What are you Pilots going to do when you retire?
Join Date: Jul 1998
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It seems more and more important to me that we have to enjoy our lives before finishing flying; another expat friend of mine has just died only 2 years after hanging up his workboots. He wasn't a flier, but i've heard of so many flight deck friends pop off so soon after retiring. At least, that's what my wife tries to get me to do, with varying degrees of success!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Peoples Republic of EU
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Spinnaker wrote
Replace "flying" with "work"! Any job that pays the big bucks (over 60k) these days makes you work your ar*e off!
My father spoke to the pensions actuary at his electronic engineering firm 15 years ago (before he retired). The actuary told him on average they paid out pensions for only 4 years on average.
Every year from 60-65 that you work reduces your expected lifespan by a huge amount. I hope to be at least part time by 55 (10 days a month). Will probably work till 60 if I'm happy to do so.
I save 1/3 of my salary into investments and pensions every month and have done so since my first flying job so hopefully will be able to choose when I retire
But got no kids yet and everyone who has kids seems to be working to 60 now
Once I've retired I'll learn to fish and do my hobbies. Mrs Scottie will still be in full time work so will get the house to myself... I may of course be living in a bedsit by then 
I know some really good fishing spots, and places to sail. Beer to brew, House to paint, garden to dig, social life to live and family to enjoy. All of these things I used to do before flying. Welcome back life
My father spoke to the pensions actuary at his electronic engineering firm 15 years ago (before he retired). The actuary told him on average they paid out pensions for only 4 years on average.
Every year from 60-65 that you work reduces your expected lifespan by a huge amount. I hope to be at least part time by 55 (10 days a month). Will probably work till 60 if I'm happy to do so.
I save 1/3 of my salary into investments and pensions every month and have done so since my first flying job so hopefully will be able to choose when I retire
But got no kids yet and everyone who has kids seems to be working to 60 now
Once I've retired I'll learn to fish and do my hobbies. Mrs Scottie will still be in full time work
so will get the house to myself... I may of course be living in a bedsit by then
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: london
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Christ, you'd think you guys were talking about 'when I get out' (of prison).
Things AREN'T that bad, look at other industries. Most of them aren't able to decide (within reason) when they can retire.
Things AREN'T that bad, look at other industries. Most of them aren't able to decide (within reason) when they can retire.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: England.
Posts: 440
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What'll I do when I retire?
Hmmm....lets see....a somersault, two backflips, a cartwheel....
......and when I've calmed down I'll get my life back.
It'll be especially nice not to have to work for, and to an alarmingly large extent with, a bunch of w******. Aviation seems to attract them.
Hmmm....lets see....a somersault, two backflips, a cartwheel....
......and when I've calmed down I'll get my life back.
It'll be especially nice not to have to work for, and to an alarmingly large extent with, a bunch of w******. Aviation seems to attract them.
What retirement? You must be too young or too far away to understand the basics of the US airline mess. Many of our pilots can work as (747) Flight Engineers after age 60. But when they officially retire, they never mention this in the company rag. This always seems odd-are the pilots ashamed of what they do? 
Many US airline pensions (many airlines had none, even with a union contract) were grossly underfunded in the good old days. Now they cannot afford (maybe FEDEX and UPS, DHL can) to put criticically needed cash into them.
If the US PBGC takes over, one's annual income after a long career as pilot might be as low as $25,000. Some retirement, isn't it? The PBGC will be going soon to the US taxpayers to prop up this division. Airlines are only ONE industry which might need the PBGC. Other US industries might also soon lean on the PBGC until there is nothing there. Hello taxpayers-many, many billions would be sought after.
Among the three people on the PBGC, two of them also run the ATSB, which decides whether to loan airlines government money at low rates.
Is there not a serious conflict of interest here?
Some part-time flying with Netjets (doubt that it is possible), might help us survive ok. Imagine that many thousands of retired pilots will soon try to work somewhere to help make financial ends meet.
Many US airline pensions (many airlines had none, even with a union contract) were grossly underfunded in the good old days. Now they cannot afford (maybe FEDEX and UPS, DHL can) to put criticically needed cash into them.
