How a unique and open culture treats its staff......
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Not much point in hiding names here, but I've worked for Britannia (or Thomsonfly now) for 25 years and in all that time whenever I have needed compassionate time off there has never been any pressure whatsoever to return to work. I've lost both parents and a daughter during that time, have been taken off the roster immediately and told to let them know when I am ready to return to work.
In these days of general dissatisfaction with the way we are treated by our employers I reckon that is pretty good, and my sympathy goes out to the poor bloke whose Mum is dying and the lousy response from whichever airline it is he works for.
In these days of general dissatisfaction with the way we are treated by our employers I reckon that is pretty good, and my sympathy goes out to the poor bloke whose Mum is dying and the lousy response from whichever airline it is he works for.
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Don't forget, this is the same airline that says 2005 was not a bad year, profits exceed city expectations and that it is expecting to acheive greater profits next year with the help of the hard work of all its employees. The next day, it makes 50 of its staff redundant saying its a cost saving exercise.......funny how none of those 50 are part of the senior management team....
FX Guru
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I'm not in the airline industry, but this sort of story affects all workers, everywhere.
When my mother was terminally ill (she was only in her 50s) I couldn't really concentrate at work. I started making small mistakes which were caught by colleagues. In the forex business a small mistake can suddenly turn out to be hugely costly.
In the piloting business a small mistake.....well, you know.
My then boss told me to go and look after mum and come back when I was ready. She died a few days later. But I will never forget the kindness my boss and the company showed me.
I'm still with them. They were good to me, I've been loyal to them, despite some pretty generous offers.
Three days is pathetic, particularly when the poor guy is high on hours. You folks who are dissing the fact that his mum in the Antipodes, wait till your mum/dad needs a bit of TLC.
I hope the management at Big E reconsider their stance.
When my mother was terminally ill (she was only in her 50s) I couldn't really concentrate at work. I started making small mistakes which were caught by colleagues. In the forex business a small mistake can suddenly turn out to be hugely costly.
In the piloting business a small mistake.....well, you know.
My then boss told me to go and look after mum and come back when I was ready. She died a few days later. But I will never forget the kindness my boss and the company showed me.
I'm still with them. They were good to me, I've been loyal to them, despite some pretty generous offers.
Three days is pathetic, particularly when the poor guy is high on hours. You folks who are dissing the fact that his mum in the Antipodes, wait till your mum/dad needs a bit of TLC.
I hope the management at Big E reconsider their stance.
Join Date: Jan 2004
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HR rules are rules and 3 days is the norm. If its enough is another question and employees should be ready to take leave unpaid or paid to get anymore time off.
However, the Chief Pilot normally has the discretion to grant over and above on a comp basis. I cannot overstate how much goodwill you can build up by showing some flexibility and compassion. I was going to say that it could be "big airline" syndrome but I have first class experience of how BA handle this sort of situation, something i can only praise them for.
However, the Chief Pilot normally has the discretion to grant over and above on a comp basis. I cannot overstate how much goodwill you can build up by showing some flexibility and compassion. I was going to say that it could be "big airline" syndrome but I have first class experience of how BA handle this sort of situation, something i can only praise them for.
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If fitness to fly becomes a factor due to lack of ability to concentrate, I would suggest it would be incumbent on the pilot to remove self from flight duty and go on short term disability or whatever the equivalent term is in europe.
As I stated on page 1, unpaid leave is really last behind about 5 other suitable options for granting this fellow what he needs.
As I stated on page 1, unpaid leave is really last behind about 5 other suitable options for granting this fellow what he needs.
Join Date: Jun 2000
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Reference Orangetree & others;
Let's spell this out in simple terms for those who don't get it.
The chappie is paid XXX per anum to produce YYY amount of productivity. If what is said is true, he has already, nearly, produced YYY amount of productivity. Thus, he has honoured his side of the bargain.
So, can anyone explain why he can not have the rest of his year off, paid, for whatever reason he wishes? This unheartless response from a 'caring' employer is typical of them, but quite a red herring for those wishing to defend their actions.
Still reckon he should go sick and bu#$er it. It would be Oh so different if he was pregnant. There would be no discussion. One person leaving the earth & one more joining. What a difference in attitude.
