Emirates opportunity.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: Asia
Emirates opportunity.
Hi guys,
Sorry to keep striking on a similar subject, but I need some help!
I've very recently received the green flag from Emirates, 777 - F/O. After reading on a lot of posts at this forum, I've become concerned.
Is it really that bad? Are DEC really making promotions very slim or impossible?
Is housing changing?
This is what I would be leaving behind. Current A320 Captain in Asian carrier.
Appreciate some feedback.
Thanks a lot,
Envar.
Sorry to keep striking on a similar subject, but I need some help!
I've very recently received the green flag from Emirates, 777 - F/O. After reading on a lot of posts at this forum, I've become concerned.
Is it really that bad? Are DEC really making promotions very slim or impossible?
Is housing changing?
This is what I would be leaving behind. Current A320 Captain in Asian carrier.
Appreciate some feedback.
Thanks a lot,
Envar.
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: S of N Pole
Expect 8 years+ in the RH seat, if you go as FO. You need to be sure you can live with that as well as giving up significant portion of control over your life (little control over accomodation etc). Fast upgrades disappeared some years ago.
What are prospects at your present employer?
What are prospects at your present employer?
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: S of N Pole
That was the case for guys who joined 4 years ago or earlier. Don't expect that to happen in the future. A guy joining now will be about number 1500 on the seniority list. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out approximately how many aircraft you'd need to have, before moving to the Left seat, taking into account retirements (of which there will not be many as the average age of crew is quite young).
Add to this the unknown number of DECs that will be parachuted-in, as and when convenient.
Add to this the unknown number of DECs that will be parachuted-in, as and when convenient.
Last edited by GreenDots; 12th July 2005 at 16:38.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: Asia
Thanks for the replies so far.
The airline that I fly for is doing ok, actually the whole region of south east asia is doing well, however it can't seem to grow from where it stands.
If I stick around I'm sure I would be stuck with 320's forever.
Current salary is aprox 7500US, no benefits at all.
Maybe Plank Cap is right, might not be to smart to give up a left seat.
I will keep waiting for some more replies.
Thanks a lot,
Envar.
The airline that I fly for is doing ok, actually the whole region of south east asia is doing well, however it can't seem to grow from where it stands.
If I stick around I'm sure I would be stuck with 320's forever.
Current salary is aprox 7500US, no benefits at all.
Maybe Plank Cap is right, might not be to smart to give up a left seat.
I will keep waiting for some more replies.
Thanks a lot,
Envar.
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
From: Suitcase
Never leave a good company for EK, never! EK is last option. I know alot of good guys that left their home countries thinking it was better there and are now trying to get back home but their old airlines won't give them their seniority back
Joined: Nov 2001
Aviation Qualifications: SLF
Posts: 541
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From: Not sure now
Envar, I don't want to blow sunshine up your arse, but since you say you are making $7500 with no benefits whatsover the package of an EK First Officer probably exceeds that.
As I have now opened myself up to lots of flack let me expalin my reasoning. You may have to do some personal computations to figure it out for your sitution, but if I were to be making $7500 per month in Taiwan ( for example ) I would have to pay 15 % tax, so now we are down to $6375. Then I would have to pay about $1500 per month for a pretty crappy three bedroom flat infested with mosquitoes. Now I'm down to $4875 per month and a lot of sleepless nights fighting off the mosquitoes. Oh, then there's the American School for my kids at $20,000 per year each. Since I don't have kids in school that is a moot point, but you get my drift.
The point here isn't how much the top line of your salary is, the point is how much the bottom line is. Do some careful research to figure that out. If you are supporting a home in your native country and have kids in school then it can be a strecth as an F.O.. If, on the other hand, you are unmarried and have no mortgage elsewhere almost your entire salary goes into your pocket.