If the US PBGC takes over, one's annual income after a long career as pilot might be as low as $25,000. Some retirement, isn't it? The PBGC will be going soon to the US taxpayers to prop up this division. Airlines are only ONE industry which might need the PBGC. Other US industries might also soon lean on the PBGC until there is nothing there. Hello taxpayers-many, many billions would be sought after.
Among the three people on the PBGC, two of them also run the ATSB, which decides whether to loan airlines government money at low rates.
Is there not a serious conflict of interest here?
Some part-time flying with Netjets (doubt that it is possible), might help us survive ok. Imagine that many thousands of retired pilots will soon try to work somewhere to help make financial ends meet.
Last edited by Ignition Override; 20th Jul 2005 at 04:19.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Great Southern Land
Age: 73
Posts: 511
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I quite often joke with FOs that after I retire I'll come back to drive one of those 4WD safety cars racing all over the airfield chasing off the birds ........... and looking at aircraft!!!!!!
Jeeeeeeez I'm a sad case.
Jeeeeeeez I'm a sad case.
Last edited by Offchocks; 16th Jul 2005 at 06:27.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Sydney NSW
Posts: 513
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hi fowler & terryjoint
Mrs E very happy with boats Wg Cdr, she just never got to like planes! She like the idea of charter tho', she ask "How much an hour?" No doubt another sly dig. I always said money was made flat to build on not made round to go round... Unless it's beer o'clock of course. My generation was doubly lucky, pay and nothing like the cost of living newlyweds face today.
Hi TJ, yellow fin and wahoo coming up! Spot on about ASI. I catch a few black fish off the pier at Tartar Steps as bait. Solomon's runs the stores now which as any Saint can tell you just about says everything. One Boat filling station still open and I require petrol for the dinghy and diesel for motor and desalination. You still need a permit to land.
Mrs E is thrilled at the thought of seeing my homeland. Your right about BVI, mebbe I should sell on somewhere else. But Callwood's Rum! The Loose Mongoose! Pusser's Bar! Village Quay! Willie T!
Hi TJ, yellow fin and wahoo coming up! Spot on about ASI. I catch a few black fish off the pier at Tartar Steps as bait. Solomon's runs the stores now which as any Saint can tell you just about says everything. One Boat filling station still open and I require petrol for the dinghy and diesel for motor and desalination. You still need a permit to land.
Mrs E is thrilled at the thought of seeing my homeland. Your right about BVI, mebbe I should sell on somewhere else. But Callwood's Rum! The Loose Mongoose! Pusser's Bar! Village Quay! Willie T!
Personally I would go tomorrow if I could afford to - but the mortgage has to be paid and the kids have to get through University before that happy day. Don't get me wrong, I have been flying for thirty years, military and civilian, its often been fun and usually challenging but the time comes when I no longer want to put up with poor management, lousy rosters, and pseudo-American yukspeak from human resources departments - oh yes and I would like to no longer endure fear of the telephone when on standby!
The older one gets the faster time passes, the family suffers, and well there are just so many other things in life to look forward to - just a few more years........................
The older one gets the faster time passes, the family suffers, and well there are just so many other things in life to look forward to - just a few more years........................
Retirement
I suppose it's because I always wanted to fly that I still do.
The only bit that spoiled part of it was the Airline bit for all the reasons that "beamer" has mentioned.
It was great in the beginning to whizz around in something big and new but the gloss wears off when people start to take advantage, with total disregard for any other life you might be entitled to.
Now I've retired, I write my own roster, take days off when I wish and folks actually seem to be grateful for the contribution I make to their flying, so much so that I even forget to charge when it's a young wannabee who seems to need to fly as much as I did.
Yep, the Military was great, instructing at all levels is what you make it but retiring from the never-satisfied world of the Airline pilot was the best move I ever made.
I don't get spotty/blotchy/twitchy anymore due to lack of proper sleep, lack of proper restdays and the bloody telephone ringing again !!
But just wait, it will go full circle.
The young guys today aren't stupid.
They just aren't going into the Airline business..................until it shows a bit of appreciation, either financial or wrt. acceptable lifestyle, particularly later in their career.
Sleeve.
The only bit that spoiled part of it was the Airline bit for all the reasons that "beamer" has mentioned.
It was great in the beginning to whizz around in something big and new but the gloss wears off when people start to take advantage, with total disregard for any other life you might be entitled to.