Sucks!!
And lets not forget alll that good CRM trainging which tells us not to come to work if there is severe trouble at home and we feel emotionally disturbed. It could be a flight safety hazard. This is preached to us every CRM referesher. OK, USE IT! Not only are you disturberd by the very fact of a family tradgidy, but the action of your employer exacerbates the matter.
Let's spell this out in simple terms for those who don't get it.
The chappie is paid XXX per anum to produce YYY amount of productivity. If what is said is true, he has already, nearly, produced YYY amount of productivity. Thus, he has honoured his side of the bargain.
So, can anyone explain why he can not have the rest of his year off, paid, for whatever reason he wishes? This unheartless response from a 'caring' employer is typical of them, but quite a red herring for those wishing to defend their actions.
Still reckon he should go sick and bu#$er it. It would be Oh so different if he was pregnant. There would be no discussion. One person leaving the earth & one more joining. What a difference in attitude.
Sucks!!
And lets not forget alll that good CRM trainging which tells us not to come to work if there is severe trouble at home and we feel emotionally disturbed. It could be a flight safety hazard. This is preached to us every CRM referesher. OK, USE IT! Not only are you disturberd by the very fact of a family tradgidy, but the action of your employer exacerbates the matter.
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FR is not soo bad... They have changed their view on what happens if a pilot has family problems. Ryanair will get anybody off the roster when there are family/personal problems. FR will pay for the flight on the roster for a contracter i.e. of a bereavement.
They changed this most probably after the skavsta incident report. Which stated that he was stressed out and could not afford to report sick/unfit to fly. FR is normally quite good in applying recommendations from official authorities.
They changed this most probably after the skavsta incident report. Which stated that he was stressed out and could not afford to report sick/unfit to fly. FR is normally quite good in applying recommendations from official authorities.
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Last year saw the loss of my best friend (not a family member) suddenly in Africa. I go and see my manager. He clears my roster for 14 days without question and provides me with tickets, offers of help from BA Cargo, hotel in Africa etc. I actually went back flying after 10 days because I was ready too. My company has a life time of respect from me. So many people are ready to bash BA however with regard to personal requirements for time off they are execellent.
Quote
"Also, whilst you are away I am having to take up some of the work."
"Whether the chap is at max hours or not is completely irrelevent."
fmgc you really don't give a very coherent argument.
It seems common sense to give the necessary amount of compassionate leave for each individual case. This one has been made "easier" for the manager concerned, not more difficult, by the person being close to max hours.
"Also, whilst you are away I am having to take up some of the work."
"Whether the chap is at max hours or not is completely irrelevent."
fmgc you really don't give a very coherent argument.
It seems common sense to give the necessary amount of compassionate leave for each individual case. This one has been made "easier" for the manager concerned, not more difficult, by the person being close to max hours.
OK, I'll out myself as executive management level with a major European aviation group.
One of my direct reports lost his son - killed in an accident before his very eyes, no less - in the Far East and we did the following:
Got the passenger division to get him and his family back home on radically oversold flights
Got the regional management to provide support from the time of the accident to the time he boarded the return flight
Got the cargo division to assume responsibility for the funeral home/legal stuff/logistics of returning the coffin and got them to waive transportation charges
I did the following:
Talked to him every day from the time of the accident until he was back with his support network and beyond.
Saw him when he wanted to see people
Accompanied him to the airport to meet the coffin
Gave him as much time off work as he wanted and needed. I picked up his workload with the rest of my people.
Briefed all his coworkers and customers on what we thought was the best way to handle personal contact.
Spent hours talking (and crying) with him when he came back to the office.
He's pretty much OK now.
Now, I'm not trying to grow wings here, but I'd like to think that that's what somebody would do for me in the same circumstances.
Back to the case in question: this guy - due to maxing out his hours - can't provide significant economic benefit to the company.
Give him the time off, for goodness sake, communicate the reason and let the word get around that, no, this is not going to be formal company policy, but it's a common-sense solution based on known parameters.
