Delta Pilots Threaten Strike Over Pay Cuts (merged)
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for what they got paid, for the days that they worked, they should be happy.
Dear Mr. Rants:
What do you think it is worth to strap on 350, 000 pound jet loaded with fuel and passengers,and land on a 7500 foot snow and ice covered landing strip in freezing fog and heavy snow after shooting a non precision step down approach through the mountains.
Sometimes you earn the years salary in one night, especially when compared to pro ball players or doctors for that matter, or even attorneys
You should thank Delta pilots for our wages being what they are.
I'm afraid if we left it up to people like you, we'd all be earning jack.
I don't know what you do for a living but I'm an airline pilot and it is worth every dollar I'm paid.
No offense.
Dear Mr. Rants:
What do you think it is worth to strap on 350, 000 pound jet loaded with fuel and passengers,and land on a 7500 foot snow and ice covered landing strip in freezing fog and heavy snow after shooting a non precision step down approach through the mountains.
Sometimes you earn the years salary in one night, especially when compared to pro ball players or doctors for that matter, or even attorneys
You should thank Delta pilots for our wages being what they are.
I'm afraid if we left it up to people like you, we'd all be earning jack.
I don't know what you do for a living but I'm an airline pilot and it is worth every dollar I'm paid.
No offense.
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Dear Mr. Mirabella,
The problem is the greedy pros at ALPA do not strap the 350,000 lb machine on enough. They love to talk the talk then game the unproductive reserve system designed by pilots and ALPA to allow pilots to sit home and brag about how much money they make and dont have to work for it. When you and the rest of the ALPA pros start flying more than 400 hours a year then maybe the companys can afford to keep paying you. What the company cannot aford is to pay pilots to stay at home and stay in training all year long.
Dont tell me the 25 billion lost by Delta had nothing to do with pilot wages thats B.S. and you know it. The reason the pilots are the targets is because they do not work enough and still want to be paid as if they worked 6 days a week. I also find your comment about doctors funny. They spend a whole lot more time on the pager and on the job then 8 or 9 days a month. Every doctor I know would trade jobs with me in a minute. The thought of working the schedule we have is somthing they can only hope to have.
If being a doctor or a lawyer is so great (it must be as the ALPA guys are alway compairing themselves to them) then might I recommend you bail out of the seat and go to law or medical school.
As for what the union crane operators or the pool guy makes a year they dont work as few days a month like the greedy ALPA guys want to. I bet they work 5 and 6 days a week in less than great working conditions. Once again if union crane operators have it so good why dont you become one and get out of the seat you are currently in ????
Face it ALPA had the companys by the short hair prior to 9-11 and now it is pay back time and ALPA is singing the blues. If they would have asked for a fair wage and work rules things would be a whole lot differant.
ALPA needs to take the medicine that has been a long time coming. and ALPA pilots need to start flying airplanes again.
The problem is the greedy pros at ALPA do not strap the 350,000 lb machine on enough. They love to talk the talk then game the unproductive reserve system designed by pilots and ALPA to allow pilots to sit home and brag about how much money they make and dont have to work for it. When you and the rest of the ALPA pros start flying more than 400 hours a year then maybe the companys can afford to keep paying you. What the company cannot aford is to pay pilots to stay at home and stay in training all year long.
Dont tell me the 25 billion lost by Delta had nothing to do with pilot wages thats B.S. and you know it. The reason the pilots are the targets is because they do not work enough and still want to be paid as if they worked 6 days a week. I also find your comment about doctors funny. They spend a whole lot more time on the pager and on the job then 8 or 9 days a month. Every doctor I know would trade jobs with me in a minute. The thought of working the schedule we have is somthing they can only hope to have.
If being a doctor or a lawyer is so great (it must be as the ALPA guys are alway compairing themselves to them) then might I recommend you bail out of the seat and go to law or medical school.
