Swiss suspends 52 pilots
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Boys, 2 years ago you were already in the same scenario and you did nothing else.
Now the **** is coming again and the Swiss union behaviour is only reflecting the pilot corps itself:
Swiss workers are not able to defend their right, they have been cheated by the goverment and the employers. Reaction none!
Times will never be like before, only worsening and crying is no help, acting is however...
Come on and wake up before it is too late, sometimes one have to take risks to make things happen...
Now the **** is coming again and the Swiss union behaviour is only reflecting the pilot corps itself:
Swiss workers are not able to defend their right, they have been cheated by the goverment and the employers. Reaction none!
Times will never be like before, only worsening and crying is no help, acting is however...
Come on and wake up before it is too late, sometimes one have to take risks to make things happen...
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Kiling goose that laid golden eggs
Yep, Crossair pilots were stupid enough to slaughter the goose that laid golden eggs in August 2003, when for various reasons (fear, greed, xenophobia) a majority voted to accept the crappy proposal from management.
The junior pilots voted mainly in favour because they wanted the money to make a new start somewhere else.
Senior pilots voted mainly in favour for because they though that this sacrifice (mainly foreign pilots) would make the peace with the ex-Swissair überpilotinos.
I can understand the concern that these Saab pilots have, because for almost 3 years Crossair pilots have been under constant and real threat of termination, unfortunately it´s their own fault as they sold themselves out in August 2003. They just didn´t realise it back then.
So now they float on sh!t creek without a paddle, waiting for Judgement Day with only two options left: 1) accept that it´s over, or 2) industrial action.
My guess is that they will go for option #1. Why? Because they said so themselves:
The junior pilots voted mainly in favour because they wanted the money to make a new start somewhere else.
Senior pilots voted mainly in favour for because they though that this sacrifice (mainly foreign pilots) would make the peace with the ex-Swissair überpilotinos.
I can understand the concern that these Saab pilots have, because for almost 3 years Crossair pilots have been under constant and real threat of termination, unfortunately it´s their own fault as they sold themselves out in August 2003. They just didn´t realise it back then.
So now they float on sh!t creek without a paddle, waiting for Judgement Day with only two options left: 1) accept that it´s over, or 2) industrial action.
My guess is that they will go for option #1. Why? Because they said so themselves:
WE THE SAAB PILOTS FROM BASLE ARE SWISS
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WE THE SAAB PILOTS FROM BASLE ARE SWISS
Sound like : We the people of los Estados Unido de América.
Nice letter of independence. But whom does it serve? And who's to blame for this situation in the first place? My guess: ALL involved. Starting at the former Swissair managers (a bunch of tarts with overblown cojones) all the way to Crossair pilot representation, then and now (a bunch goody of two-shoes with HUGE chips on their shoulders) IMHO.
As Kapt. Ive said, take it like a man – the reaming only hurts in the beginning – and on that note, let me express my sympathy to all foreigners that were dismissed solely on that criteria. However, and as sad as it is to see how pilots are being treated by their ever so ignorant management, it is too late to defend those that are gone and those that will go.
It is done!!
Try finding a new job, get a type rating on Scarebuses and Vomit Comets, get out of there, and try to get it on! Smell the coffee! Get a hint: They Don’t Want You! – They don’t even like you! Its Swissair ermm… Its Swiss!
WE ARE SWISS!
Jawohl mein Führer!
Nice letter of independence. But whom does it serve? And who's to blame for this situation in the first place? My guess: ALL involved. Starting at the former Swissair managers (a bunch of tarts with overblown cojones) all the way to Crossair pilot representation, then and now (a bunch goody of two-shoes with HUGE chips on their shoulders) IMHO.
As Kapt. Ive said, take it like a man – the reaming only hurts in the beginning – and on that note, let me express my sympathy to all foreigners that were dismissed solely on that criteria. However, and as sad as it is to see how pilots are being treated by their ever so ignorant management, it is too late to defend those that are gone and those that will go.
It is done!!
Try finding a new job, get a type rating on Scarebuses and Vomit Comets, get out of there, and try to get it on! Smell the coffee! Get a hint: They Don’t Want You! – They don’t even like you! Its Swissair ermm… Its Swiss!
WE ARE SWISS!
Jawohl mein Führer!