One of my direct reports lost his son - killed in an accident before his very eyes, no less - in the Far East and we did the following:
Got the passenger division to get him and his family back home on radically oversold flights
Got the regional management to provide support from the time of the accident to the time he boarded the return flight
Got the cargo division to assume responsibility for the funeral home/legal stuff/logistics of returning the coffin and got them to waive transportation charges
I did the following:
Talked to him every day from the time of the accident until he was back with his support network and beyond.
Saw him when he wanted to see people
Accompanied him to the airport to meet the coffin
Gave him as much time off work as he wanted and needed. I picked up his workload with the rest of my people.
Briefed all his coworkers and customers on what we thought was the best way to handle personal contact.
Spent hours talking (and crying) with him when he came back to the office.
He's pretty much OK now.
Now, I'm not trying to grow wings here, but I'd like to think that that's what somebody would do for me in the same circumstances.
Back to the case in question: this guy - due to maxing out his hours - can't provide significant economic benefit to the company.
Give him the time off, for goodness sake, communicate the reason and let the word get around that, no, this is not going to be formal company policy, but it's a common-sense solution based on known parameters.
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Several posters here taking the "rules is rules" approach. One of the earliest lessons I learnt (and one of the best) from my RAF days was that rules are made for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men.
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RevMan2
Do you need pilots if so I want to work for you! That is precisely the kind of responce a decent leader should have, it sounds to me that we need people like you in the orange orchard!
I have been with the orangerie for 5 years never taken a days sick and always given my upmost and more, however if the companies responce is as the original poster has stated I don't want to work here anymore!
I understand that there are people that take the Mickey out of generosity but a good meneger should be able to tell when the need is genuine, this is the hallmark of good LEADERSHIP!!
Rather than the useless carry on's of the incompetant! Something we at easy are becoming frighteningly more familiar with!
Do you need pilots if so I want to work for you! That is precisely the kind of responce a decent leader should have, it sounds to me that we need people like you in the orange orchard!
I have been with the orangerie for 5 years never taken a days sick and always given my upmost and more, however if the companies responce is as the original poster has stated I don't want to work here anymore!
I understand that there are people that take the Mickey out of generosity but a good meneger should be able to tell when the need is genuine, this is the hallmark of good LEADERSHIP!!
Rather than the useless carry on's of the incompetant! Something we at easy are becoming frighteningly more familiar with!
e28 driver
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Curious how it is that when some people perceive that another person is getting a favourable deal, they resent that, and might even seek to prevent it.
Example: I used to live about 60 miles from my base. There was an airport about 15 miles away that we flew from and the company would position crews to it from my base to operate the duties that started and finished there. The crewing dept would roster me (although they denied it) more often than they otherwise might to fly those duties from that airport closer to my home, where I could report directly to. Some of my colleagues made it known that they were not at all happy about this situation, even though it might have even saved them from an hour positioning before a six sector and after a 4 sector day.
I'd be interested to hear how people justify these petty jealousies, any comments fmgc???
Example: I used to live about 60 miles from my base. There was an airport about 15 miles away that we flew from and the company would position crews to it from my base to operate the duties that started and finished there. The crewing dept would roster me (although they denied it) more often than they otherwise might to fly those duties from that airport closer to my home, where I could report directly to. Some of my colleagues made it known that they were not at all happy about this situation, even though it might have even saved them from an hour positioning before a six sector and after a 4 sector day.
I'd be interested to hear how people justify these petty jealousies, any comments fmgc???
Last edited by TDK mk2; 7th Dec 2005 at 11:45.
From the opening post I jumped to the conclusion that this thread was referring to easyJet.
The company no more cares for its employees that Ryanair do. At least FR are honest about it.
The company no more cares for its employees that Ryanair do. At least FR are honest about it.
Pirate, I quite agree with you, and think how much emphasis was put on Flight Commanders etc, responsibility for and TO the troops under them.
I also remeber the RAF maxim that loyalty not only goes up, but DOWN as well!!!
I also remeber the RAF maxim that loyalty not only goes up, but DOWN as well!!!
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My claim to fame in a previous life was giving the required 3 comp days comp then contactables. When the 3 days comp had expired i backdated to contactable and moved the next 3 days to comp and so on.
Works a treat particularly with pilots wifes just about to drop, keeps the HR wolfs from the door.
Works a treat particularly with pilots wifes just about to drop, keeps the HR wolfs from the door.