As for what the union crane operators or the pool guy makes a year they dont work as few days a month like the greedy ALPA guys want to. I bet they work 5 and 6 days a week in less than great working conditions. Once again if union crane operators have it so good why dont you become one and get out of the seat you are currently in ????
Face it ALPA had the companys by the short hair prior to 9-11 and now it is pay back time and ALPA is singing the blues. If they would have asked for a fair wage and work rules things would be a whole lot differant.
ALPA needs to take the medicine that has been a long time coming. and ALPA pilots need to start flying airplanes again.
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Rants:
I'm very happy where I am.
I strap it on a lot.
Delta's pilot wages over the last few years are not responsible for their 20 something billion dollars in losses.
Doctors are responsible for one life at a time.
I am responsible for 700/ day.
You sound pissed off.
Maybe you are not happy.
Please don't take offense, we simply have a difference of opinion.
Delta pilots earn what they earn every time they fly.
Again I say, sometimes you earn the years salary in one night.
It's all a matter of what one thinks it's worth.
I for one believe it to be worth serious bling-bling.
I'm very happy where I am.
I strap it on a lot.
Delta's pilot wages over the last few years are not responsible for their 20 something billion dollars in losses.
Doctors are responsible for one life at a time.
I am responsible for 700/ day.
You sound pissed off.
Maybe you are not happy.
Please don't take offense, we simply have a difference of opinion.
Delta pilots earn what they earn every time they fly.
Again I say, sometimes you earn the years salary in one night.
It's all a matter of what one thinks it's worth.
I for one believe it to be worth serious bling-bling.
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Joe:
While you may think you are worth the big bling, the courts, the flying public and the the companys are not seeing it your way. If you strap on the jet alot then you are the exception. More of your guys need to follow your lead and get off the coach or the ski slope on reserve. Dont get me wrong big money and minimal work is good work if you can get it, but how long can you rape the company before the company has no more to offer.
The real issue is not the pay rate, it is the productivity. ALPA demanded the best of both worlds, max pay and minimal work, that is a combo that will eventualy end with lots of pay for no work. That is where ALPA has driven the pilot groups to, and now they are all giving back big time.
Dont you think a fair wage and realistic work rules would have been a better option as opposed to the burn the house down mentality of ALPA.
ALPA is out for ALPA, force unproductive contracts on the airline so they have to hire more pilots than they need, all to pump up the union membership of ALPA.
We have heard it all before about how you guys are the brain surgeons of the industry and are worth every dollar ect..... but when is enough enough ??? is working 10 to 12 days a month making the money you guys were making not enough ??? if one carrier got 300 bucks and hour are you then due more ??? is 1500 bucks an hour enough (most likley not) where does it end ??? You guys should have taken a fair wage and stopped pointing at other work groups for pay cuts including managment.
ALPA will not be happy until the have run every carrier into the ground and forced many pilots back to square one some where else.
I am very happy with my situation and I can assure you ALPA is a four letter word around my union. We have seen the destrucive nature of ALPA and we will fight tooth and nail to keep ALPA off our property.
While you may think you are worth the big bling, the courts, the flying public and the the companys are not seeing it your way. If you strap on the jet alot then you are the exception. More of your guys need to follow your lead and get off the coach or the ski slope on reserve. Dont get me wrong big money and minimal work is good work if you can get it, but how long can you rape the company before the company has no more to offer.
The real issue is not the pay rate, it is the productivity. ALPA demanded the best of both worlds, max pay and minimal work, that is a combo that will eventualy end with lots of pay for no work. That is where ALPA has driven the pilot groups to, and now they are all giving back big time.
Dont you think a fair wage and realistic work rules would have been a better option as opposed to the burn the house down mentality of ALPA.
ALPA is out for ALPA, force unproductive contracts on the airline so they have to hire more pilots than they need, all to pump up the union membership of ALPA.
