How far in advance should you apply for a job?
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How far in advance should you apply for a job?
I'm a military pilot at an airbase in UK that operates C-130s. (Narrows it down a bit.) It seems to me at the moment that anyone who has an ATPL is applying for civvie jobs, those that don't have an ATPL are working towards one. A number of colleagues have been to Cranebank as BA are accepting applications from guys who have anything less than 2 years to go before they can leave the RAF!
My question is - how far in advance is it sensible to send off your application/CV to other airlines? There's no point in my mind asking for a job at Virgin (for example) 2 years before you can start working for them - is there? In a market where timing is everything (I keep on being told) I don't want to blow any chances! Does anyone know? My guess was 12 months to run before you can start work would be an ideal time - but it's been a long time since I last applied for a job.
Thanks in advance for any experiences or suggestions.
My question is - how far in advance is it sensible to send off your application/CV to other airlines? There's no point in my mind asking for a job at Virgin (for example) 2 years before you can start working for them - is there? In a market where timing is everything (I keep on being told) I don't want to blow any chances! Does anyone know? My guess was 12 months to run before you can start work would be an ideal time - but it's been a long time since I last applied for a job.
Thanks in advance for any experiences or suggestions.
Airlines seem to work a bit like RAF recruiting - feast or famine - without a huge amount of planning. I heard nothing for months then 3 interviews and job offers in a week. Many don't seem interested unless you're immediately available. One policeman acquaintance was dropped to bottom of list because, athough he had passed interview, he had to give notice. Other candidates were taken on because they were immediately available.
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And that’s the problem! I don’t want to be without a job for longer than I have to be – but applying too soon will make the application pointless. There are guys who have been swimming in the Virgin pool for 6 months now – so if courses are being allocated that far in advance it would seem sensible to apply to them at least 6 months before you need the job. BA are accepting applications when they know we have 2 years still ‘to do’ – does anyone know the current situation at other airlines? I’m not arrogant or think that I’ll get a job with the majors, or easily with anyone. Any information I can get will be appreciated.
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Based on my recent experience I would suggest getting all your ducks in a row (Class 1, AT/CPL IR, CV etc) about 14 months before your last day of service. Anything more than that and you are throwing money away as you may have to renew some parts at a critical stage. It is pointless writing to companies without these qualifications. However, once you are qualified then they will be interested if they are recruiting. Worry about how/when you finish in the mil if they offer you a job!
Very few companies offer a flash to bang time of less than 3 months. The average at the moment (for me) from application to start date is around 9 months. This caters for a couple of months sorting out assessment day(s), results, checking of references and course availability dates. The longest so far is 14 months from application til now, and at least another 7 months wait before starting! The shortest was about 6 weeks from invite to interview to start date, however my CV had been in 5 months prior.
Good luck.
Very few companies offer a flash to bang time of less than 3 months. The average at the moment (for me) from application to start date is around 9 months. This caters for a couple of months sorting out assessment day(s), results, checking of references and course availability dates. The longest so far is 14 months from application til now, and at least another 7 months wait before starting! The shortest was about 6 weeks from invite to interview to start date, however my CV had been in 5 months prior.
Good luck.
Didn't apply to me since I was a lowly, bottom-of-food-chain engineer in the RAF but have BA rejuvenated their Managed Path programme as they promised to do? Idea was to ease the transition from RAF to BA for QSPs.
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If there ever was a way to figure out timing in this business, you would be so far ahead of the game, as to make all the rest of us look like fools for even trying.
There is no hard and fast way to know when..........Just do it (apologzies to Nike).
If your one of the lucky ones, you have a job when you get your next one. Do not be without one when the next one becomes available.
Most companies know that you have to give notice to present employer, since they also lose employees from time to time.
If the job requires short notice, then you have time to decide which is the better option ( lucky you ).
If you have the qualifications for the new job, my opinion is not to wait until your ready, as they may not be. Keep sending in the apps until they tell you not to.
Good luck in your searchs.
There is no hard and fast way to know when..........Just do it (apologzies to Nike).
If your one of the lucky ones, you have a job when you get your next one. Do not be without one when the next one becomes available.
Most companies know that you have to give notice to present employer, since they also lose employees from time to time.
If the job requires short notice, then you have time to decide which is the better option ( lucky you ).
If you have the qualifications for the new job, my opinion is not to wait until your ready, as they may not be. Keep sending in the apps until they tell you not to.
Good luck in your searchs.
