northern boy

Its a great airline to work for, outside of usual gripes, but be warned, its a LONG time to command. Been here 8 years, anything up to 5 or 6 more to wait under current plans..
It could all change next week.

scroggs

ATC83 There will be no large-scale recruiting for the forseeable future. With no new aircraft or routes planeed until 2011, and the airline pretty much up to establishment, there is no need for new people other than as attrition replacements. As pilots tend not to leave Virgin until they have to, and retirement has (as for every UK airline) gone back 5 years, don't expect much movement there.

As for minimum qualifications, yes, the airline will look at you with 2500 hours as that is the stated minimum. However, the vast majority of applicants have a good deal more than that, and therefore rather more than 2500 is the norm at entry. While it's not impossible to be accepted with the minimum hours, the competition (and my experience) suggests that it's very unusual, so don't get your hopes up. As Stan says, this airline is heavily oversubscribed by experienced pilots and has the luxury of being able to be very choosy about who it employs. That said, I got in (with 7000 or so hours, and 15 years' command experience)!

Command will be a long time for any new joiners now. Recent commands have been after 8 to 9 years in the RHS; the hiatus in expansion couples with the raised retirement age means that this will inevitably move towards 12 years or more. This is hardly surprising; as the airline matures and its expansion rate slows, its longhaul-only ethos will naturally mean a long time to command. Fortunately, the pay scales for senior FOs are pretty good!

northern boy

Should have mentioned the pay. Scroggs is correct, a senior FO with flight pay and allowances gets about as much as a captain in a smaller airline. Have looked elsewhere over the years and never found anything else I fancied doing or that could match the (hard won) T & C's that we enjoy. Would be nice to sit on the other side of the office one day though...

ATC83

haha ok cheers for the info guys. If they do open it up for one or two places next year then I suppose I can throw an application in and see what happens...

I know you guys put loads of info on before about pay etc etc but just wondering if there has been any changes since your last posts on pay?? If so what would a year one FO pick up after tax these days?

Oh and Northernboy, I see your in manchester...how do you find the commute??

northern boy

Hi ATC

I take home between 3500-4000 after deductions and pension contributions (6% from me 15% from Virgin) depending on the sort of month I'm having. Allowances are on top of that paid in green downroute. This is the source of some controversy with the taxman at the mo on an industry wide basis.

The pay is less than my equivilant at BA but I work a maximum 750 hrs per year and they do 900, so pro rata its probably about the same or maybe a bit less.
Not too short of money and certainly don't want to fly any more than I do. Plenty of day off working if you want it, crewing are never off the phone sometimes. Average 4 or 5 trips per month. Good outfit, as sociable as you want to make it. I tend to keep myself to myself but thats just me.

Commuting, well I'd rather not do it but I like living where I do so I put up with it. The best fleet for commuting is the Airbus as they get more late starts and longer trips.This may well change as new aircraft and routes come along in the fullness of time. I'm on the Boeing so lots of early Gatwicks and lots of time in the Travelodge. However, we do Manchester trips (Orlando, BGI, UVF) and you can now state a preference for the airport you want to operate out of (LHR/LGW/MAN). One or two of these a month makes a BIG difference.

Living on the West coast mainline, I make frequent use of the train, In fact I always travel home by rail as it is more flexible at the sort of times I need it, especially from LGW. Typically I'll either fly down on the day or train the day before and a night in the dreaded Travelodge. We get a deal on the trains as they are run by Virgin, although advance booking on the website can be just as effective. They are getting busier. If in uniform and at the weekend, the odd upgrade is available, but don't push it. Advance airfares are available one way from both BA and BMI. In fact its hardly worth using ID90 shuttles any more unless you live in Scotland/Ireland or abroad. Standby usually works out Ok since you can elect to be contacted on a day off. Works fine for me.
Typical door to door times are 2 1/2 hrs LHR 3 1/2 hrs LGW by air or train which aint bad.
Unfortunately when it goes wrong it falls apart in a spectacular fashion although I have never caused a flight to leave late yet. No worse than being stuck on the M25 I suppose. Crewing tend to be ok about it providing you don't do it too often.

Hope this is of use.

