Ezy Rosters
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: London
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You do 5 horrifically early starts in a row, but it's OK as it's been scientifically proven to not induce fatigue. You then lie on the couch for 2 days while your wife and kids complain about the job you do, and then you get to work another 5 days reporting either mid morning or after lunch, and you get home around midnight, give or take an hour or two. You then enjoy 4 days off. The first usually spent transitioning between the bedroom and the couch. But it's a great improvement on what we had before! 
If only I could remember what life was like before!
Seriously, as a married guy with kids, personally I think the roster a real tragedy, but there are plenty of guys/girls out there who love it. Probably suits the singles better.
If only I could remember what life was like before!Seriously, as a married guy with kids, personally I think the roster a real tragedy, but there are plenty of guys/girls out there who love it. Probably suits the singles better.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Blighty
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Well Mr Ree,
I have to say that I am in agreement with you, except that I am single, well almost! And the rosters dont work for me, I am more tired now that I have ever been in 5 years plus at EZY.
For me the 5 earlies just dont work no matter how well disciplined I am about going to bed early.
I wonder if anyone has thought about the fact that potentialy we could be doing this kind of grafting for the next 30 years of our lives, yeah right!!
I would be most impressed with anyone who has the physical aptitude to do it and they would most certainly be super human beings...
I have to say that I am in agreement with you, except that I am single, well almost! And the rosters dont work for me, I am more tired now that I have ever been in 5 years plus at EZY.
For me the 5 earlies just dont work no matter how well disciplined I am about going to bed early.
I wonder if anyone has thought about the fact that potentialy we could be doing this kind of grafting for the next 30 years of our lives, yeah right!!
I would be most impressed with anyone who has the physical aptitude to do it and they would most certainly be super human beings...
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Well, I know for a fact that after only a couple of months on it it's unsustainable for me. So like a few(?) others it's time to start looking elsewhere, somewhat ironic as it was supposed to be the holy grail of rosters and make ezy the airline of choice. Well, I suppose that's true really; I can choose to stay or choose to go!
Join Date: Jun 2005
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I'm a wanabee but I'd like to ask how long the average shift lasts? in my currrent job I do 5/2/5/2 working a mix of earlies and lates on a lot less lmoney than you guys and I'd like to know just how bad it is or if you're just moaning?
No offence if its really that bad I'm just wondering. I just seem to read a lot of moans on these forums that seem not too bad compared to the job I do and a lot of people I know.
Either way I'd take yours! sorry for posting where I shouldn't.
G
No offence if its really that bad I'm just wondering. I just seem to read a lot of moans on these forums that seem not too bad compared to the job I do and a lot of people I know.
Either way I'd take yours! sorry for posting where I shouldn't.
G
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Well... Pilots LOVE moaning, didn't you know? 
In my place we get even 6 or 7 early calls in a row. It's probably a matter of DNA and habit. To me fatigue comes in periods: I sometimes end a 3-day rotation crawling to the car park, one day off and I'm back rocking again.
Geezajob:
Being an airline pilot DOES get you tired. Of course it depends on your roster, kind of activity etc. But spending 8/more hours in a cockpit (try to notice how small they are), with pressurization and temperature changes, 10% relative humidity really makes the difference versus any "ground" job.
So, I agree there is lots of useless moaning around, but there is also something true about it. I wouldn't change my job with any other, so when I feel knackered I always get to think about worse situations other people are in. But that's a state of mind; your body will stay tired anyway
In my place we get even 6 or 7 early calls in a row. It's probably a matter of DNA and habit. To me fatigue comes in periods: I sometimes end a 3-day rotation crawling to the car park, one day off and I'm back rocking again.
Geezajob:
Being an airline pilot DOES get you tired. Of course it depends on your roster, kind of activity etc. But spending 8/more hours in a cockpit (try to notice how small they are), with pressurization and temperature changes, 10% relative humidity really makes the difference versus any "ground" job.
So, I agree there is lots of useless moaning around, but there is also something true about it. I wouldn't change my job with any other, so when I feel knackered I always get to think about worse situations other people are in. But that's a state of mind; your body will stay tired anyway
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Did someone just remind me that I might have to do this for another thirty years?? Oh god please no ( not for the orange life eating machine anyway!), can we please start posting how great these rosters are. My phsyciatrist has told me that if I lie to myself and think that I am not exhausted, that my wife loves me still, that my kids can remember what I look like then all will be fine!