We have heard it all before about how you guys are the brain surgeons of the industry and are worth every dollar ect..... but when is enough enough ??? is working 10 to 12 days a month making the money you guys were making not enough ??? if one carrier got 300 bucks and hour are you then due more ??? is 1500 bucks an hour enough (most likley not) where does it end ??? You guys should have taken a fair wage and stopped pointing at other work groups for pay cuts including managment.
ALPA will not be happy until the have run every carrier into the ground and forced many pilots back to square one some where else.
I am very happy with my situation and I can assure you ALPA is a four letter word around my union. We have seen the destrucive nature of ALPA and we will fight tooth and nail to keep ALPA off our property.
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The real issue is a failed business plan, the failure to change the business plan in a changing industry, and the failure to prepare for bad times in good times.
Not the pilot salaries.
Are you trying to tell me that the 20 billion plus that Delta has lost in the last few years, which buy the way is probably more than the entire industry has earned in the last 20 years, is because of the pilots?
I don't think so.
Not the pilot salaries.
Are you trying to tell me that the 20 billion plus that Delta has lost in the last few years, which buy the way is probably more than the entire industry has earned in the last 20 years, is because of the pilots?
I don't think so.
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
The failed business plan idea is getting to the heart of the matter - Conversations about what you are worth are great, but Business 101 says that when:
operating cost < income = hapiness
operating cost > income = unhappiness
OK - We all know the real deal is how do those operating costs get allocated, ie does CEO Jerry Grinstein and the team get to spend it on massages and parties, while Dan Dare and the crew get to fly approaches into the Rockies every winter night, or is there some joint acceptance that whatever margin the business makes needs to be divided up on the black side of the dollars, not the red side?
operating cost < income = hapiness
operating cost > income = unhappiness
OK - We all know the real deal is how do those operating costs get allocated, ie does CEO Jerry Grinstein and the team get to spend it on massages and parties, while Dan Dare and the crew get to fly approaches into the Rockies every winter night, or is there some joint acceptance that whatever margin the business makes needs to be divided up on the black side of the dollars, not the red side?
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Joe,
Its always the business plan, the companys fault, did you ever stop and think that the pilots contract left no wiggle room for change with scope clauses and all the ALPA non productivity loop holes for the pilots. The ALPA contracts of the past made it almost impossible to change the business plan without the pilots screaming foul.
I am sure every time the company tried to get more productivity out of the pilots ALPA faught for just the oposite (sp) the pilots were not interested in working more to help the CO, instead the demanded to work less and get paid more. We are seeing the fruits of that demand.
Like I said above its not so much the rate of pay its the lack of productivity for the money. You cannot have it both ways max pay and no work or work 8 days a month.
Look no doubt about it you guys had the world by the tail for a short while, but if it seems to good to be true it most likley is and that is the case with the ALPA carriers. The days of max pay to sit at the house on reserve with no threat of being called are over, or for the airlines sake I hope they are over.
The finger pointing will continue I am sure to the bitter end, both sides blaming the other but managment always has the upper hand and will continue to. ALPA pilots should stop trying the burn the house down and hammer out a fair deal.
Its always the business plan, the companys fault, did you ever stop and think that the pilots contract left no wiggle room for change with scope clauses and all the ALPA non productivity loop holes for the pilots. The ALPA contracts of the past made it almost impossible to change the business plan without the pilots screaming foul.
I am sure every time the company tried to get more productivity out of the pilots ALPA faught for just the oposite (sp) the pilots were not interested in working more to help the CO, instead the demanded to work less and get paid more. We are seeing the fruits of that demand.
Like I said above its not so much the rate of pay its the lack of productivity for the money. You cannot have it both ways max pay and no work or work 8 days a month.
Look no doubt about it you guys had the world by the tail for a short while, but if it seems to good to be true it most likley is and that is the case with the ALPA carriers. The days of max pay to sit at the house on reserve with no threat of being called are over, or for the airlines sake I hope they are over.
