Ouch! That bl**dy well hurts......
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Ouch! That bl**dy well hurts......
This, sadly, is now our position on the great socio-economic pyramid.
Older ones may remember when we were in socio-economic group 1.
Now have a look to see how far we have slipped down the scale. Not long to go 'til we reach the bottom.
This is from the Government's website - sorry, can't remember the URL.
3. Associate professional or technical occupation (Science and engineering technicians, draughtspersons and building inspectors, IT operations and support technicians; nurses, paramedics, dispensing opticians, pharmaceutical dispensers, and medical and dental technicians; therapists; youth and community workers, housing and welfare officers; Officers in the police (sergeant and below), fire service (leading fire officer and below), and prison service (below principal officer); artists and authors; graphic, product and clothing designers; media associate professionals; sports and fitness occupations; Air traffic controllers, pilots and train drivers; public service, legal, business, finance, sales and marketing associate professionals; conservation and environmental protection officers; personnel and industrial relations officers, careers advisers, statutory examiners, occupational hygienists, and health and safety officers).
My apologies if this observation does not belong here. Feel free to relocate it!
Older ones may remember when we were in socio-economic group 1.
Now have a look to see how far we have slipped down the scale. Not long to go 'til we reach the bottom.
This is from the Government's website - sorry, can't remember the URL.
3. Associate professional or technical occupation (Science and engineering technicians, draughtspersons and building inspectors, IT operations and support technicians; nurses, paramedics, dispensing opticians, pharmaceutical dispensers, and medical and dental technicians; therapists; youth and community workers, housing and welfare officers; Officers in the police (sergeant and below), fire service (leading fire officer and below), and prison service (below principal officer); artists and authors; graphic, product and clothing designers; media associate professionals; sports and fitness occupations; Air traffic controllers, pilots and train drivers; public service, legal, business, finance, sales and marketing associate professionals; conservation and environmental protection officers; personnel and industrial relations officers, careers advisers, statutory examiners, occupational hygienists, and health and safety officers).
My apologies if this observation does not belong here. Feel free to relocate it!
Paxing All Over The World
Interesting ... when I was working in IT, I managed people that were IT operations and support technicians; so does that put me in a higher category than a 'mere pilot? 
I can't work out which is the biggest insult to pilots, being categorised with occupational hygienists or with personnel and industrial relations officers
I can't work out which is the biggest insult to pilots, being categorised with occupational hygienists or with personnel and industrial relations officers
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Welcome to the next century.
THE only way to keep the airline pilot profession anywhere NEAR what it once was is to ORGANIZE UNIONS, STRIKE and be ready for anything.
I also include changing laws to allow strikes much more easily and system wide SOS (suspension of service) around the world if not just the nation.
In the USA, the president can declare an emergency, appoint a panel, and order pilots back to work.
With a republican jerk in office in the USA, we the pilots are hosed for the next couple of years...but wait till 2009...save something for your own strike fund and BAM.
ANYONE who wants to know what being a JET PILOT for a good airline needs to see the old movie, "SUNDAY IN NEW YORK" with Jane fonda, Clift Robertson (pilot) and a fine cast.
THAT should be the blueprint for our lifestyle! :-)
jon
THE only way to keep the airline pilot profession anywhere NEAR what it once was is to ORGANIZE UNIONS, STRIKE and be ready for anything.
I also include changing laws to allow strikes much more easily and system wide SOS (suspension of service) around the world if not just the nation.
In the USA, the president can declare an emergency, appoint a panel, and order pilots back to work.
With a republican jerk in office in the USA, we the pilots are hosed for the next couple of years...but wait till 2009...save something for your own strike fund and BAM.
ANYONE who wants to know what being a JET PILOT for a good airline needs to see the old movie, "SUNDAY IN NEW YORK" with Jane fonda, Clift Robertson (pilot) and a fine cast.
THAT should be the blueprint for our lifestyle! :-)
jon
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Originally Posted by jondc9
Welcome to the next century.
THE only way to keep the airline pilot profession anywhere NEAR what it once was is to ORGANIZE UNIONS, STRIKE and be ready for anything...
THE only way to keep the airline pilot profession anywhere NEAR what it once was is to ORGANIZE UNIONS, STRIKE and be ready for anything...
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Group 1 includes:
Office managers, Warehouse managers, Publicans and managers of licensed premises, Travel agency managers, Garage managers and proprietors, Hairdressing and beauty salon managers and Shopkeepers.
Group 2 includes:
Judges (??!!) and Librarians.
Still, at least we're still ahead of Telephonists, Typists, Receptionists and Market research interviewers. I suddenly feel so much better.
The link, starting at Group 1. First on the list of Group 1 are Senior officials in national government. Doesn't that tell you all you need to know....
Edited to add: I see we're on a par with Estate agents. I feel sick.
Office managers, Warehouse managers, Publicans and managers of licensed premises, Travel agency managers, Garage managers and proprietors, Hairdressing and beauty salon managers and Shopkeepers.
Group 2 includes:
Judges (??!!) and Librarians.
Still, at least we're still ahead of Telephonists, Typists, Receptionists and Market research interviewers. I suddenly feel so much better.
The link, starting at Group 1. First on the list of Group 1 are Senior officials in national government. Doesn't that tell you all you need to know....
Edited to add: I see we're on a par with Estate agents. I feel sick.
Last edited by metabolix; 3rd Aug 2006 at 18:31.
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Originally Posted by Final 3 Greens
These are groupings, not a hierarchy.
However, as a management consultant, I look down on you
However, as a management consultant, I look down on you
If it's not a statement, funny how the "Senior officials in national government" didn't place themselves at the bottom of group 6
Psychophysiological entity
Before the industry and its aircrew can expect any form of respect, they will have to learn to respect the people that pay the bills.
