thomsonfly queries

[Bluebaron]

Re: thomsonfly queries

midjet,

our pay varies a lot. flexi payments are great but not guarenteed. i have taken between £2800 uo to £5300 and a average of £4048 this tax year. my salary will work out to be approx £75,000pa as a year 2 F/O, (last year around £60,000). i have done 30 days flexi.

BB

[RAFAT]

Re: thomsonfly queries

I was very confident in my chances with Thomsonfly, and was gutted when I failed stage 2. They offered feedback so I wrote to request some - nothing arrived. I've since written on 2 further occasions but have still received nothing, should I ask yet again?

[Pilot Pete]

Re: thomsonfly queries

Originally Posted by midjet

notdavegorman:
Bluebaron:
Thanks for the info, cheers. I guess your take home is not long haul or is it? that’s good money!
Cheers.

Can't speak for BB, but when I was an F/O, year 2 (only got command last August), I made similar money and that did include longhaul, but what you have to remember is longhaul in Brits/Tfly is only a small portion of our overall flying (none for me now on the 737 ) so you could only reasonably expect about 1 trip a month at most. If that trip is only a few days away, yes you get Duty Pay 24hrs a day, but if it is during the summer you could potentially be doing many more sectors over the same time period and be clocking up Sector Pay, so if you include recovery days after longhaul the difference in pay is not massive. The biggest factor by far is Flexi Working. At £500+ per day for a capain and £350 for an F/O, if you get 2 a month (not unreasonable) that is a substancial increase in salary (£12k a year for a captain, £8400 for an F/O), and take home pay. If the duty goes passed midnight it may qualify for a double payment, so you can see how it clocks up. If you are ETOPS trained and they have a crew shortage on a longhaul flight it is not unheard of for a 7 day Mali to have been crewed using Flexi Working........not bad for 7 days on the beach; but you will buy dinner every night for the crew if you are pompous enough to tell them you are on Flexi....

So how can the company afford this? Well, crewing the flight with our own crew by calling in a volunteer from a day off is much cheaper than sub chartering the flight. It was a clever scheme devised by the pilots (through our BALPA CC) which was a 'win,win' for company and pilots alike.

PP

[Pilot Pete]

Re: thomsonfly queries

Originally Posted by RAFAT

They offered feedback so I wrote to request some - nothing arrived. I've since written on 2 further occasions but have still received nothing, should I ask yet again?

Sorry to hear that. In my experience the feedback can be a bit hit and miss. Remember their priority is recruiting people, so feedback for those not taken on is going to come second (possibly a distant second) and the few people that I know who have failed have been given feedback that sometimes doesn't correlate with their perception of their performance (understandable), but doesn't sound like 'them' to me either, so I wouldn't lose sleep over not getting any feedback from them as it may be of limited value.

Best of luck with the ongoing job search.

PP

[Banzai Eagle]

Re: thomsonfly queries

Bluebaron - if you sold 30 flexi days then your getting too many days off!
I can understand your reasonings Pilot Pete but surely the Company should only be calling the crews on days off in dire times of need, not every week.
And Balpa should be discouraging its members from flying on 30 days off, that masks either not enough crew, or too many days off - or a bit of both.
Just goes to show throw money at Pilots (or anyone) and the problems go away!

[Pilot Pete]

Re: thomsonfly queries

Originally Posted by Banzai Eagle

I can understand your reasonings Pilot Pete but surely the Company should only be calling the crews on days off in dire times of need, not every week.

Very true BE. What you have to remember is that the company have been expanding for the last 18 months and the Crew Training Unit have been unable to train the required numbers in the required timescales leading to the crew shortages you allude to. Management aren't happy at the amount of money being paid out in Flexi Working, but the incentive is for them to sort out their end of the business and get the right numbers of crews available at the right times and the problem would be solved. They can't deny that the alternative (sub-chartering all those flights) would be a massive expenditure.

Add to this the expansion has been on the 737 fleet, using old equipment and the day to day firefighting you also allude to has been happening more than would be desirable.

So everyone is aware of the crew shortages and there is no need for BALPA to frown on guys helping the company out and making money as they do so, it was a BALPA driven initiative which is mutually beneficial. BALPA is not there to screw companies into recruiting more pilots than it needs and is not there to act as a charity for unemployed pilots.

If the company gets it's sums right and delivers qualified pilots on timescale with hull arrivals into service then the problem is sorted and their costs for Flexi Working go down. If they decide that Flexi Working is a cheaper method than recruiting more pilots then that is their right. What you have to remember is that nobody is contractually obligated to do ANY Flexible Wroking and many pilots choose to do none, hence the company can't rely on it as a long-term plan to lower establishment figures significantly. Each pilot still has to have the legal minimum days of of 8 per month (or is it 28 days, can't remember), so as part of the Flexi deal each pilot was given more days off than the minimum so that the system would work.