The finger pointing will continue I am sure to the bitter end, both sides blaming the other but managment always has the upper hand and will continue to. ALPA pilots should stop trying the burn the house down and hammer out a fair deal.
Rantsalot and Pprune Gang: Many pilots and laymen seem totally unaware of the fact that thousands of pilots fly two-pilot jets with no automation, on legs which only last 30-50 minutes, no matter what the weather. Many duty days are scheduled at 11-12 hours with no rest, but are five-seven consecutive flights (three different aircraft, requiring long, originating preflights...) per duty period NOT productive? The hardest-working pilots in this company are the First Officers (on my right) with no automation, beginning with only 9 hours in a noisy hotel.
The ALPA group at my carrier volunteered to take a pay cut of (15, then 25) 40%, and our previous pay was a good fraction less than Delta's and United's pay. My company never even attempted to exercize its maximum route authority on cargo routes in the 90's, which might have increased profits at a very disproportionate rate-so just how is that the MEC's fault? Somebody out there will find a connection. The company hires pilots, leases/buys aircraft, the pilots fly trips which are created by the company. Why did profit not count so much unless passengers were the cargo? On our temporary agreement, why does the company not WANT to guarantee us more than 4 hours pay per day? Pay is the greater of scheduled versus actual block hours. Contract "rigs" force the company to use us more hours per day. Therefore, IF they truly want us to become more productive-we read about it in the newspapers-why was the daily minimum LOWERED (we agreed to it, somehow)?
And so, how is our MEC to be continuously blamed for the various problems here?
And why is a voluntary 40% pay reduction not enough?
Let's just be clear about the small fraction of pilots who fly the large widebodies. Why should a narrowbody B-737, DC-9 or MD-80 FO make very little more than a city or school bus driver in Seattle?
Let's read about what these carriers pay to the lucrative bankruptcy law firms. Those guys sometimes charge about $800/hour....market rates, are they not?
We are only worth what we can negotiate, or does that only apply to those with a three-piece suit and a "shingle" on the wall? What really upset our so-called leaders in upper mgmt. is the fact that our MEC went to the Creditor's Committee and suggested firing our "leadership" and bringing in a Trustee, which is a possibility: we can only dream, I suppose. Some mgmts do their best to emerge healthy from Chapter 11. Others despise all of their employees/staff and in the effort to "overreach", do everything possible to exploit the situation and outsource much more than the competition.
To repeat, we VOLUNTARILY took pay cuts worth 40%.
Read what the Delta Bankruptcy judge last week told the Delta bankruptcy attorney in the hearings, as an apparent contradiction of upper mgmt's apparent true motivations (union-busting), and she is expected to be impartial and objective. She is the Judge.
Southwest's 737 pilots are the highest-paid 737 pilots anywhere, from what I've read, and Southwest is very successful. They have also been heavily unionized for many years. Woops, the secret is out...but this is an illogical contradiction, or a result of superb mgmt. and leadership. Any CEO can count numbers and despise, gaze scornfully upon his own people-look at most of the US airline industry. Our CEO gave us the same old mindless mantra, that he is working for the stockholders-but the present stock will soon be worth 0. Maybe he.... forgot.. to tell us about the future stockholders
... One of our "gentleman" who is on the Board of Directors, owns a company which apparently sells the airline many of its supplies. Economical 'outsourcing', or something lucrative (for him) "under the table"?
I'm looking forward to the responses.
The ALPA group at my carrier volunteered to take a pay cut of (15, then 25) 40%, and our previous pay was a good fraction less than Delta's and United's pay. My company never even attempted to exercize its maximum route authority on cargo routes in the 90's, which might have increased profits at a very disproportionate rate-so just how is that the MEC's fault? Somebody out there will find a connection. The company hires pilots, leases/buys aircraft, the pilots fly trips which are created by the company. Why did profit not count so much unless passengers were the cargo? On our temporary agreement, why does the company not WANT to guarantee us more than 4 hours pay per day? Pay is the greater of scheduled versus actual block hours. Contract "rigs" force the company to use us more hours per day. Therefore, IF they truly want us to become more productive-we read about it in the newspapers-why was the daily minimum LOWERED (we agreed to it, somehow)?
