Trouble In The Sun Of Dubai.......
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: On the Beach
Posts: 297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Trouble In The Sun Of Dubai.......
Job in Dubai anyone? Beware, a Canadian pilot here has just been given a month in jail followed by deportation, as reported in today's local rag, the Gulf News. His crime was to allegedly extend his middle finger to a local cop in a road traffic incident........
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: deepest Bedfordshire
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What is the purpose of this posting? Anti Arab sentiment? Distrust of other nations laws?
Its unfortunate for the individual concerned but obscene gestures are a big no-no when driving in the UAE. You can cut people up, pull out in front of them and do much that would get your collar felt in the UK / USA but stick your fingers up and thats it...you're in trouble....
Most people are aware of this when they drive over there....if not, perhaps people should take the time to acquaint themselves with local customs....
I have sympathy for the guy concerned but he made the faux pas.... ignorance is no excuse......
Half the posts in JetBlast complain about a lack of respect in modern society...looks like the UAE have got it right.... show a lack of respect and you can have free board and lodging for a month!
Its unfortunate for the individual concerned but obscene gestures are a big no-no when driving in the UAE. You can cut people up, pull out in front of them and do much that would get your collar felt in the UK / USA but stick your fingers up and thats it...you're in trouble....
Most people are aware of this when they drive over there....if not, perhaps people should take the time to acquaint themselves with local customs....
I have sympathy for the guy concerned but he made the faux pas.... ignorance is no excuse......
Half the posts in JetBlast complain about a lack of respect in modern society...looks like the UAE have got it right.... show a lack of respect and you can have free board and lodging for a month!
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: S.O.E.
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Monkey Alan,
I'd perhaps be just a little more circumspect when talking about 'lack of respect'. Some of our erstwhile "hosts" are absolute bloody masters at it. But of course, you would know all that.
OK - The obvious question - Is it an Emirates Pilot ?
I'd perhaps be just a little more circumspect when talking about 'lack of respect'. Some of our erstwhile "hosts" are absolute bloody masters at it. But of course, you would know all that.
OK - The obvious question - Is it an Emirates Pilot ?
Sims Fly Virtually
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Used to be 3rd Sand Dune from the Left - But now I'm somewhere else somewhere else.
Posts: 704
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You mean was he an EK pilot 
You don't piss off the local cops - anywhere, Mid-East or USA, if you're a foreigner and aren't sure of the culture!
Silly Man
You don't piss off the local cops - anywhere, Mid-East or USA, if you're a foreigner and aren't sure of the culture!
Silly Man
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: London, Engeeerland!
Age: 44
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But come on! Sticking a middle finger up in an accident, hasn't anyone here ever seen the red rag before? What would've happened if he swore, a public beheading?
What people seem to forget is that's the guys job! And so far as calling him stupid is ridiculous, what would you feel like if you were in an accident. Anyway, perhaps that's just me! And imagine what would happen if you saw lots of muslim men drinking shedloads of beer, going with hookers and eating numerous pork based products - of sorry, already have seen that!
What people seem to forget is that's the guys job! And so far as calling him stupid is ridiculous, what would you feel like if you were in an accident. Anyway, perhaps that's just me! And imagine what would happen if you saw lots of muslim men drinking shedloads of beer, going with hookers and eating numerous pork based products - of sorry, already have seen that!
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Behind the picket fence
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Never one to speculate, (coughs!), but I suspect the poor sod had a fender-bender with a 'local'.
What some readers of this thread may not appreciate is that in Dubai, (if not the entire UAE), if you are in a road traffic accident with an Emiratee citizen, irrespective of the circumstances, the local law will regard you as being the driver at fault.
You can imagine how frustrating this would be if for example, whilst waiting at a set of lights you are rear-ended by the inevitable Toyota Landcruiser. On their arrival, the law speaks in the local dialect to the Landcruiser driver, (no problem in itself, but you don't speak the lingo), who then departs with a handshake and "Al-Salam Alykum".
Having waited for a now ridiculous period of time while your documents are checked, (giving you ample opportunity to inspect the damage to your vehicle), it is you who is then presented with a ticket!!!
I have not experienced this myself, (extremely fortunate given the standard of driving in that country), but have heard first hand accounts from those who have.
My finger would also be twitching under those circumstances if the man in uniform, having given me the hard time, wore a big, cheesy grin as I limped away, dragging my exhaust/tail pipe behind me.
So I have some sympathy for the guy, especially given where he is now...
Abe
What some readers of this thread may not appreciate is that in Dubai, (if not the entire UAE), if you are in a road traffic accident with an Emiratee citizen, irrespective of the circumstances, the local law will regard you as being the driver at fault.