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These guys need to be careful. Let's face it a rating on a Saab 340/2000 is hardly one thats in huge demand right now. If they feel stressed imagine how they will feel when they have NO job to worry about. My advice, suck it up or get a real type rating before shooting yourself in the head. It does not matter if you are Swiss, a Swiss roll, a Swiss cheese or a Toblerone! Hmmmm! Toblerone (Homer Simpson style)
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Now that my sides have stopped aching and I'm able to stop laughing just long enough to comment here again:
The wheel has turned full circle, I rest my case! Enjoy the good rogering guys (as you rogered your colleagues) and my son and I shall be there to watch you pick up your final payslips at last. BTW, don't let the door smack you on the arse as you go!!!
Does anybody know how to make a middle-finger-up in vBCode?
The wheel has turned full circle, I rest my case! Enjoy the good rogering guys (as you rogered your colleagues) and my son and I shall be there to watch you pick up your final payslips at last. BTW, don't let the door smack you on the arse as you go!!!
Does anybody know how to make a middle-finger-up in vBCode?
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It has been announced that SWISS, formerly SWISSAIR , is to reForm under the new name SWI.
This strategy is to allow three more attempts should this fail.
Pilot applications are invited for the final company "S"
This strategy is to allow three more attempts should this fail.
Pilot applications are invited for the final company "S"
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KAPT IVE-
Swiss pilots also lost their job during the first round of dismissals- and lots of non swiss, such as teabags(reference to toblerones) and others kept their job- maybe you should look at the legal context.
So shut up and die like a man-
Swiss pilots also lost their job during the first round of dismissals- and lots of non swiss, such as teabags(reference to toblerones) and others kept their job- maybe you should look at the legal context.
So shut up and die like a man-
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Let's face it a rating on a Saab 340/2000 is hardly one thats in huge demand right now.
Saab 340 are gone and those guys have other ratings now like BAE145 or EMB145.
The BAE145 will be replaced by EMB170 and they will be flown by...guess who?
Heil
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Sorry, it's a BAe 146, and those have long gone in Crossair, they use the Avro RJs (I admit, the difference is little).
Swiss will never buy EMB175/190 because they don't have the money, LH City line also has Avro's (they even intend to buy more) and because Swissair-guys avoid flying a "regional" aircraft by all means, they wouldn't have those fancy Airbus ratings (with the link to the wide bodies) anymore.
Dani
Swiss will never buy EMB175/190 because they don't have the money, LH City line also has Avro's (they even intend to buy more) and because Swissair-guys avoid flying a "regional" aircraft by all means, they wouldn't have those fancy Airbus ratings (with the link to the wide bodies) anymore.
Dani
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Swiss pilots should bite the bullett and just get on with life. Put your children in a public school, sell the cars, get a loan. Get a 320 or similar rating and follow the contracts. Early acceptance of your poor position is essential. Its a new start, like year 1989 Australian pilots, like Ansett pilots and like PanAm pilots.
Its not easy, but you won't be the first or last to do it.
I speak from experience
Its not easy, but you won't be the first or last to do it.
I speak from experience
I Have Control
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And?
What is so significant about being Swiss? Apart from military service, Zivilschutz and voting rights within Switzerland, you are the same as the rest of us. The airline you work for is no longer Swiss, so some adaptation here is needed. Welcome to the rest of the world.
(Former gastarbeiter in Basel meself, heh heh)
(Former gastarbeiter in Basel meself, heh heh)
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To get back to the topic:
"Without any clear signals from your side, we shall make all efforts to lead Lufthansa to withdraw from the contract by claiming damages between ten and hundreds of millions Swiss Francs from Swiss."
Do these guys really think that this course of action will save their jobs? So ridiculous!
It is a hard time for pilots nowadays, but saying they can't guarantee safety it was THE ONLY THING TO DO for Swiss not to let them fly again.
Guys, when do you start facing the economic truth?
BTW: I am from Basle, but luckily working for a different company...
"Without any clear signals from your side, we shall make all efforts to lead Lufthansa to withdraw from the contract by claiming damages between ten and hundreds of millions Swiss Francs from Swiss."
Do these guys really think that this course of action will save their jobs? So ridiculous!
It is a hard time for pilots nowadays, but saying they can't guarantee safety it was THE ONLY THING TO DO for Swiss not to let them fly again.
Guys, when do you start facing the economic truth?
BTW: I am from Basle, but luckily working for a different company...
@autoflight
Just for the record: Hardly anyone working in this particular industry or country does anything else. Private schools? Well, you know, actually this country does not need too many of those for it's inhabitants because we manage to get proper education from our public schools. So I doubt that anyone concerned here fits that profile you are suggesting, same goes for "cars".