And so, how is our MEC to be continuously blamed for the various problems here?
And why is a voluntary 40% pay reduction not enough?
Let's just be clear about the small fraction of pilots who fly the large widebodies. Why should a narrowbody B-737, DC-9 or MD-80 FO make very little more than a city or school bus driver in Seattle?
Let's read about what these carriers pay to the lucrative bankruptcy law firms. Those guys sometimes charge about $800/hour....market rates, are they not?
We are only worth what we can negotiate, or does that only apply to those with a three-piece suit and a "shingle" on the wall? What really upset our so-called leaders in upper mgmt. is the fact that our MEC went to the Creditor's Committee and suggested firing our "leadership" and bringing in a Trustee, which is a possibility: we can only dream, I suppose. Some mgmts do their best to emerge healthy from Chapter 11. Others despise all of their employees/staff and in the effort to "overreach", do everything possible to exploit the situation and outsource much more than the competition.
To repeat, we VOLUNTARILY took pay cuts worth 40%.
Read what the Delta Bankruptcy judge last week told the Delta bankruptcy attorney in the hearings, as an apparent contradiction of upper mgmt's apparent true motivations (union-busting), and she is expected to be impartial and objective. She is the Judge.
Southwest's 737 pilots are the highest-paid 737 pilots anywhere, from what I've read, and Southwest is very successful. They have also been heavily unionized for many years. Woops, the secret is out...but this is an illogical contradiction, or a result of superb mgmt. and leadership. Any CEO can count numbers and despise, gaze scornfully upon his own people-look at most of the US airline industry. Our CEO gave us the same old mindless mantra, that he is working for the stockholders-but the present stock will soon be worth 0. Maybe he.... forgot.. to tell us about the future stockholders
... One of our "gentleman" who is on the Board of Directors, owns a company which apparently sells the airline many of its supplies. Economical 'outsourcing', or something lucrative (for him) "under the table"?I'm looking forward to the responses.
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One more time, it is not about the pay rate only its about the lack of productivity. This has been a problem brewing for decades (sp)
more money, less work, more money, less work until we arrive at where we were prior ti 9-11 with max pay and no work or very minimal work. The FAA says you can fly 1000 hours a year, but the ALPA guys force a 500 or 600 hr deal on the airlines, forcing 9sp) them to hire more pilots to cover the flying, all so ALPA can get more members paying more dues, read Capt. Worths half a million dollar package.
The ALPA guys took and took for many years and gave no work in return, now the house of card is falling and the fingers are all pointed at managment.
ALPA has just as driven the airlines to where they are with the help of managment, thats a fact stop pointing the finger every where else but at ALPA, start working more and maybe the world would have a bit more respect for the profession (sp)
more money, less work, more money, less work until we arrive at where we were prior ti 9-11 with max pay and no work or very minimal work. The FAA says you can fly 1000 hours a year, but the ALPA guys force a 500 or 600 hr deal on the airlines, forcing 9sp) them to hire more pilots to cover the flying, all so ALPA can get more members paying more dues, read Capt. Worths half a million dollar package.
The ALPA guys took and took for many years and gave no work in return, now the house of card is falling and the fingers are all pointed at managment.
ALPA has just as driven the airlines to where they are with the help of managment, thats a fact stop pointing the finger every where else but at ALPA, start working more and maybe the world would have a bit more respect for the profession (sp)
rantsalot,
There is something very suspicious about the level of venom and animosity you've displayed toward Delta and ALPA in this thread. If you don't have ALPA where you work, what do you care what they do ?