I tend to agree with the general sentiment of not leaving a command to join the right seat of an airline. It was a very difficult choice for me when I did it and I would have to admit that I highly doubt I would have done so if Emirates had been hiring DECs at the time. The DEC problem is the single biggest barrier to entry for any new hire at Emirates. It makes the prospect of an upgrade uncertain and nobody likes to live with uncertainty.
Upgrades on the 777 fleet are ticking along right at 3 years, but we run out of F.O.s in April. The company policy is no transition upgrades so the guys on the A330 who are at or over 3 years are stuck in the right seat as DECs are hired. That is just plain wrong and it is what is making so many people angry. If the company could recognize that and change the policy it would improve morale considerably.
TP
As I have now opened myself up to lots of flack let me expalin my reasoning. You may have to do some personal computations to figure it out for your sitution, but if I were to be making $7500 per month in Taiwan ( for example ) I would have to pay 15 % tax, so now we are down to $6375. Then I would have to pay about $1500 per month for a pretty crappy three bedroom flat infested with mosquitoes. Now I'm down to $4875 per month and a lot of sleepless nights fighting off the mosquitoes. Oh, then there's the American School for my kids at $20,000 per year each. Since I don't have kids in school that is a moot point, but you get my drift.
The point here isn't how much the top line of your salary is, the point is how much the bottom line is. Do some careful research to figure that out. If you are supporting a home in your native country and have kids in school then it can be a strecth as an F.O.. If, on the other hand, you are unmarried and have no mortgage elsewhere almost your entire salary goes into your pocket.
I tend to agree with the general sentiment of not leaving a command to join the right seat of an airline. It was a very difficult choice for me when I did it and I would have to admit that I highly doubt I would have done so if Emirates had been hiring DECs at the time. The DEC problem is the single biggest barrier to entry for any new hire at Emirates. It makes the prospect of an upgrade uncertain and nobody likes to live with uncertainty.
Upgrades on the 777 fleet are ticking along right at 3 years, but we run out of F.O.s in April. The company policy is no transition upgrades so the guys on the A330 who are at or over 3 years are stuck in the right seat as DECs are hired. That is just plain wrong and it is what is making so many people angry. If the company could recognize that and change the policy it would improve morale considerably.
TP
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
From: Far Away
Spot on TP,accurate sitrep here in the sand and humidity.Extraordinary way of doing things at the moment.
Pilots hesitating to join,not showing up,leaving and FOs watching command opportunities pass by in front of their eyes.
I wish someone would explain why?
QB
Pilots hesitating to join,not showing up,leaving and FOs watching command opportunities pass by in front of their eyes.
I wish someone would explain why?
QB
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: City of blinding lights
Hello all,
ENVAR I understand your situation as I am in the same situation wright now or one step down as I have to pass the selec. Many sleepless night here.
I am A306 CMD driver in Europe. 8 years segnority Gets 7000 Euros Net. Working Wife + 2 years old kid..
I will go there and see what happen..(Selection) If pass I realy have no idea about what to do.
Tomorrow I will meet with a country Man who fly as F/O for EK on A330.
Never get a doubt before in my life exept this.
Any way, I beleive that None decision can not be worse then giving any regardlees the issue.
ENVAR wish you good luck and tell us the end of the story.
Happy trails !
ENVAR I understand your situation as I am in the same situation wright now or one step down as I have to pass the selec. Many sleepless night here.
I am A306 CMD driver in Europe. 8 years segnority Gets 7000 Euros Net. Working Wife + 2 years old kid..
I will go there and see what happen..(Selection) If pass I realy have no idea about what to do.
Tomorrow I will meet with a country Man who fly as F/O for EK on A330.
Never get a doubt before in my life exept this.
Any way, I beleive that None decision can not be worse then giving any regardlees the issue.
ENVAR wish you good luck and tell us the end of the story.
Happy trails !
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
From: Stockholm / Sweden
.... If You have already Your Command on a Jet with a decent company NEVER give it up for a right seat!