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ixion17
Thanks for that. No easy answer then, it depends on the company and their circumstances when you apply. I now have ATPL and Class 1 squared away and about 2 years to go. Worrying about when to leave the RAF is easy - I don't go early or I lose my pension!
HP,
BA have most definitely started managed path scheme again. There are a number of guys looking 'quietly', some of whom I hear have been to Cranebank, of the ones who have declared their hand I know of more than 15 who have attended since January. I only know of 2 who have been but weren't what BA were looking for. These figures are just for my base.
As far as looking for jobs goes, BA got my application and has invited me to attend their assessment day (3 weeks from application to assessment). As for whether or not BA is the company to work for - I'll feel lucky if I'm able to make a choice! It just seemed too early to apply for other companies when I can't leave the RAF early without jeopardising my pension - but I don't want to make a mistake and leave things too late (or put all my eggs in one basket).
Thanks for that. No easy answer then, it depends on the company and their circumstances when you apply. I now have ATPL and Class 1 squared away and about 2 years to go. Worrying about when to leave the RAF is easy - I don't go early or I lose my pension!
HP,
BA have most definitely started managed path scheme again. There are a number of guys looking 'quietly', some of whom I hear have been to Cranebank, of the ones who have declared their hand I know of more than 15 who have attended since January. I only know of 2 who have been but weren't what BA were looking for. These figures are just for my base.
As far as looking for jobs goes, BA got my application and has invited me to attend their assessment day (3 weeks from application to assessment). As for whether or not BA is the company to work for - I'll feel lucky if I'm able to make a choice! It just seemed too early to apply for other companies when I can't leave the RAF early without jeopardising my pension - but I don't want to make a mistake and leave things too late (or put all my eggs in one basket).
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demobcurious Just be careful that you don't leave it until close to Oct 2006. BA aren't expecting much movement, hence recruitment once the retirement age changes. You could find it very difficult finding any flying job as it all backs up down the chain. It may be worth sacrificing part of your RAF pension just to be in a position to get a job.
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I left Lyneham some years ago, on much the same path as you. In my case, it was on PVR, and I was given an exit date one year from application. At that point, I had no civilian qualifications whatsoever...
As soon as I started the process of acquiring the quals, I started writing to the airlines. I wrote to relatively few, as I was fairly sure what lifestyle I was after and who could offer it (recruiting was fairly buoyant at the time, as it is now). All the airlines I wrote to accepted me for interview, irrespective of the fact that I hadn't yet completed my ATPL. Most were totally understanding of the relevance of the exit date from the service, though - unlike you - I was in a position to accept an earlier exit should an offer come along and my qualifications were complete. They also were all perfectly happy with the fact that I was talking to other airlines.
The result was that I had sufficient job offers before leaving to be confident that I would be OK, and in fact I started my job with Virgin 9 months after PVR, and 3 months before my official exit date.
The kind of companies you are likely to be talking to are generally aware of the processes you have to go through as a retiring QSP (though it will do no harm to remind them if necessary!). The likes of BA will be able to forecast their manning requirements reasonably far ahead, and so the effects of the 2006 anti-ageist legislation will have been assessed before you receive any job offer.
To summarise: timing in today's employment market for someone with your background isn't that critical. Most employers will understand the constraints you are working under. However, market conditions change rapidly and without notice, so all I've said could be rubbish by this time next week!
While things are good, and they are, you have the chance to think carefully about the lifestyle you want and who offers it. Assuming the market stays healthy, don't take the first thing that comes up - unless it's your target job. Have some contingency plans in case your preferred employer doesn't want you, for whatever reason - but always remember that you can change jobs at a later date, when things improve, if you weren't able to get what you want at your first shot. People will shout 'seniority' at me for that remark, but seniority is not everything in all circumstances. For example, if your long-term target was a longhaul command yet the only company you could join was BA, you'd have to accept that a longhaul command is probably out of reach (I'm assuming you're 38 or older). But after a couple of years in BA the market could have changed, and with 2000 hours on B747 or B777 (say), you'd be highly employable elsewhere, where time to command might be considerably less.
If that wasn't explained as concisely as it might have been, I apologise!
As soon as I started the process of acquiring the quals, I started writing to the airlines. I wrote to relatively few, as I was fairly sure what lifestyle I was after and who could offer it (recruiting was fairly buoyant at the time, as it is now). All the airlines I wrote to accepted me for interview, irrespective of the fact that I hadn't yet completed my ATPL. Most were totally understanding of the relevance of the exit date from the service, though - unlike you - I was in a position to accept an earlier exit should an offer come along and my qualifications were complete. They also were all perfectly happy with the fact that I was talking to other airlines.