I for one would sooner endure the heat here that tackle that journey home–with passengers being treated like cattle. Even AA's seat pitch is no longer...er, longer.
Connections that don't, and cabin crew that are aggressively rude. I'll give it a miss thanks.
Some time before 9/11, Bush senior was on British T/V promoting the US for holidays. Perhaps arrival in the US could be made less of a nightmare now that some experience has been gained with security. The immigration factor? Well, another issue, but if the US wants the income, it needs to provide a better welcome.
Almost all my traveling acquaintances all feel that it is more trouble than it is worth, and I have seen some old folk (of my age ) totally break down with frustration and fatigue. Most of the older travelers just want to see their kids...so Hobson's choice for them where they go.
I for one would sooner endure the heat here that tackle that journey home–with passengers being treated like cattle. Even AA's seat pitch is no longer...er, longer.
Connections that don't, and cabin crew that are aggressively rude. I'll give it a miss thanks.
Some time before 9/11, Bush senior was on British T/V promoting the US for holidays. Perhaps arrival in the US could be made less of a nightmare now that some experience has been gained with security. The immigration factor? Well, another issue, but if the US wants the income, it needs to provide a better welcome.
Almost all my traveling acquaintances all feel that it is more trouble than it is worth, and I have seen some old folk (of my age ) totally break down with frustration and fatigue. Most of the older travelers just want to see their kids...so Hobson's choice for them where they go.
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Originally Posted by metabolix
Still, at least we're still ahead of Telephonists, Typists, Receptionists and Market research interviewers. I suddenly feel so much better.
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Don't worry gents - we still have 6 groups to go
Seriously, I think it will go this way. Let's facee it -we are no longer the fearless jet jockeys, the planes are getting safer and easier to fly... There are also more and more of us, which makes our trade more and more common No strikes or unions are going to change it... By the way - susch statistics remind me of the "Brave new world" by Aldous Huxley - don't they?
Seriously, I think it will go this way. Let's facee it -we are no longer the fearless jet jockeys, the planes are getting safer and easier to fly... There are also more and more of us, which makes our trade more and more common No strikes or unions are going to change it... By the way - susch statistics remind me of the "Brave new world" by Aldous Huxley - don't they?
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What are these cat based on?? Pay? Pension? Benefits? (leave, medical insurance) because I find it hard to believe that librarians and store managers in the UK make 60-120 k /year...(normal pay for captains in UK(?) ) I also find it hard to believe they get £800-1000 for working on a day off....
/CP
/CP
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Originally Posted by CaptainProp
What are these cat based on??
the two main concepts of the classification remain unchanged:
kind of work performed - job, and
the competent performance of the tasks and duties - skill.
kind of work performed - job, and
the competent performance of the tasks and duties - skill.
Apparently, classification in future will decided using The National Statistics Socio-economic Classification:
The National Statistics Socio-economic Classification Analytic Classes
1 Higher managerial and professional occupations
1.1 Large employers and higher managerial occupations
1.2 Higher professional occupations
2 Lower managerial and professional occupations
3 Intermediate occupations
4 Small employers and own account workers
5 Lower supervisory and technical occupations
6 Semi-routine occupations
7 Routine occupations
8 Never worked and long-term unemployed
1 Higher managerial and professional occupations
1.1 Large employers and higher managerial occupations
1.2 Higher professional occupations
2 Lower managerial and professional occupations
3 Intermediate occupations
4 Small employers and own account workers
5 Lower supervisory and technical occupations
6 Semi-routine occupations
7 Routine occupations
8 Never worked and long-term unemployed
whether an employer, self-employed or employee; whether a supervisor; number of employees at the workplace
I suppose the real question is which class do we think we should be in? Let me begin.... Whichever class it is, it can't be the same one as Estate agents and it's GOT to be above "Senior officials in national government" and "Senior officials in local government", otherwise that puts us in line with the criminal class.
Last edited by metabolix; 3rd Aug 2006 at 22:47.
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Are we really bothered about what section of an obscure database we will be pidgeon holed into? I'm certainly not. What matters to me is my quality of life. I see "Careers Advisers" are in the same category as us. All the careers advisers I have ever met have been unable to tell me how to become a careers adviser, let alone any other job. In short they have been useless at a non-job. Engineering Technicians are in the same category too, in contrast, most of these blokes are looked down upon and underrated for their skills. Surely this proves the fact that the groupings are wrong, rather than the fact that we have anything to worry about.
The Government got it wrong, so what's new?
The Government got it wrong, so what's new?
Well as an engineering technician I find it a bloomin affront to be lumped in with the pilots!
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Maybe we should be in Group 8
821 Transport Drivers And Operatives
8211 Heavy goods vehicle drivers
8212 Van drivers
8213 Bus and coach drivers
8214 Taxi, cab drivers and chauffeurs
8215 Driving instructors
8216 Rail transport operatives
8217 Seafarers (merchant navy); barge, lighter and boat operatives
8218 Air transport operatives
8219 Transport operatives n.e.c.
"What's your job big boy?" "I'm an air transport operative love. Shancy a fag?"
821 Transport Drivers And Operatives
8211 Heavy goods vehicle drivers
8212 Van drivers
8213 Bus and coach drivers
8214 Taxi, cab drivers and chauffeurs
8215 Driving instructors
8216 Rail transport operatives
8217 Seafarers (merchant navy); barge, lighter and boat operatives
8218 Air transport operatives
8219 Transport operatives n.e.c.
"What's your job big boy?" "I'm an air transport operative love. Shancy a fag?"