I left a 737 command behind me, went to the sandpit stuck in the RHS of a Triple-7 - looking for minimum 4 years til upgrade right now (upgrades strictly Seniority based!) - salary is definitively LOWER than my previous CMD Salary with about 4.750 Euro in the pocket plus housing, in a remote Tower in the desert -
I wouldn't do it ever again! Tand C's went down too far, doing also lots a 10 days DXB-BKK-SYD-AKL return trips with min rest on layovers- that's definitively NO fun anymore down here!
I'm trying to get my command back in Europe asap - but i'm still bonded a yaer - wait'n see - But: DONT DO IT - YOU'LL definitively regret it!
I left a 737 command behind me, went to the sandpit stuck in the RHS of a Triple-7 - looking for minimum 4 years til upgrade right now (upgrades strictly Seniority based!) - salary is definitively LOWER than my previous CMD Salary with about 4.750 Euro in the pocket plus housing, in a remote Tower in the desert -
I wouldn't do it ever again! Tand C's went down too far, doing also lots a 10 days DXB-BKK-SYD-AKL return trips with min rest on layovers- that's definitively NO fun anymore down here!
I'm trying to get my command back in Europe asap - but i'm still bonded a yaer - wait'n see - But: DONT DO IT - YOU'LL definitively regret it!
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 295
Likes: 0
From: Europe
Don't do it. You already have a LHS and the Airbus is a fine airplane. Keep in mind, EK will be sourcing more "cheap" pilots from India and Pakistan (from all of the low-cost carriers where EK salary seems like a dream salary in comparison) in the future and pilots will become the ultimate commodity.
I say stay in your current position. Let us know what you decide - good luck!
I say stay in your current position. Let us know what you decide - good luck!
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
From: wonderland
".....never give up the left seat for the right seat - no matter how big or shiny the jet...."
Totally disagree. I gave up a Training Captain position on a dinky jet to move to the RHS of a Widebody. Salary is more and I'm now based - and living at home in the US. I have prospects of a wide-body Command in three years.
No regrets here - that said, I have made a move to a company in the past that I would say was "sideways at best" - and thats polite code for a really bad move.
Have you ever been to Dubai ? In August ? Have you ever experienced 60C ? I've said it before, Gulf Air are an historical example of boom in that region. If you have a family to consider, you have a lot of thinking to do...
Great place to get experience as a young guy - and then move on. Tha salary is crap at EK. Even with the weak US industry situation, I don't know of many US pilots clamouring to get to the UAE.
Totally disagree. I gave up a Training Captain position on a dinky jet to move to the RHS of a Widebody. Salary is more and I'm now based - and living at home in the US. I have prospects of a wide-body Command in three years.
No regrets here - that said, I have made a move to a company in the past that I would say was "sideways at best" - and thats polite code for a really bad move.
Have you ever been to Dubai ? In August ? Have you ever experienced 60C ? I've said it before, Gulf Air are an historical example of boom in that region. If you have a family to consider, you have a lot of thinking to do...
Great place to get experience as a young guy - and then move on. Tha salary is crap at EK. Even with the weak US industry situation, I don't know of many US pilots clamouring to get to the UAE.
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: china
Envar,
1400 in the senority list ? Noop...You will be placed on B777 's senority list...with all the expected jets coming...soon you will have your LHS back ! Benefits are good..city is definitely better than yours right now...flights are different too and we(drivers) need that kind of chalenges to keep us alive. I was in your situation few months ago..made my decision...EK is better than my current job..I was fed up of small airlines.
Can I regret latter ? maybe but I know many guys who are very happy there and usually they don't come here to state it !
1400 in the senority list ? Noop...You will be placed on B777 's senority list...with all the expected jets coming...soon you will have your LHS back ! Benefits are good..city is definitely better than yours right now...flights are different too and we(drivers) need that kind of chalenges to keep us alive. I was in your situation few months ago..made my decision...EK is better than my current job..I was fed up of small airlines.
Can I regret latter ? maybe but I know many guys who are very happy there and usually they don't come here to state it !
