can make his bonus bigger. And always remember, the girls love 2 gold stripes! Not interested in TP pilot, but man, a JET PILOT, you'll be beating 'em off with a big stick. They won't even care about those awful SSTR wages. Nor will you, cos it's a SHINY JET (well, not for about 6 months anyway).
You'd be mad not to go for it.
I quite agree with you. An experienced old timer of 24 like yourself, with all those hours really does deserve better. I see you've been looking for a whole TWO years now for a jet job. Wow, that's such a long time, I guess you are owed a job by now. And all that experience, what's the + in "600+ hours" worth? Must be at least 2,000 I guess. Looks like time is passing you by. You must have, what, only about 36 years left to retirement? The world is passing you by man, you gotta act. Come what may! To hell with the nay sayers! What do they know, they only fly for airlines. What's that compared to 600+ hours??. This may be you only chance.
I really am gobsmacked, 600 hours and no-one will give you that job you richly deserve. Shocking.
So, there's only one answer, better buy up a TR so. What they hey, why not, sure it's only money and you won't notice the subsequent erosion to the profession for another year or two and that's ages away. And by then you'll be only 30 years from retirement, so you'll be able to handle it anyway. So go on, be brave, make an airline manager happy. After all, he deserves it, poor mite, working so hard to screw all those poor naive gullible idiots in the flight deck so he can make his bonus bigger. And always remember, the girls love 2 gold stripes! Not interested in TP pilot, but man, a JET PILOT, you'll be beating 'em off with a big stick. They won't even care about those awful SSTR wages. Nor will you, cos it's a SHINY JET (well, not for about 6 months anyway).
You'd be mad not to go for it.
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CamelhAir - Well bloody said that man.
I can't believe these guys that think they are owed something by the industry, didn't they do some research before they spent the money on the licenses.
As a pilot wouldn't you prefer to gain experience and build your way through your profession? So what if you have to wait 4-5 years to get a airline job by the time you get there you will be vastly more experienced, have much better stories to tell and you are likely to appreciate your career for a lot longer. Plus I think you will have more respect from your more established colleagues
Having gone through this route myself and just got my first airline job (god forbid it's on a TP as well!?!) I find myself a lot more self satisfied and with my self respect in tact.
Maybe I should feel bad though as I only have 30 years left of my career! Lets hope the SSTR is soon to be history.
I can't believe these guys that think they are owed something by the industry, didn't they do some research before they spent the money on the licenses.
As a pilot wouldn't you prefer to gain experience and build your way through your profession? So what if you have to wait 4-5 years to get a airline job by the time you get there you will be vastly more experienced, have much better stories to tell and you are likely to appreciate your career for a lot longer. Plus I think you will have more respect from your more established colleagues
Having gone through this route myself and just got my first airline job (god forbid it's on a TP as well!?!) I find myself a lot more self satisfied and with my self respect in tact.
Maybe I should feel bad though as I only have 30 years left of my career! Lets hope the SSTR is soon to be history.
Last edited by Mono del dia; 1st Nov 2006 at 00:20. Reason: grammer
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Funny that, because the only people around me are the people who haven't paid for their TRs!!
600+hrs is worth nowt!
Excellent post, Camelhair. No-one deserves or has a right to a flying job.
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CamelhAir; Well said 
Addy, 600 hrs is nothing but still a step in the right direction. Why not try and join the real adult world and then actually work your way up the career ladder, learn a lot of lessons and get som valuable experience, with the result that you might actually be able to fly an aircraft when you get your first airline job PLUS you will have some natural respect from your future colleagues.
Trust me, life is so much more comfortable when your captains respects you for whom you are and for what you can do, than if they don't respect you because you don't know anything but have a big wallet.
I work in a company with mixed people. Some uf us worked our way up through pistons and TP's, and some came directly from flying school with lots of money from the bank, and there is no doubt that I enjoy to be in the right end of that group - I would never swap.