Get a loan for a typerating? As a normal, taxpaying citizen who has probably not paid off the loan required to get the job in the first place? You've got to be kidding me.
Obviously, those guys on the SB20 are on the very short end of the stick and I guess if anything, they don't need patronizing from people who don't know the first thing of what life is here.
Robert,
Always nice to see your comments on the Swiss situation.
Quite a few of those "greedy" people had a clear idea of what they would be doing, quite some are flying for other companies happily. They were offered money as a compensation, so they went for it. At the time, most of the press and other "experts" were predicting the end of Swiss to be imminent. So I wonder who would not have taken the money and ran, particularly if there were other jobs available? I know a good bunch of people who are flying elsewhere happily after accepting the money enough to pay back loans and draw a line. What's wrong with that?
For the record, also quite a number of Swissair pilots and ground staff, including your's truly, were on the road in late 2001. Not one of them has gotten compensations to my knowledge, I certainly did not. Economic realities, fueled by cross brand hatred and self destructive mechanisms that lead to the downfall of the Swiss airline industry in the first place. I don't see much other countries where this would have been possible.
Swiss aviation politics and the way this fight has been going, resulting in the loss of 2 prime brands in aviation history in replacement for one that is now in foreign hands is one of the worst chapters of political and economical history in this country, unfortunately an example on how Swiss politics are at this stage on a larger scale. So should one blame those who get out and look for a new life elsewhere? Not hardly.
Swiss pilots should bite the bullett and just get on with life. Put your children in a public school, sell the cars, get a loan. Get a 320 or similar rating and follow the contracts.
Get a loan for a typerating? As a normal, taxpaying citizen who has probably not paid off the loan required to get the job in the first place? You've got to be kidding me.
Obviously, those guys on the SB20 are on the very short end of the stick and I guess if anything, they don't need patronizing from people who don't know the first thing of what life is here.
Yep, Crossair pilots were stupid enough to slaughter the goose that laid golden eggs in August 2003, when for various reasons (fear, greed, xenophobia) a majority voted to accept the crappy proposal from management.
The junior pilots voted mainly in favour because they wanted the money to make a new start somewhere else.
Senior pilots voted mainly in favour for because they though that this sacrifice (mainly foreign pilots) would make the peace with the ex-Swissair überpilotinos.
The junior pilots voted mainly in favour because they wanted the money to make a new start somewhere else.
Senior pilots voted mainly in favour for because they though that this sacrifice (mainly foreign pilots) would make the peace with the ex-Swissair überpilotinos.
Always nice to see your comments on the Swiss situation.
Quite a few of those "greedy" people had a clear idea of what they would be doing, quite some are flying for other companies happily. They were offered money as a compensation, so they went for it. At the time, most of the press and other "experts" were predicting the end of Swiss to be imminent. So I wonder who would not have taken the money and ran, particularly if there were other jobs available? I know a good bunch of people who are flying elsewhere happily after accepting the money enough to pay back loans and draw a line. What's wrong with that?
For the record, also quite a number of Swissair pilots and ground staff, including your's truly, were on the road in late 2001. Not one of them has gotten compensations to my knowledge, I certainly did not. Economic realities, fueled by cross brand hatred and self destructive mechanisms that lead to the downfall of the Swiss airline industry in the first place. I don't see much other countries where this would have been possible.
Swiss aviation politics and the way this fight has been going, resulting in the loss of 2 prime brands in aviation history in replacement for one that is now in foreign hands is one of the worst chapters of political and economical history in this country, unfortunately an example on how Swiss politics are at this stage on a larger scale. So should one blame those who get out and look for a new life elsewhere? Not hardly.
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AN2
That's some pretty good commenting, actually some of the best on this thread. Nice to see that you dot the t's and cross the I's. And your perfectly correct on the politics and that this could only have happened in Switzerland. None the less, as they say "Hochmut kommt vor dem Fall" and yes, it isn’t the employees salary that will bring down a company. But the mentality of Swissair as a company sure did!! And the huge chip on Crossairs shoulder did work miracles for them in the aftermath of the SR grounding in late 01. None the less, it is the way it is now! All the whining – we were Swissair – we were Crossair, industrial actions, and all the would haves, could haves and should haves are as good as altitude above, runways behind and unusable fuel! Lets face it and call it the way it is!
YOU FECKED IT UP!
Now get on with it!