Anyway off to bed now....its day four!!!( posted at 15.28 local)
LOL JJ737 x x x x
s**t!!! I am out of vodka and sleeping tablets!
Anyway off to bed now....its day four!!!( posted at 15.28 local)
LOL JJ737 x x x x
s**t!!! I am out of vodka and sleeping tablets!
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Thank goodness it was scientifically proved that you're just tired, and not fatigued. 
Geezajob; When on earlies getting up at 4am or earlier 5 days on the go, no matter how noisy the neighbours were during the night, then doing an 11 plus hour day, well, it just does me in. When asked in the crew room on a crews return where they have just been that day most are so knackered that they genuinely struggle to remember!
I can understand your sceptism about the level of tiredness, it's just a combination of things. I guess it's down to things being pretty hectic preparing the flight and throughout the day; time pressures along with ATC slots, working in an office at 8000 ft in glare conditions with continuous white noise in the background and then busy periods of prolonged concentration. x 4 relentless times a day. Some days go smoothly, others have all sorts of problems that may be technical or otherwise. All require total application of mind and body at a very high professional standard. Lest you f**** up!
Having said that I do like my job, and I'm normally openly positive about it. I loved it when I only had to do 3 early departures in a row. I do like it when on lates, but they are again 5 long days. I think it unsafe doing 5 earlies in a row, and that someone in rostering could be doing a lot better how they spread the load for the early starters. But I'm no scientist, and the scientists say that my feelings of fatigue are just illusionary and that really I'm just tired. In the few months I've been on the new 5/2/5/4 I have seen way more boo-boos, both on the handling side and on the radio than all the years on 6/3. Just an observation with no scientific backing, but true and real none-the -less.
At the moment the job has become a means to an end= paypacket verses sleep. I think it will be horrendous in the winter
but that's another bridge to be crossed.
The moans I have is directed toward the people who changed my job from a nice one to a not so nice one. But they made the changes because they didn't like it as it was, so it just goes to show that everyone is different and you can't please 'em all.
Geezajob; When on earlies getting up at 4am or earlier 5 days on the go, no matter how noisy the neighbours were during the night, then doing an 11 plus hour day, well, it just does me in. When asked in the crew room on a crews return where they have just been that day most are so knackered that they genuinely struggle to remember!
I can understand your sceptism about the level of tiredness, it's just a combination of things. I guess it's down to things being pretty hectic preparing the flight and throughout the day; time pressures along with ATC slots, working in an office at 8000 ft in glare conditions with continuous white noise in the background and then busy periods of prolonged concentration. x 4 relentless times a day. Some days go smoothly, others have all sorts of problems that may be technical or otherwise. All require total application of mind and body at a very high professional standard. Lest you f**** up!
Having said that I do like my job, and I'm normally openly positive about it. I loved it when I only had to do 3 early departures in a row. I do like it when on lates, but they are again 5 long days. I think it unsafe doing 5 earlies in a row, and that someone in rostering could be doing a lot better how they spread the load for the early starters. But I'm no scientist, and the scientists say that my feelings of fatigue are just illusionary and that really I'm just tired. In the few months I've been on the new 5/2/5/4 I have seen way more boo-boos, both on the handling side and on the radio than all the years on 6/3. Just an observation with no scientific backing, but true and real none-the -less.
At the moment the job has become a means to an end= paypacket verses sleep. I think it will be horrendous in the winter
but that's another bridge to be crossed.
The moans I have is directed toward the people who changed my job from a nice one to a not so nice one. But they made the changes because they didn't like it as it was, so it just goes to show that everyone is different and you can't please 'em all.
Join Date: Dec 2001
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You do 5 horrifically early starts in a row, but it's OK as it's been scientifically proven to not induce fatigue.
I was staggered when I heard about the alleviation granted to easyJet on this issue.
I think the CAA have proven to themselves that politically early starts do not fatigue pilots. I.e. if easyJet had an accident with a crew on the fourth sector of a fifth early duty as a result of fatigue then the CAA could produce a papertrail at the enquiry proving that they were themselves not to blame.
It all comes down to posh cars and final salary pensions at the Belgrano. The Guys there don't like nasty rosters anymore than the average pilot. However, by establishing high level cosy relationships with the airlines they can ring fence their own positions and shaft everone else.
Call me a cynic but I suspect that is the route cause of the problem.