But hey, as said: HURRY UP god damit, time is running. You might not make it before retirement if you don't RUN out to buy that rating NOW NOW NOW. After all, retirement age will probably only be raised to somewhere between 65 and 70 before you get to that, so that leaves ONLY 41-49 years left on the market for you 
Addy, 600 hrs is nothing but still a step in the right direction. Why not try and join the real adult world and then actually work your way up the career ladder, learn a lot of lessons and get som valuable experience, with the result that you might actually be able to fly an aircraft when you get your first airline job PLUS you will have some natural respect from your future colleagues.
Trust me, life is so much more comfortable when your captains respects you for whom you are and for what you can do, than if they don't respect you because you don't know anything but have a big wallet.
I work in a company with mixed people. Some uf us worked our way up through pistons and TP's, and some came directly from flying school with lots of money from the bank, and there is no doubt that I enjoy to be in the right end of that group - I would never swap.
But hey, as said: HURRY UP god damit, time is running. You might not make it before retirement if you don't RUN out to buy that rating NOW NOW NOW.
After all, retirement age will probably only be raised to somewhere between 65 and 70 before you get to that, so that leaves ONLY 41-49 years left on the market for you
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Thank you for READING the things that I wrote down. (Apparently the only thing I am interested in is a new, shiny jet? Absolutely not! As I said, I want to fly ANYTHING, ANYWHERE under ANY t/c's. Would rather fly cargo at night in a TP than paying to 'be allowed to' work, also because I do not exactly have a big wallet. And I think I deserve a job, and blame everybody else for me not having a job? Perhaps my English isn't as good as I thought it was after all)
Oh yes, and thank you very much for the constructive comments. Very helpful!
Oh yes, and thank you very much for the constructive comments. Very helpful!
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As long as people are ready to pay for it, it won't stop... but I'm really wondering how the young guys find the money. (thank you mom and dad?)
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Hep Addy, maybe if nobody was so "stupid" to pay for their TR, you would have been in a good position to be hired in an airline without having to pay for your own TR as well...
As long as people are ready to pay for it, it won't stop... but I'm really wondering how the young guys find the money. (thank you mom and dad?)
As long as people are ready to pay for it, it won't stop... but I'm really wondering how the young guys find the money. (thank you mom and dad?)
Anyway, for me it is not a matter of a rich mommy or daddy, as they are not rich at all. The bank is being very helpful, because they would like to see me flying too (might be a good client for them in the future). And honestly, what's the difference between having a large debt and having a large debt?
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Addy, don't take things so seriously. They're just trying to get you back on track. The fact that you say that "I do not see ANY OTHER way of getting even close to a job than buying an A320 type rating" leads me to believe that you haven't given the other options much thought.
If you do buy a typerating, dont head stright for the jets. That's cheating the foodchain and there's much evidence saying that it's not the way to do things. As the other guys tried telling you, there's no guarantee that you'll get a job even though you have a Jet rating and indeed, nobody owes you a job. You have to fight for it. However, nobody strives to stay their whole career on TP's and thus there are frequent job openings, suitable for guys like you and me. Lowtimers are hired. They fly for a while and then suddenly a captain leaves the company to go to a jet. By now the lowtimer has a serious amount of hours and is a well experienced FO. He's offered a left seat and he takes it. He flies as a captain for a year or so and then goes to a jet operator to sit in the right seat again.
That's the standard order in which things should flow. In many cases the TP operators find them selves in sudden needs of pilots that they will actually PAY for the typerating or at least offer a bond. and when time comes for you to go to a jet, the experience you have will make you so attractive that that operator might just offer you a TR.
And what matters most? The fact that you get to fly or are you just in it for the glam? Dont cheat the foodchain and things should work out just fine.