Now I've retired, I write my own roster, take days off when I wish and folks actually seem to be grateful for the contribution I make to their flying, so much so that I even forget to charge when it's a young wannabee who seems to need to fly as much as I did.
Yep, the Military was great, instructing at all levels is what you make it but retiring from the never-satisfied world of the Airline pilot was the best move I ever made.
I don't get spotty/blotchy/twitchy anymore due to lack of proper sleep, lack of proper restdays and the bloody telephone ringing again !!
But just wait, it will go full circle.
The young guys today aren't stupid.
They just aren't going into the Airline business..................until it shows a bit of appreciation, either financial or wrt. acceptable lifestyle, particularly later in their career.
Sleeve.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Scottish FIR
Posts: 344
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I reckon, looking at the posts here, we could put out our own TV program. Instead of having ‘Grumpy Old Men’ we could have ‘Grumpy Old Pilots’ What a hoot, Rick Wakeman and Jeremy Clarkson eat your hearts out. I would love to be on television, swigging a bottle of the finest chardonnay going on about what has pissed me off with airlines AND getting a decent pay packet for doing it. Come on BBC, Channel 4, and ITV, how about it?
Registered User **
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sydney
Posts: 397
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sleeve:
Quote:
___________________________________________________
"The young guys today aren't stupid.
They just aren't going into the Airline business..................until it shows a bit of appreciation, either financial or wrt. acceptable lifestyle, particularly later in their career"
___________________________________________________
You are indeed correct, - (and I am a late starter) from what I have personally seen, and from what I know to be true from mates of mine who are seriously doing the hard yards in Northern OZ and commuterland in euroland - BM and Ryan, , it is a sacrifice that is not negotiable for me personally - given - Kids (they are my life) and the financial risk of it, not to mention the stress of having a machivellian HR department looking at my every move, but as a friend of mine who is a 47 capt said, "ya know , you're addicted, it is not going away easily" - he is right of course.
Honest, Kids are the beeeeze neeeeze, nothing comes close, and it never ceases to pi55 me off that "corporate" culture expects you to compromise that, its not just the lines that want that you know, its endemic in most professions.
so I guess, I'm destined for a "grumpy" tailwheel instructor in retirement then, worse could happen I guess.........actually thats my plan.
ps: did waaaaaaaay too much golf in uni to be bothering with it now
pps: The global "recovery" for uncontested superannuation/life policies(pensions) by the issuers on an annual basis is often in excess of 600Mil, that is to say , the issuers of Life/Pension policies collect the "uncontested" premium balances and absorb the principle paid(over the many years) without contest as a matter of normal operation.
In plain english this means that anyone who dies before their pay-out date , unless they have nominated and INFORMED, the said issuer company of the beneficiary , then the issuer of the policy gets the lot, very common amongst the scared under 30's who are lets face it (bungee jumping and Thai drug parties) more likely to ahem...........kick the bucket rather than die in a left-handed-erect-spin in a tail wheel.
I know many actuaries who have bugger all life insurance and no assurance.
Their perspective makes you think eh ?
Quote:
___________________________________________________
"The young guys today aren't stupid.
They just aren't going into the Airline business..................until it shows a bit of appreciation, either financial or wrt. acceptable lifestyle, particularly later in their career"
___________________________________________________
You are indeed correct, - (and I am a late starter) from what I have personally seen, and from what I know to be true from mates of mine who are seriously doing the hard yards in Northern OZ and commuterland in euroland - BM and Ryan, , it is a sacrifice that is not negotiable for me personally - given - Kids (they are my life) and the financial risk of it, not to mention the stress of having a machivellian HR department looking at my every move, but as a friend of mine who is a 47 capt said, "ya know , you're addicted, it is not going away easily" - he is right of course.
Honest, Kids are the beeeeze neeeeze, nothing comes close, and it never ceases to pi55 me off that "corporate" culture expects you to compromise that, its not just the lines that want that you know, its endemic in most professions.
so I guess, I'm destined for a "grumpy" tailwheel instructor in retirement then, worse could happen I guess.........actually thats my plan.
ps: did waaaaaaaay too much golf in uni to be bothering with it now
pps: The global "recovery" for uncontested superannuation/life policies(pensions) by the issuers on an annual basis is often in excess of 600Mil, that is to say , the issuers of Life/Pension policies collect the "uncontested" premium balances and absorb the principle paid(over the many years) without contest as a matter of normal operation.