Your objections are "...about the lack of productivity." ? Baloney. What do you care about how productive Delta pilots are ? Your rantings go far beyond some detached, uninvolved observer's "philosophical" oppositions to something he sees other people doing....it's personal. No one gets as wrapped around the axle as you are without personal involvement or a psychiatric disorder.
What's your story, Kid ? Try to get a job with Delta in the past, didn't make the cut, and now you'll spend the rest of your life hating eveything associated with Delta ?
Be glad they didn't hire you. Think what a mess you'd be in now...having to work for a lousy $130K a year.
Nope...it's PERSONAL for you...admit it.
There is something very suspicious about the level of venom and animosity you've displayed toward Delta and ALPA in this thread. If you don't have ALPA where you work, what do you care what they do ?
Your objections are "...about the lack of productivity." ? Baloney. What do you care about how productive Delta pilots are ? Your rantings go far beyond some detached, uninvolved observer's "philosophical" oppositions to something he sees other people doing....it's personal. No one gets as wrapped around the axle as you are without personal involvement or a psychiatric disorder.
What's your story, Kid ? Try to get a job with Delta in the past, didn't make the cut, and now you'll spend the rest of your life hating eveything associated with Delta ?
Be glad they didn't hire you. Think what a mess you'd be in now...having to work for a lousy $130K a year.
Nope...it's PERSONAL for you...admit it.
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I am not angery at Delta and I have never applyed to any ALPA carrier. The last thing I want to do is go to work and listed to no-stop bitching about how bad the pilots have it and how its everybody eleses fault.
Every ALPA pilot I have ever met is unhappy and hates the company that he works for, and is constantly trying dodge flying and cheat the company out of a days wage.
ALPA pilots should try flying for a living instead of gameing (sp) the reserve, sick call, training, ALPA scheduling system designed to force the company to have more pilots on the property than needed.
Checking your work ethic at the door must be a ALPA requirment before they will issue the ALPA membership card.
I know, I know, its not your fault its ??? managment, the rampers
the mech's the flight attendants, boeing, or maybe even George W. ??????
Until you guys change your attitudes and your work ethic about flying airplanes you are headed to the same destination as the Titanic....good luck with that
Every ALPA pilot I have ever met is unhappy and hates the company that he works for, and is constantly trying dodge flying and cheat the company out of a days wage.
ALPA pilots should try flying for a living instead of gameing (sp) the reserve, sick call, training, ALPA scheduling system designed to force the company to have more pilots on the property than needed.
Checking your work ethic at the door must be a ALPA requirment before they will issue the ALPA membership card.
I know, I know, its not your fault its ??? managment, the rampers
the mech's the flight attendants, boeing, or maybe even George W. ??????
Until you guys change your attitudes and your work ethic about flying airplanes you are headed to the same destination as the Titanic....good luck with that
rantsalot,
If you've never applied to any ALPA carrier and don't work for one, then what ALPA does is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
And sure, you don't have anything against Delta pilots:
Dec.12, 18:36..."well it's payback time and how sweet it is."
Dec13, 00:36... "...I only hope they are all on the street soon."
"....jerks..."
If you've never worked with Delta pilots, you have no idea what they talk about. Everything you say is so far off base it's hard to know where to start in rebutting it all.
You're just not telling the truth, Kid. And you've got some serious personal issues that have nothing to do with Delta or ALPA. I hope you get the help you need.
If you've never applied to any ALPA carrier and don't work for one, then what ALPA does is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
And sure, you don't have anything against Delta pilots:
Dec.12, 18:36..."well it's payback time and how sweet it is."
Dec13, 00:36... "...I only hope they are all on the street soon."
"....jerks..."
If you've never worked with Delta pilots, you have no idea what they talk about. Everything you say is so far off base it's hard to know where to start in rebutting it all.
You're just not telling the truth, Kid. And you've got some serious personal issues that have nothing to do with Delta or ALPA. I hope you get the help you need.