/LnS that bought himself a Saab rating
If you do buy a typerating, dont head stright for the jets. That's cheating the foodchain and there's much evidence saying that it's not the way to do things. As the other guys tried telling you, there's no guarantee that you'll get a job even though you have a Jet rating and indeed, nobody owes you a job. You have to fight for it. However, nobody strives to stay their whole career on TP's and thus there are frequent job openings, suitable for guys like you and me. Lowtimers are hired. They fly for a while and then suddenly a captain leaves the company to go to a jet. By now the lowtimer has a serious amount of hours and is a well experienced FO. He's offered a left seat and he takes it. He flies as a captain for a year or so and then goes to a jet operator to sit in the right seat again.
That's the standard order in which things should flow. In many cases the TP operators find them selves in sudden needs of pilots that they will actually PAY for the typerating or at least offer a bond. and when time comes for you to go to a jet, the experience you have will make you so attractive that that operator might just offer you a TR.
And what matters most? The fact that you get to fly or are you just in it for the glam? Dont cheat the foodchain and things should work out just fine.
/LnS that bought himself a Saab rating
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Come on guys I think you’re being a bit harsh on Addy. Maybe stating that he’s got 600 hour’s was a bit of a mistake but I don’t read anything else in his posting that deserves such a response.
To give him credit he has tried the usual round of posting CVs and become an instructor for two years, with no results to show for it. Single pilot multi IFR no longer seems the way to go as you need X number of hours PIC IFR to be able to do it (a case of chicken and egg). I don’t see how doing a type rating can not increase his chances of getting a job. Okay it doesn’t have to be a jet rating, but the TP ratings on offer can be a little restrictive.
If you’ve finished your I/R over two years ago you are at a disadvantage to somebody who’s fresh out of flight school. And the longer he leaves it the worse it will get. It’s no comfort to know that you’ve got a potential 30 year career ahead of you if your licence expired 10 years ago.
Like them or loath them, SSTR’s are a fact of life. What is true is that for many people they do work. The company I’m working for has just taken on 4 low houred guys, all with type ratings paid for out of their own pockets. They were interviewed amongst other candidates also in possession of ratings. They got their jobs not only on the fact that they were rated but also on merit. I’m sure they will do well.
If you do go for a type rating Addy, think long and hard about it and choose wisely. It may work for you, or you may be throwing good money after bad. There are more wannabe pilots than jobs available. Some will be lucky and some won’t.
Good luck
ToneTheWone
To give him credit he has tried the usual round of posting CVs and become an instructor for two years, with no results to show for it. Single pilot multi IFR no longer seems the way to go as you need X number of hours PIC IFR to be able to do it (a case of chicken and egg). I don’t see how doing a type rating can not increase his chances of getting a job. Okay it doesn’t have to be a jet rating, but the TP ratings on offer can be a little restrictive.
If you’ve finished your I/R over two years ago you are at a disadvantage to somebody who’s fresh out of flight school. And the longer he leaves it the worse it will get. It’s no comfort to know that you’ve got a potential 30 year career ahead of you if your licence expired 10 years ago.
Like them or loath them, SSTR’s are a fact of life. What is true is that for many people they do work. The company I’m working for has just taken on 4 low houred guys, all with type ratings paid for out of their own pockets. They were interviewed amongst other candidates also in possession of ratings. They got their jobs not only on the fact that they were rated but also on merit. I’m sure they will do well.
If you do go for a type rating Addy, think long and hard about it and choose wisely. It may work for you, or you may be throwing good money after bad. There are more wannabe pilots than jobs available. Some will be lucky and some won’t.
Good luck
ToneTheWone
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Addy,
It took me 2000+hrs to get to TP, It then took me 3000hrs of TP to get a Jet. These things take time. This nonsense these days of having 500-1000hr FO's in the right seat is insane.
Take your time and LEARN something. Experience can't be bought.
It took me 2000+hrs to get to TP, It then took me 3000hrs of TP to get a Jet. These things take time. This nonsense these days of having 500-1000hr FO's in the right seat is insane.
Take your time and LEARN something. Experience can't be bought.