That's some pretty good commenting, actually some of the best on this thread. Nice to see that you dot the t's and cross the I's. And your perfectly correct on the politics and that this could only have happened in Switzerland. None the less, as they say "Hochmut kommt vor dem Fall" and yes, it isn’t the employees salary that will bring down a company. But the mentality of Swissair as a company sure did!! And the huge chip on Crossairs shoulder did work miracles for them in the aftermath of the SR grounding in late 01. None the less, it is the way it is now! All the whining – we were Swissair – we were Crossair, industrial actions, and all the would haves, could haves and should haves are as good as altitude above, runways behind and unusable fuel! Lets face it and call it the way it is!
YOU FECKED IT UP!
Now get on with it!
Rebel PPRuNer
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If the recent 777/787 order vote in AC is any guide, LH can look forward to lots of "Air Canada/Canadian" type strife in its new acquisition unless the Germans purge one group or the other...
Hi N380UA,
Thanks.
"Only" I am not too sure, but Swiss mentality is certainly a good breeding ground for such stuff. Drives me crazy.
Full agreement here, however, I don't think it should be forgotten. Rather serve as an example on how not to do it and beware of repetitions.
Goes for the remainder of Swiss aviation politics as well. After all, the Swissair/Crossair saga is not the only thing that went seriously amiss recently.
Best regards
AN2 Driver
That's some pretty good commenting, actually some of the best on this thread. Nice to see that you dot the t's and cross the I's.
And your perfectly correct on the politics and that this could only have happened in Switzerland.
All the whining – we were Swissair – we were Crossair, industrial actions, and all the would haves, could haves and should haves are as good as altitude above, runways behind and unusable fuel!
Goes for the remainder of Swiss aviation politics as well. After all, the Swissair/Crossair saga is not the only thing that went seriously amiss recently.
Best regards
AN2 Driver
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
dot the t's and cross the I's.
quote:
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That's some pretty good commenting, actually some of the best on this thread. Nice to see that you dot the t's and cross the I's.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's some pretty good commenting, actually some of the best on this thread. Nice to see that you dot the t's and cross the I's.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks.
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Concerning multi million law suit:
Some of you don't seem to know the extend of what's going wrong in Swiss. There isn't just political mishap or unwise management acts, there are easy to prove breaches of contracts, agreements and letters.
If something like this would happen in a well known part of the world of aviation, like with Ryanair or Qatar, you would see ppprune litterally flooded.
There is a lot unsure about the future of Swiss, but I do not doubt that former Crossair pilots get their rights and/or the money.
Dani
Some of you don't seem to know the extend of what's going wrong in Swiss. There isn't just political mishap or unwise management acts, there are easy to prove breaches of contracts, agreements and letters.
If something like this would happen in a well known part of the world of aviation, like with Ryanair or Qatar, you would see ppprune litterally flooded.
There is a lot unsure about the future of Swiss, but I do not doubt that former Crossair pilots get their rights and/or the money.
Dani
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AN2, Kaptin
Thanks, ya'll got me point and the bit of tong in cheek. Of course I stand corrected we cross the t's and dot the I's.
Dani
If you want more notoriety on this subject i.e. the likes of Ryan, Qatar or even Cathy and Swiss is indeed beyond legality being in breach of contract, than bring it on in clear and certain terms and PROVE it. Otherwise ya'll sound like a bunch of whining idiots that lost the play in 2003 and however sad it is to lose the job, its economic reality.
Thanks, ya'll got me point and the bit of tong in cheek. Of course I stand corrected we cross the t's and dot the I's.
Dani
If you want more notoriety on this subject i.e. the likes of Ryan, Qatar or even Cathy and Swiss is indeed beyond legality being in breach of contract, than bring it on in clear and certain terms and PROVE it. Otherwise ya'll sound like a bunch of whining idiots that lost the play in 2003 and however sad it is to lose the job, its economic reality.
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N380UA, It's not me to prove the facts but the neutral institution of the people (which isn't the government in this case).
Since this war broke out, courts have given the right in every single point to the pilots. Be it during year 2000 Swiss Pilots against Crossair, be it 2003 Swiss Pilots against Swiss.
I have no serious doubt that they will also win the next round.
BTW, I'm not member of this honourable club anymore, so I'm not whining, rather streamlining the facts.
Since this war broke out, courts have given the right in every single point to the pilots. Be it during year 2000 Swiss Pilots against Crossair, be it 2003 Swiss Pilots against Swiss.
I have no serious doubt that they will also win the next round.
BTW, I'm not member of this honourable club anymore, so I'm not whining, rather streamlining the facts.