Toodle Pip, Yarpy
Join Date: Jun 2001
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This alleviation wasn't granted without scientific evidence. I believe QinetiQ were involved in the research. Sleep trials were carried out etc etc.
As has been said above different people react in different way to early starts, getting out your bed at 4am is always going to be tough. Normally by the 2nd early I'm getting into a regular sleep pattern. Day 3 can be hard but day 4 and 5 are no problem for me. For others it appears different.
Under the old system of 6/3 by day 4 I was knackered as I'd transitioned onto lates right when my body was expecting to be in bed.
At the end of my 5 earlies I have two good days off - for others this is obviously different but the 3 days off at the end of the 6/3 system started at 1030pm when you finished on Day 6 and started "3" days later at 0515. Hardly quality time off.
Everybody is different but I find it ok. What is the perfect solution? 9-5?
As has been said above different people react in different way to early starts, getting out your bed at 4am is always going to be tough. Normally by the 2nd early I'm getting into a regular sleep pattern. Day 3 can be hard but day 4 and 5 are no problem for me. For others it appears different.
Under the old system of 6/3 by day 4 I was knackered as I'd transitioned onto lates right when my body was expecting to be in bed.
At the end of my 5 earlies I have two good days off - for others this is obviously different but the 3 days off at the end of the 6/3 system started at 1030pm when you finished on Day 6 and started "3" days later at 0515. Hardly quality time off.
Everybody is different but I find it ok. What is the perfect solution? 9-5?
Join Date: Aug 1999
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Would have thought 5/2/5/4 is reasonable IF it didn't involve 5 consecutive earlies.....
Each to his own, but I couldn't cope with that.
In a previous life, I had a few years at an outfit in the land of wine and cheese in the 80's and had what was probably a perfect and exemplary roster - and if I can do my sums correctly, a 16 day block at EZY provides 6 Rest Days whereas we needed an 18 day block to have 6 rest days.
So, lets' see if I can explain it -
Basically, all the schedules were 'split' into three timeszones -
Earlies - Deps between 06.15 and 07.00, latest finish about 12.45.
Afternoons - Deps between about 12.00 and 13.30, latest finish about 18.45.
Evenings - Deps between about 18.00 and 19.15, shut-down between 23.15 and 23.45
Most Duty Periods were triangular three sectors, some two sectors and some four sectors depending on length - longest sector about 2hr 15 and shortest 45 mins.
Always seven a/c operating operating from base - and referred to as A/C 1, A/C 2, etc...and 365 days operation.
So Roster was based on a simple 4/2/4/2/4/2 etc. Looking thru my old Logs, I can see -
DAY 1 / DAY 2 - A/C 1 - Evenings
DAY 3 / DAY 4 - A/C 1 - Afternoons
DAY 5 / DAY 6 - Rest
DAY 7 / DAY 8 - A/C 1 - Mornings
DAY 9 / DAY 10 - Standby ( which were more or less permanent as the operation was fairly 'lean' and so consisted almost entirely of holiday cover and so the Roster was known well in advance and surprises didn't happen very often )
DAY 11 / DAY 12 - Rest
DAY 13 / DAY 14 - A/C 2 - Evenings
DAY 15 / Day 16 - A/C 2 - Afternoons
DAY 17 / DAY 18 - Rest
DAY 19 / DAY 20 - A/C 2 - Mornings
DAY 21 / DAY 22 - Standby
DAY 23 / DAY 24 - A/C 3 - Evenings
DAY 25 / Day 26 - A/C 3 - Afternoons
etc, etc, etc.......
Benefits -
1. For my assigned days, I could plot and plan my life months in advance once timetables and 'a/craft planning/rotations' had been published.
2. Rest Days were rarely preceded by a late finish and ended with an early start, so they were two 'full' days - unless, of course you were rostered for these on Standby
3. Over a 12 month period, all crew treated absolutely equally and as we all worked the same patterns and hours, so more or less equal flight pay
4. Plenty of time variety in routes/destinations
5. Company didn't spend millions for people and software to devise solutions for complicated rosters up to legal limits
6. Two day non-duty Weekends quite regularly
Negatives -
1. DAY 9 / DAY 10 or DAY 21 / 22 could be mornings, so four mornings in a row was possible, although we took it in turns to standby mornings / afternoons / evenings and so mornings were more or less only every third standby.