You can imagine how frustrating this would be if for example, whilst waiting at a set of lights you are rear-ended by the inevitable Toyota Landcruiser. On their arrival, the law speaks in the local dialect to the Landcruiser driver, (no problem in itself, but you don't speak the lingo), who then departs with a handshake and "Al-Salam Alykum".
Having waited for a now ridiculous period of time while your documents are checked, (giving you ample opportunity to inspect the damage to your vehicle), it is you who is then presented with a ticket!!!
I have not experienced this myself, (extremely fortunate given the standard of driving in that country), but have heard first hand accounts from those who have.
My finger would also be twitching under those circumstances if the man in uniform, having given me the hard time, wore a big, cheesy grin as I limped away, dragging my exhaust/tail pipe behind me.
So I have some sympathy for the guy, especially given where he is now...
Abe
Last edited by Abraham Zapruder; 4th Apr 2006 at 19:44.
Guest
Posts: n/a
I wouldn't extend my middle finger to any cop..nevermind in the middle east! Strathclyde cops in Scotland would have you in the back of a van before your knuckle whitened. Cops in England would politely ask you not to do it again.
However, I feel a month in prison is a bit harsh.
However, I feel a month in prison is a bit harsh.
Not available in stores.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Eye of the Storm
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, one remembers a certain American Airlines pilot who flipped off the authorities in Brazil a few years ago in response to their demand he be fingerprinted and photographed on entry to the country.
Their request was a direct counteraction to a similar demand of Brazilian citizens entering the United States.
If memory serves correctly, the AA pilot was fined something in the neighbourhood of $12000 USD, and immediately sent out of the country, perhaps under orders not to return for a while, if ever.
Those here who have warned against offending officialdom in any nation (no matter how silly or inept those officials may seem) should be heeded, for they are wise...
Their request was a direct counteraction to a similar demand of Brazilian citizens entering the United States.
If memory serves correctly, the AA pilot was fined something in the neighbourhood of $12000 USD, and immediately sent out of the country, perhaps under orders not to return for a while, if ever.
Those here who have warned against offending officialdom in any nation (no matter how silly or inept those officials may seem) should be heeded, for they are wise...
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have been told a car came up behind flashing and trying to push past him over the yellow line. He pulled out of the way, flicked the bird and was unlucky enough that it was a local big wig in the police who then had him pulled over. It was not a police car!
Puts a different spin on it doesn't it.
Puts a different spin on it doesn't it.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: flyover country USA
Age: 82
Posts: 4,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not sure if it's still true --
The license tags in the UAE showed both European and Arabic numerals.
EXCEPT - vehicles of the UAE native-born have Arabic only, making it easy for gendarme to determine instantly who is at fault in a collision.
And members of the royal family generally have NO plates.
The license tags in the UAE showed both European and Arabic numerals.
EXCEPT - vehicles of the UAE native-born have Arabic only, making it easy for gendarme to determine instantly who is at fault in a collision.
And members of the royal family generally have NO plates.
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Magic Kingdom
Posts: 655
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I once honked at a local and raised my arm at him for doing something very dangerous (very common out here).
The local did not like that and followed me for sometime until I got fed up, pulled off to a clear patch of sand and got out of the car. He pulled of too, got out of the car and came at me screaming and shouting in arabic.
I asked him just what was he on about and that he almost crashed into me. After a bit more screaming and shouting he said this isn't Texas (can't figure that out), got back in his car and sped off in a cloud of dust and sand.
Moral of the story, they take great offence at being "pointed" at and if they have the power to do something about it they will. As our Canadian friend found out.
It is different out here, and unless you have lived out here, you realy have no idea what it really is like.
The local did not like that and followed me for sometime until I got fed up, pulled off to a clear patch of sand and got out of the car. He pulled of too, got out of the car and came at me screaming and shouting in arabic.
I asked him just what was he on about and that he almost crashed into me. After a bit more screaming and shouting he said this isn't Texas (can't figure that out), got back in his car and sped off in a cloud of dust and sand.
Moral of the story, they take great offence at being "pointed" at and if they have the power to do something about it they will. As our Canadian friend found out.
It is different out here, and unless you have lived out here, you realy have no idea what it really is like.
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Embedded in a pocket of resistance
Posts: 269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by studi
This case is an obvious sign of how society works there. It's not about giving respect, it's about to show whos country it is and who has to shut up.
Giving the middle finger to a policeman (stupid of course) and be fined: normal
Getting in jail for it: strange
Being deported: totally ridiculous
In other words, working there means you give up all your rights for the money. Thats the way you are regarded there, an exchangable human capacity with a certain price. When supply was small, people were treated well (Emirates some years ago), now Dubai has become a certain fast selling item, so no efforts needed anymore. If you don't like it, you can leave.