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Shortfinalfred,
No hatred not a managment guy or been turned down just a pilot tired of what ALPA has done to the profession. The non-stop crying and finger pointing is tradmark ALPA. In ALPA's world pilots get max pay while sitting at home and for not flying. Its never the pilots fault. Not flying and getting paid is what helped drive the airlines into the ground.
prior to 9-11 it was ha ha ha and now it is boo hoo hoo, its all fun and games until some one looses a job, has to sell the house, the boat, and put the kids in public school, then its managments fault or a bad business plan. Its never that ALPA raped the airline and laughed about it, its never the lazy pilots that gamed the reserve system while skiing (sp) ect... the list of scamming and cheating is long and I am sure you ALPA guys know all the tricks to screw the company and still get paid.
The ALPA guys reminded us all in 2000 that they were the brain surgeons, the neuro surgeons of the industry and worth every dollar. Yah right what are you calling yourselves now ?? physician assistant's ???? I know, I know, Doctors kill one at a time, have heard it over and over, the ALPA guys kling to that line in hopes it will change the minds of the public and the airlines. News flash ALPA guys are not doctors its apples and oranges. It's classic "if you tell a lie loud enough and long enough it will become truth. If they have it so good see if ALPA will pay to send you out of work guys to med school ???
Do you want to fly airplanes or just talk about it ??? why dosent ALPA teach you guys how to game the LOL insurance so you can really sit home long term and collect a pay check and not work ????
Look guys I am happy and in a great mood until I hear a ALPA guy on the van or at the bar bitching and crying about how bad they have it. You guys strangled the goose and laughed while you were doing it, now it is dead or dieing ???
Managment guys have a back up plan or a golden parachute ect... it is the pilots and the other employee groups that suffer the after effects of the burn the house down mentality of ALPA. You guys have alot to be proud of ??????
No hatred not a managment guy or been turned down just a pilot tired of what ALPA has done to the profession. The non-stop crying and finger pointing is tradmark ALPA. In ALPA's world pilots get max pay while sitting at home and for not flying. Its never the pilots fault. Not flying and getting paid is what helped drive the airlines into the ground.
prior to 9-11 it was ha ha ha and now it is boo hoo hoo, its all fun and games until some one looses a job, has to sell the house, the boat, and put the kids in public school, then its managments fault or a bad business plan. Its never that ALPA raped the airline and laughed about it, its never the lazy pilots that gamed the reserve system while skiing (sp) ect... the list of scamming and cheating is long and I am sure you ALPA guys know all the tricks to screw the company and still get paid.
The ALPA guys reminded us all in 2000 that they were the brain surgeons, the neuro surgeons of the industry and worth every dollar. Yah right what are you calling yourselves now ?? physician assistant's ???? I know, I know, Doctors kill one at a time, have heard it over and over, the ALPA guys kling to that line in hopes it will change the minds of the public and the airlines. News flash ALPA guys are not doctors its apples and oranges. It's classic "if you tell a lie loud enough and long enough it will become truth. If they have it so good see if ALPA will pay to send you out of work guys to med school ???
Do you want to fly airplanes or just talk about it ??? why dosent ALPA teach you guys how to game the LOL insurance so you can really sit home long term and collect a pay check and not work ????
Look guys I am happy and in a great mood until I hear a ALPA guy on the van or at the bar bitching and crying about how bad they have it. You guys strangled the goose and laughed while you were doing it, now it is dead or dieing ???
Managment guys have a back up plan or a golden parachute ect... it is the pilots and the other employee groups that suffer the after effects of the burn the house down mentality of ALPA. You guys have alot to be proud of ??????
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Well, the airline business is a little topsy turvy these days. I remember a few short years ago the Southwest pilots were called scabs because they weren't in ALPA.
Deltoids were a cut above, wore double brested uniform coats in summertime and would not give out jumpseats because it was deemed "unprofessional" by both the pilots and the company. The "RD's" (Real Deltas) looked down their nose at the crews of questionable provenance from Western and Northeast who found their way onto the DAL seniority list.