2. Delays really did accelerate during the day if the original one was in the morning sectors - no spare a/craft and no spare crews - so the evening rosters could extend well beyond schedule although earliest reporting time after the second night was about 11.00 so it wasn't too bad as it was only one night planned and if rostered evening on second standby day
2. Er.......
Eventually, I moved on becuase I thought bigger a/craft meant more fun and more money. If only I'd known then more about how fatiguing a poor roster can be....
OK, so nowadays it's all so much more about working Crew to maximum hours, but with most companies having fixed A/C Rotation Patterns from fixed bases, and fewer and fewer nightstops, I've never quite understood why there's a rostering problem if, say, there are finite aircraft, finite sectors each day, and finite crew people and hours availabilty at the base.
I suppose it's all about them chasing the almighty dollar......great for the owners but a killer for the Crews.
Each to his own, but I couldn't cope with that.
In a previous life, I had a few years at an outfit in the land of wine and cheese in the 80's and had what was probably a perfect and exemplary roster - and if I can do my sums correctly, a 16 day block at EZY provides 6 Rest Days whereas we needed an 18 day block to have 6 rest days.
So, lets' see if I can explain it -
Basically, all the schedules were 'split' into three timeszones -
Earlies - Deps between 06.15 and 07.00, latest finish about 12.45.
Afternoons - Deps between about 12.00 and 13.30, latest finish about 18.45.
Evenings - Deps between about 18.00 and 19.15, shut-down between 23.15 and 23.45
Most Duty Periods were triangular three sectors, some two sectors and some four sectors depending on length - longest sector about 2hr 15 and shortest 45 mins.
Always seven a/c operating operating from base - and referred to as A/C 1, A/C 2, etc...and 365 days operation.
So Roster was based on a simple 4/2/4/2/4/2 etc. Looking thru my old Logs, I can see -
DAY 1 / DAY 2 - A/C 1 - Evenings
DAY 3 / DAY 4 - A/C 1 - Afternoons
DAY 5 / DAY 6 - Rest
DAY 7 / DAY 8 - A/C 1 - Mornings
DAY 9 / DAY 10 - Standby ( which were more or less permanent as the operation was fairly 'lean' and so consisted almost entirely of holiday cover and so the Roster was known well in advance and surprises didn't happen very often )
DAY 11 / DAY 12 - Rest
DAY 13 / DAY 14 - A/C 2 - Evenings
DAY 15 / Day 16 - A/C 2 - Afternoons
DAY 17 / DAY 18 - Rest
DAY 19 / DAY 20 - A/C 2 - Mornings
DAY 21 / DAY 22 - Standby
DAY 23 / DAY 24 - A/C 3 - Evenings
DAY 25 / Day 26 - A/C 3 - Afternoons
etc, etc, etc.......
Benefits -
1. For my assigned days, I could plot and plan my life months in advance once timetables and 'a/craft planning/rotations' had been published.
2. Rest Days were rarely preceded by a late finish and ended with an early start, so they were two 'full' days - unless, of course you were rostered for these on Standby
3. Over a 12 month period, all crew treated absolutely equally and as we all worked the same patterns and hours, so more or less equal flight pay
4. Plenty of time variety in routes/destinations
5. Company didn't spend millions for people and software to devise solutions for complicated rosters up to legal limits
6. Two day non-duty Weekends quite regularly
Negatives -
1. DAY 9 / DAY 10 or DAY 21 / 22 could be mornings, so four mornings in a row was possible, although we took it in turns to standby mornings / afternoons / evenings and so mornings were more or less only every third standby.
2. Delays really did accelerate during the day if the original one was in the morning sectors - no spare a/craft and no spare crews - so the evening rosters could extend well beyond schedule although earliest reporting time after the second night was about 11.00 so it wasn't too bad as it was only one night planned and if rostered evening on second standby day
2. Er.......
Eventually, I moved on becuase I thought bigger a/craft meant more fun and more money. If only I'd known then more about how fatiguing a poor roster can be....
OK, so nowadays it's all so much more about working Crew to maximum hours, but with most companies having fixed A/C Rotation Patterns from fixed bases, and fewer and fewer nightstops, I've never quite understood why there's a rostering problem if, say, there are finite aircraft, finite sectors each day, and finite crew people and hours availabilty at the base.
I suppose it's all about them chasing the almighty dollar......great for the owners but a killer for the Crews.
Last edited by Hussar 54; 7th Jul 2005 at 15:27.