This is something which is totally in contrary to western world civilisations: in "our" sphere of influence, also the "lowest" foreign worker has his rights which are guaranteed, regardless whether he is arguing against a local or even a governmental position.
I guess this case will have an impact on prospective applicants to middle eastern jobs. It is another warning sign, and this time not from so called "disgruntled ppruners" (no pun at them intended), but from an official tribunal. Keep discovering.
Giving the middle finger to a policeman (stupid of course) and be fined: normal
Getting in jail for it: strange
Being deported: totally ridiculous
In other words, working there means you give up all your rights for the money. Thats the way you are regarded there, an exchangable human capacity with a certain price. When supply was small, people were treated well (Emirates some years ago), now Dubai has become a certain fast selling item, so no efforts needed anymore. If you don't like it, you can leave.
This is something which is totally in contrary to western world civilisations: in "our" sphere of influence, also the "lowest" foreign worker has his rights which are guaranteed, regardless whether he is arguing against a local or even a governmental position.
I guess this case will have an impact on prospective applicants to middle eastern jobs. It is another warning sign, and this time not from so called "disgruntled ppruners" (no pun at them intended), but from an official tribunal. Keep discovering.
Pot....Kettle...Black....
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Hampshire physically; Perthshire and Pembrokeshire mentally.
Posts: 1,611
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by captjns
The old saying goes... when you are a guest in a strangers house... act accordingly... or you too will be ejected.
I am not a professional pilot but I have worked in the Emirates on and off since 1974. (I design media facilities for a living) If you work there, you are a mercenary and a hired gun, so you check your ego at the door and deal with it. The local people and authorities and extremely courteous if you play by the rules.
And let's face it. A generation from now you could all be replaced by teenagers at Playstation consoles. with a camp CC member in appropriate uniform doing the PR bit
And let's face it. A generation from now you could all be replaced by teenagers at Playstation consoles. with a camp CC member in appropriate uniform doing the PR bit
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Embedded in a pocket of resistance
Posts: 269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by studi
Rob, still having nightmares? Hope you get over it one day. 
Just kidding, as I can't take your comparison seriously.
Just kidding, as I can't take your comparison seriously.
Sorry to break the news to you that Switzerland does not qualify as a "western world civilisation."
The way most foreigners were treated in Switzerland after 9-11 is not very similar to what you described as " in "our" sphere of influence, also the "lowest" foreign worker has his rights which are guaranteed, regardless whether he is arguing against a local or even a governmental position."
Foreign (non-EU) pilots were simply kicked out of Switzerland (given 3 months on a tourist visa to pack their bags) with a small tip that didnīt even cover their moving expenses back to the other side of the world.
"This case is an obvious sign of how society works there. It's not about giving respect, it's about to show whos country it is and who has to shut up." Yep, absolutely true what you said about the UAE, but unfortunately also very true for Switzerland!
Geographically Switzerland is in the middle of Europe, legally itīs a Banana Republic not even worthy of joining the EU!
You see, I wouldnīt even have replied to this thread if it hadnīt been for your typically arrogant Swiss post, thinking that Switzerland is Godīs gift to "civilisation."
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Embedded in a pocket of resistance
Posts: 269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by studi
As the right of abode of these non-EU foreigners was attached to having a job, they subsequently had to leave the country.
Originally Posted by studi
Swiss Airlines had to release hundreds of people to be able to stay in business, foreigners and Swiss citizen.
Move on!
To hear a Swiss talk about how this would never happen in a "western world civilisation" simply makes me sick. There are clear analogies between the UAE case and Switzerland but you obviously do not to see them, either through lack of knowledge or deliberate denial.
Before you start judging other countries in your arrogant manner, perhaps you should start be looking a bit closer to home!
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Embedded in a pocket of resistance
Posts: 269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I stand by my case: no foreigner in the western world would be deported for showing his middle finger to a police officer.
There are clear rules in Switzerland about the right of abode....
Stick your head a bit deeper in the (desert?) sand and you won´t have to worry about any pilot getting deported from the UAE, just like you don´t seem to worry about foreigners getting kicked out of Switzerland.
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Rostering's PC
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by kms901
I am not a professional pilot but I have worked in the Emirates on and off since 1974. (I design media facilities for a living) If you work there, you are a mercenary and a hired gun, so you check your ego at the door and deal with it. The local people and authorities and extremely courteous if you play by the rules.
And let's face it. A generation from now you could all be replaced by teenagers at Playstation consoles. with a camp CC member in appropriate uniform doing the PR bit
And let's face it. A generation from now you could all be replaced by teenagers at Playstation consoles. with a camp CC member in appropriate uniform doing the PR bit
KMS,
Doubt it.......