There are still disruptions that mean a guy who has worked lots of flexi has to be taken off rostered duties to stay legal, so again the incentive is for them to do the sums right or else everyine would be working their roster in reverse and gaining huge amounts of extra money!!

PP

[midjet]

Re: thomsonfly queries

Pilot Pete,

If you don’t mind, can you tell us a little about your roster stability. I thought I heard that at Thomson, once the roster is published, it cannot be changed within a certain number of days?…. Is that right?


Cheers

[Pilot Pete]

Re: thomsonfly queries

The roster is very stable. Once published they CANNOT CHANGE it outside of a Block Window (+/-2 hrs of report and off duty times) without your consent and you are under no obligation to give that consent, no matter how many days in advance. You bid for Flexi Working on an electronic form (just a calender where you tick the days you want to offer) and the company choose what they want you to work (there may be none). If you have bid and they give you more than 48hrs notice of a duty, you are expected to do it. If less than 48hrs notice you can refuse it as you may have made other plans by that late stage. They also hold a 'Cold Call' list for Flexi Working, with pilots who are happy to be contacted whilst off duty to be offered a flying duty. Again, no obligation to accept any offer through a cold call. The system is pretty basic and could be adjusted to make all duties 'desirable', as at present there is a huge discrepancy in the amount of work you may be required to do on a 'Flexi'; for instance, you might get called out for an Amsterdam, when you will be back at home in about 5hrs, and if it goes past midnight you get a double payment, conversly, on the 75/767 fleets you may be asked to do a Sharm el Sheik for only one payment! One of our pilots actually wrote a computer program to factor all flights based on duration, time of day/ night so that the most unpopular ones got the greatest payments. Made sense when he showed me it, but management haven't taken him up on it.......

Flexible Working is a mechanism which allows the company the flexibility to 'fire fight' if they need to, using volunteers who will get reasonably well rewarded for offering their services (and being used). This in itself leads to greater roster stability as there is no requirement to change someone's roster; just call a volunteer out. Anyone who has worked under the 'old' style system of Crewing Departments just constantly fire-fighting on a daily basis, knows that every time they change one duty it leads to a whole host of other pilots' rosters being changed and hence no stability (read lifestyle) for those involved.

We also do block weeks of standby duties (very few though), which you can bid for inadvance (which allows you to 'see' the 3 BDOs before and after the week a long time in advance of the roster issue) and this also crams all the disruption into one period, where you can expect to do lots of travelling and fire-fighting, the agreement being that Flexi-Working is employed first, standbys as a last resort.

Even during these turbulent times of expansion and lack of crews the rosters remain stable. Another initiative to increase productivity is for the Carmen Rostering Optimiser to be introduced, which should see us fly more due to more efficient rostering without impacting on our days off. Most were in favour as it appeared to be another 'win, win', BUT there are issues such as the Block Window protection only applying when you are flying out of your base, whereas Carmen may optimise you and have you flying from many different bases during a 'Pairing' (home base to home base duty with a number of days in between), hence you could end up doing anything on the days in between..........we are yet to see this fully.

PP

[P-T-Gamekeeper]

Re: thomsonfly queries

Flexi work sounds like how Draft "should" work at BA. I hope it gets sorted soon. The management abuse of the current system stops people volunteering, leading to catch22.

[Bluebaron]

Re: thomsonfly queries

Should have been a bit clearer in my answer. I have had 30 'payments' But only worked around 20 days off. As PP states we get a double payment in we go over midnight or start before 0600.

I'm nowhere near the top some guys have done 60+ days. I've been lucky(?) to have leave i didn't really need so could sell back for flexi.

That said we do seem to get a lot of days off but we can work long days (14 hours). So if you worked a normal shift of 4 on 4 off you would get around 15 days off a month, more than us on average.

BB

[Pilot Pete]

Re: thomsonfly queries

I would just like to point out how this roster stability came about; in 1998 the pilots experienced a 'Summer of Discontent' due to horrific rostering/ crewing, where you may as well have torn up your roster on the day of issue as you would not be flying any of those duties. The pilots decided that another summer like that would be intolerable and made the decision to come up with a better system and let management know just how strongly everyone felt about it.

Through 90%ish member of BALPA and a strong Company Council with clear aims and a mandate, they were able to come up with this system and establish a new working relationship which is more of a partnership with the management, rather than confrontation. The solutions were obvious. Come up with a better system and show the benefit to the company, especially any cost saving and the management would be silly not to at least consider it. This they did and the rest is history.