United was going to choke the golden goose and use the ESOP to make sure the "right" management was in control. They carried scab lists and were at the cutting edge of political correctness with segregated applicant pools in honor of the EEOC settlement.
Years later Southwest has some lucky ex-UAL and ex-DAL pilots in their newhire classes and many more begging for an interview.
The poles may reverse again, who knows?
Deltoids were a cut above, wore double brested uniform coats in summertime and would not give out jumpseats because it was deemed "unprofessional" by both the pilots and the company. The "RD's" (Real Deltas) looked down their nose at the crews of questionable provenance from Western and Northeast who found their way onto the DAL seniority list.
United was going to choke the golden goose and use the ESOP to make sure the "right" management was in control. They carried scab lists and were at the cutting edge of political correctness with segregated applicant pools in honor of the EEOC settlement.
Years later Southwest has some lucky ex-UAL and ex-DAL pilots in their newhire classes and many more begging for an interview.
The poles may reverse again, who knows?
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: melbourne fl
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lets hope the lucky ones that get on at Southwest, Jet Blue or Air Tran dont bring the ALPA play book with them, or those companys with be headed south too.
We are all aviators but for years the ALPA guys were just pricks to be around, giving non ALPA guys a hard time about the jumpseat (even after DAL could give it up) they were jerks in the van and in the bar. The only time the werent was when they were asking me for a jumpseat ????
The ALPA guys dug themselves a big hole for many years and it will take twice as long to dig out. The first thing that must happen is for ALPA to stop digging.
I have never turned away an ALPA guy for the jumpseat, in fact I allways say glad to have you and find a good seat. I even let them board with the crew. I cannot tell you how many times I have gotten 20 questions and a ration of crap when trying to ride in an ALPA jumpseat.
I only wish I could hand the same back to them but it is really bad form and will not be happening with me.
Unfortunetly (sp) 99% of the ALPA guys have drank the ALPA kool aid and are incapable of seeing themseleves as the rest of the world sees them.
We are all aviators but for years the ALPA guys were just pricks to be around, giving non ALPA guys a hard time about the jumpseat (even after DAL could give it up) they were jerks in the van and in the bar. The only time the werent was when they were asking me for a jumpseat ????
The ALPA guys dug themselves a big hole for many years and it will take twice as long to dig out. The first thing that must happen is for ALPA to stop digging.
I have never turned away an ALPA guy for the jumpseat, in fact I allways say glad to have you and find a good seat. I even let them board with the crew. I cannot tell you how many times I have gotten 20 questions and a ration of crap when trying to ride in an ALPA jumpseat.
I only wish I could hand the same back to them but it is really bad form and will not be happening with me.
Unfortunetly (sp) 99% of the ALPA guys have drank the ALPA kool aid and are incapable of seeing themseleves as the rest of the world sees them.
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: FL, USA
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Good grief, what a sad muppet....
Rantsalot, if you spent just 10% of the energy you have wasted ranting about a union you are not even a member of (!) you could achieve anything - yes, even brain surgery....
FYI: I've worked at 7 airlines in 4 continents, and they all have the same blend of characters. We all get to hear about the ones that don't want to pull their weight. Some wear it as a badge of honour, and advertise....
Please spend more time on your spelling, punctuation and grammar - your posts are a verbal jigsaw puzzle we all have to piece together on the wing....thanks in anticipation, old chap....
Rantsalot, if you spent just 10% of the energy you have wasted ranting about a union you are not even a member of (!) you could achieve anything - yes, even brain surgery....
FYI: I've worked at 7 airlines in 4 continents, and they all have the same blend of characters. We all get to hear about the ones that don't want to pull their weight. Some wear it as a badge of honour, and advertise....
Please spend more time on your spelling, punctuation and grammar - your posts are a verbal jigsaw puzzle we all have to piece together on the wing....thanks in anticipation, old chap....