The result was that I had sufficient job offers before leaving to be confident that I would be OK, and in fact I started my job with Virgin 9 months after PVR, and 3 months before my official exit date.
The kind of companies you are likely to be talking to are generally aware of the processes you have to go through as a retiring QSP (though it will do no harm to remind them if necessary!). The likes of BA will be able to forecast their manning requirements reasonably far ahead, and so the effects of the 2006 anti-ageist legislation will have been assessed before you receive any job offer.
To summarise: timing in today's employment market for someone with your background isn't that critical. Most employers will understand the constraints you are working under. However, market conditions change rapidly and without notice, so all I've said could be rubbish by this time next week!
While things are good, and they are, you have the chance to think carefully about the lifestyle you want and who offers it. Assuming the market stays healthy, don't take the first thing that comes up - unless it's your target job. Have some contingency plans in case your preferred employer doesn't want you, for whatever reason - but always remember that you can change jobs at a later date, when things improve, if you weren't able to get what you want at your first shot. People will shout 'seniority' at me for that remark, but seniority is not everything in all circumstances. For example, if your long-term target was a longhaul command yet the only company you could join was BA, you'd have to accept that a longhaul command is probably out of reach (I'm assuming you're 38 or older). But after a couple of years in BA the market could have changed, and with 2000 hours on B747 or B777 (say), you'd be highly employable elsewhere, where time to command might be considerably less.
If that wasn't explained as concisely as it might have been, I apologise!
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If you are thinking of applying to the more established airlines, then it is a good idea to have some "history" of interest. I would suggest that you make an initial application, and then provide regular, say six monthly, updates. When you are fully qualified and are hopefully invited to an interview, then your file should be of a reasonable size and interest to provide for a pleasant discussion. Airlines are well used to standard C.V.'s which are pushed out to test the waters, hence the suggestion for some long term planning and enthusiasm for whichever airline(s) that you desire. Good luck.
One of the 15
demobcurious,
As one of the 15 who have attended BA selection from 'an airbase in UK that operates C-130s', I feel I ought to comment.
Decided to go in Nov then found that needed ATPL to apply and BA had not yet opened managed path. Applied to BA on closing date for BA Managed Path, at that time 31 Jan and ATPL in bag but with CAA for shuffling. Applied to Cathay and Virgin at the same time.
BA phoned 2 weeks later, interview early April, sim assess 2 weeks later, start date in Aug on 777.
Cathay, acknowledged DEFO application form, quoted probable interview date, towards end of 2005 for employment towards end of 2006. Was sent 6 monthly update forms.
Virgin, acknowledged application. Janine explained not interviewing at present due to recruitment of A330/340 pilots for the new 340s and retrainning the Classic crews, thus pool was 'frozen' and I know people who have been in this pool over 12 months. Janine said that they wouldn't be interviewing again until later in the year.
Conclusions.
Was lucky with the BA timing, time lines for the other majors can be long at times. I would start early and make sure you prepare for BA, so that you don't join the '2 who have been but weren't what BA were looking for'.
As one of the 15 who have attended BA selection from 'an airbase in UK that operates C-130s', I feel I ought to comment.
Decided to go in Nov then found that needed ATPL to apply and BA had not yet opened managed path. Applied to BA on closing date for BA Managed Path, at that time 31 Jan and ATPL in bag but with CAA for shuffling. Applied to Cathay and Virgin at the same time.
BA phoned 2 weeks later, interview early April, sim assess 2 weeks later, start date in Aug on 777.
Cathay, acknowledged DEFO application form, quoted probable interview date, towards end of 2005 for employment towards end of 2006. Was sent 6 monthly update forms.
Virgin, acknowledged application. Janine explained not interviewing at present due to recruitment of A330/340 pilots for the new 340s and retrainning the Classic crews, thus pool was 'frozen' and I know people who have been in this pool over 12 months. Janine said that they wouldn't be interviewing again until later in the year.
Conclusions.
Was lucky with the BA timing, time lines for the other majors can be long at times. I would start early and make sure you prepare for BA, so that you don't join the '2 who have been but weren't what BA were looking for'.
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Thanks for the replies. Scroggs, once again a post well worth the read. Mr R there's nowhere else to get the timescales you gave. There are lots of factors to consider when choosing when and where to send CVs. I know where I want to work - it's getting it all right so I've the best chance of getting there that's the hard bit. Your info is invaluable.