IMHO Thomsonfly have one of the best packages on the market due to these working practices, opportunities to work more and hence earn more, or to enjoy your days off. The issue at the moment is that of basic pay, where we have fallen well down the 'league table' and this is where most pilots want the CC to expend their efforts in this year's pay round talks.

It's not perfect, but what job is? One thing for sure is that there are worse places to work I can assure you.

PP

[rjay259]

Re: thomsonfly queries

Hey all

PP Ive been told 60 min but you will get 90 min from the call (30 min to get changed).
Oh and thankfully I have know finished at EMA Hilton, its nice but there is only so much to do. Base training and Hapag here we come.

259

[Pilot Pete]

Re: thomsonfly queries

rjay

You are right, don't know where I got that figure from....maybe it's my ASBO restriction order.

PP

[MAX]

Re: thomsonfly queries

Life with Tfly isnt all about the cash. I only fly 500hrs a year, have a stack of time off every week, spend 3.5 months a year in the southern hemisphere and stick two fingers to flexi. Its a great company for flexibility.

MAX

[yeoman]

Re: thomsonfly queries

I second (or is it third) what Max and Pete say. It's all horses for courses as to how you live your life in TFly. Lots of options, rock solid roster, good package but some work needed on basic. I'm going nowhere else fast.

[510orbust]

Re: thomsonfly queries

Lets not forget about the point system for wanting major holidays off like xmas and new year, never seen a system so fair to new joiners with no senority not to mention gold and silver days. Alll the new joiners on my course thought we were on a reality show just waiting for someone to come in saying HA HA , but then came the lap top not to mention "oh and make sure you book summer vacation for next year".....It is as far as I am concerned the best company to work for. I have in my short time with T fly seen, a very understanding and compassionate company when it comes to family illness, a willingness to help guys through tough times in the training and bending over backwards to keep them in. Its these latter statements that make a company reputable through its employees and a pleasure to work for....

[ATC83]

Birmingham crew base

Hi Guys

A slight change of subject here, regarding basing for pilots....

Have Thomsonfly actually got a firm crew base in Birmingham? If so is it only for the 757? Or does anyone know on the inside if they are thinking of moving the 737 there too?
I'm rated on 737-300 and the NG at moment...what are the chances of tfly offering 757 do you think??

Cheers

[SeamusCVT]

TFly are to move the 733s from DSA to CVT for Summer 2006 if that might help? Obviously just down the road from BHX...I don't know if that might be an option for you?

[Pilot Pete]

Summer 2006 is here already and I don't see the -500s gone and replaced by -300s at CVT.

PP

[gonso]

Originally Posted by SeamusCVT

TFly are to move the 733s from DSA to CVT for Summer 2006

Where is this coming from Seamus? The 735s are going to be around for a wee bit longer. Additionally there are rumors about the CVT future that are not so optimistic.
A few points for all:
1) DO NOT include flexible working in any calculations you do on your income. This is very risky. Consider FWS as a bonus, not as a standard part of the salary. Do not buy a car (for example) thinking that selling two days off a month will cover the payments. I hear people that are doing 30-40-60 days rer annum. I have done 40 ever since the scheme started back in 2001-02! Mind you that I am not one of those that say no every time they call me for extra work, unless I am on a beach in Spain or I have just finished a long series of duties and I NEED some time off. Additionaly, Carmen will make sure that we work so b...dy hard that there will be fewer and fewer opportunities.
2) 737 basing is different than 756. If you fly the 756 and you want to move to ie. GLA, you will not get the transfer if they have enough 756 pilots in your rank there. On the 737 you can go...anywhere pretty much. We have 737 pilots that are based on non 737 bases!
3) The days away from home are bound to become more and more common. I dont believe (for the next 5 years at least) that the preferencial part of Carmen is going to work. The blank days I read about in this and other threads will become a thing of the past (heck, they already are! I havent seen a blank day since April)
4) I really dont know whats the fuss about flying a bigger jet (756 instead of 737). Obliously it comes from people that have not done a night Larnaca followed by a night Iraklion followed by a night Girona. The 756 is a dying fleet, not only for Britannia sorry ...Thomsonfly, but for the whole world (with the exception of the americas and the far east). True, you log more hours on the 756 fleet BUT you log more quality hrs on the 737. You gain more experience if you do one Jersey followed by one Amsterdam than doing a Palma (which is equal amount of hrs). Its not about size....its about distance!
Also you have the most desirable rating in Europe.
5) Anything we say about roster and lifestyle in Britannia sorry ...Thomsonfly is completely irrelevant. We have not seen Carmen ...dancing yet. I you do seriously consider a job in Britannia sorry ...Thomsonfly, ask us again in 6 months time (if you can afford to wait). If you can' t ....just close your eyes and jump in the pool with us. It is STILL a great company. Not as it used to be but still better than the rest