In plain english this means that anyone who dies before their pay-out date , unless they have nominated and INFORMED, the said issuer company of the beneficiary , then the issuer of the policy gets the lot, very common amongst the scared under 30's who are lets face it (bungee jumping and Thai drug parties) more likely to ahem...........kick the bucket rather than die in a left-handed-erect-spin in a tail wheel.
I know many actuaries who have bugger all life insurance and no assurance.
Their perspective makes you think eh ?
Last edited by 7gcbc; 22nd Jul 2005 at 14:59.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: the beach
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
wallycycle:
What I would suggest is to look for that "dream job" ...if it is out there.
No pressure on you. You have done your part, and duty.
If something great shows up, take it and run. If not, do not sweat it, enjoy your retirement.
Good luck.
Oh, when you get there, let us know.
What I would suggest is to look for that "dream job" ...if it is out there.
No pressure on you. You have done your part, and duty.
If something great shows up, take it and run. If not, do not sweat it, enjoy your retirement.
Good luck.
Oh, when you get there, let us know.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Switzerland
Age: 55
Posts: 386
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm telling everybody in my company that when I retire, I will just sit on a plastic chair at the General Aviation Centre and dish out advice and opinions to all the crewmembers checking in or out. That pretty much guarantees that they will shoot me before they let me retire
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: way out west
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From a slightly different angle: When I retire (from the banking industry!) I'll go flying for a living!
Looked at a career in aviation from the start (in my mid 20's) and realised that apart from a relatively small percentage, it's a bit of a pi55 take: huge cash outlay, very few jobs and T&Cs like pooh.
But love flying so I flew singles and twins for fun, funded by lucrative banking rewards, slowly working toward licenses/ratings. Kids, mortgage, pension mainly sorted now.
Got all the tickets now and at just over 40, I'm no way too old for what I want out of the aviation industry as it now is: I'm hoping to instruct or fly corporate. Or both. Full time or part time don't really care as long as I enjoy my retirement!
And what about all the pilots coming into the industry now, tens of thousands of squid in debt?! My hat's off to that level of single minded dedication to a career. But ever worked out the opportunity cost of all that money? I mean, what a back foot to start on, financially. House? Kids? Pension? What will they do about retirement, I wonder? Something has to change....
the Wings
Looked at a career in aviation from the start (in my mid 20's) and realised that apart from a relatively small percentage, it's a bit of a pi55 take: huge cash outlay, very few jobs and T&Cs like pooh.
But love flying so I flew singles and twins for fun, funded by lucrative banking rewards, slowly working toward licenses/ratings. Kids, mortgage, pension mainly sorted now.
Got all the tickets now and at just over 40, I'm no way too old for what I want out of the aviation industry as it now is: I'm hoping to instruct or fly corporate. Or both. Full time or part time don't really care as long as I enjoy my retirement!
And what about all the pilots coming into the industry now, tens of thousands of squid in debt?! My hat's off to that level of single minded dedication to a career. But ever worked out the opportunity cost of all that money? I mean, what a back foot to start on, financially. House? Kids? Pension? What will they do about retirement, I wonder? Something has to change....
the Wings
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Thailand
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Having run a charter boat in the Med on a part-time basis for several years, I will simply turn to that full-time very soon. You don't have to be young and fit as a Gazelle to run such a business. Gentle sailing with guests ranging in age from teenagers to people almost as old as myself is a wonderful way to spend your time.
I would suggest that doing something on a more or less daily basis will be far better for you than simply retiring and doing nothing or very little. I have seen people retire and do nothing and they simply fade away in a few years and drop dead with boredom. Think positively, start again with something new if neccessary. But do keep busy and always have a reason to get up in the morning.
I would suggest that doing something on a more or less daily basis will be far better for you than simply retiring and doing nothing or very little. I have seen people retire and do nothing and they simply fade away in a few years and drop dead with boredom. Think positively, start again with something new if neccessary. But do keep busy and always have a reason to get up in the morning.