ATC83

Northern Boy

Thanks very much, very informative cheers...the pay is quite an issue to me as I was one of the wings cadets so have a heavy chunk taken out of salary to pay bonds etc. Getting raped by HSBC at the moment!

Definately keen on joining when possible, will keep an eye out on recruitment!
Thanks again guys

ATC

scroggs

The current economic upsets (both in banking and oil) afflicting both the USA and Europe are likely to fairly quickly impact on discretionary leisure and business travel in those economic regions, and this will have a direct effect on all airlines in these areas. As a result, Virgin's battening down of the hatches is looking particularly prescient, and is looking unlikely to be relaxed in less than the pre-announced 18 months. It's highly likely that other European and US longhaul airlines will take similarly cautious steps in the near future. Accordingly, I advise all those hoping to leave the loco/charter lines for Virgin/BA in the near future to perhaps extend their horizons to the East, or think a little longer term!

stansdead

Scroggs

Indeed, things look so bad in the banking sector that Virgin just bought the worst one going today.

D'oh !!!!

flyingbug

Hello,

does anyone have any info re VA recruitment plans for the next 1 - 2 years please? How is their recruitment undertaken, is it an open exercise via email and CVs, or a recommendation system? Are there interviews/ sim rides?
Thank you,
FB

scroggs

See post 222 above re recruitment plans.

Not that you'll need it anytime soon, but the rest of the information you need is contained in this thread. Grab a coffee/beer/wine and read thoroughly at your leisure.

EXEZY

Why the pessimism? I don't think you can class BA in the same category as VS, BA have a bit more strengh in depth.

flyingbug

Thank you Scroggs, should have checked the threads more thoroughly...
FB

woof

Hi guys,

Thanks for providing so much info. Apologies if this is one that slipped through the next.

I appreciate that recruiting is very much on the back burner for the next year or so, but does anyone know the current size of the hold pool? This perhaps could give the smallest of hints as to when Virgin may condsider topping up said pool.

Happy New Year

Woof

scroggs

As far as I'm aware, the hold pool is effectively full. However, I'm sure that some of those in it will need to move on and places will become available. I imagine that the company will let it drop to a certain level (half full?) before it considers it worth organising further interviews. Who knows when that will be. With fuel prices, Open Skies, T5, strikes (now cancelled) and who-knows-what-else, the business outlook must be pretty tight right now. I imagine that recruiting is probably a low priority!

The Big Easy

Scroggs,

Thanks for the info. I've been hoping for a call from VS for a couple of years but have finally given up. Couple of mates on the inside (both fleets) seem to think it's not the place to be anymore and are seriously looking else where. Never thought I would here that from a VS pilot. Dodgy management, time to command and some IT type positioning seems to be the main concerns.

Seems I have a great future behind me!

TBE.

4engines4longhaul

I would have to say that is a very negative view. Yep we have management issues like every other airline, and yes the -400 has a few issues regarding positioning in the carribean. Time to command is also becoming an issue for many, but you have to remember that a year 10 F/O is on about 65k per year, average days off per month is 16 on the bus and 15 on the Boeing, 15% pension contribution from the co. in return for 6% from the employee, PHI, LOL, private health care, good staff travel etc. Once you do get a command, year one is 100k approx rising to 150k at year 14 and a TRE/IRE so things are not that bad
On a pilot workplace of 800 pilots 3 resigned before retirement age in the last 12 months due to various reasons so turnover is low in comparison to most carriers.
We are also supported by a very effective BALPA company council with membership around 94% who are very good at maintaining our hard fought renumeration and benefits.

teamax

Is that why you are losing money?

NAT Zulu

....no, it's not. That would be the Nigerian connection!

scroggs

You obviously know something we in the company don't! While Virgin's pretax profit in 06/07 was reasonable, it was certainly reduced significantly by Virgin Nigeria's losses. However, the company remained in profit even after VK's losses - and tax - were taken into account. Not great profit, admittedly, but profit nevertheless. The 07/08 figures won't be announced for some months yet but, despite fuel prices and the disruption caused by the putative CC strike, the results are likely to be significantly better than last year.

teamax

Excellent news, must be crew room nonsense again. Goodluck for the future.