48-hour maximum working week
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48-hour maximum working week
So the EU want to get rid of the opt out clause that the UK is so very fond of.
A maximum working week of 48 hours.
Am I right in saying that that is total time spent working, not just flying time?
A maximum working week of 48 hours.
Am I right in saying that that is total time spent working, not just flying time?
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A maximum working week of 48 hours.
k most of the ground handling companies!Most weeks in the summer, we worked close on 30 hours at the weekend, as well as the rest of the roster in the week. It was always "voluntary", but we all knew exactly which side our bread was buttered if we didn't do it!
If it's properly implemented, maybe at last, there will be some quality staff and conditions in ground handling.
Eight Gun Fighter
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We've had that for years here but there is an averaging over time get out clause for overtime. I think it's three months. So the limit works out to not more than 576 hours in 12 weeks.
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The EU already approved a 48 hour max working week but the UK (along with er, Malta I think) opted out of the restriction so that, if they wanted to, UK employees could work longer hours. Because many employers coerced their employees to work longer than 48 hours the UK is now considering going back to the main 48 hour week restriction, no overtime allowed. Much of the airline industry is exempt from these restrictions anyway, with pilots able to be rostered 55 hours and work 60 hours in a week. However, the new proposals may also say that time spent "on call" is not included in the 48 hours.
de minimus non curat lex
WTD
This aspect of the WTD will not impact upon those covered by CAP 371. The 48 hours is averaged over 12 weeks.
The CAP allows for up to 2000 hours pa which divided by 48 weeks [52-4 weeks hols] gives an average of 41.67 hours.
The CAP allows for up to 2000 hours pa which divided by 48 weeks [52-4 weeks hols] gives an average of 41.67 hours.
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My last two employments (separate employers), which were/are in the airline industry, were initially administered by H.R. Departments situated in the U.K.
On both occasions, when completing the initial employment documentation, I was presented with the opt out document and told that if I wanted to work there then I MUST sign it!
Voluntary I don't think so
I for one am glad that someone is trying to stop BLATANT EXPLOITATION
Rant over!
On both occasions, when completing the initial employment documentation, I was presented with the opt out document and told that if I wanted to work there then I MUST sign it!
Voluntary I don't think so I for one am glad that someone is trying to stop BLATANT EXPLOITATION
Rant over!
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parkfell
Unfortunately I don't believe that this is the case. The vote in the European Parliament yesterday does not allow for anymore 'averaging' of hours over a period of time which (I think) was part of the original opt-out clause.
Instead, what is being said (allegedly due to health and safety reasons which is how the vote went through) is that a working week will consist of 48 hours maximum with at least 11 hours rest between shifts. From what I understand, this also includes standby or on-call time as well (within the 48 hours).
It will probably never happen as the Council of Europe is likely to vote it out, but I can see a lot of businesses (not just aviation related ones) being concerned this morning.
airmail
Unfortunately I don't believe that this is the case. The vote in the European Parliament yesterday does not allow for anymore 'averaging' of hours over a period of time which (I think) was part of the original opt-out clause.
Instead, what is being said (allegedly due to health and safety reasons which is how the vote went through) is that a working week will consist of 48 hours maximum with at least 11 hours rest between shifts. From what I understand, this also includes standby or on-call time as well (within the 48 hours).
It will probably never happen as the Council of Europe is likely to vote it out, but I can see a lot of businesses (not just aviation related ones) being concerned this morning.
airmail
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The Working Time directive calls for an average of working 48 hours over 17 consecutive weeks. Currently anyone in the EU can opt out voluntarily but this has been applied mostly in the UK and former East European countries such as Poland.
The 2 changes voted for by the MEP's are to remove the 'Opt out' and count time on call out (standby) as working time. However, this is unlikely to be passed into law as it is well known that the EU countries that strictly follow this law are also the ones least attractive for foreign investors and have high unemployment such as France and Germany.
The biggest impact to Flight and Ground Crew I see is the limit of 8 hours night duty per shift. Your friendly Ops and Crewing staff will no longer be able to do their much loved 2 day, 2 night 4 off roster pattern.
The 2 changes voted for by the MEP's are to remove the 'Opt out' and count time on call out (standby) as working time. However, this is unlikely to be passed into law as it is well known that the EU countries that strictly follow this law are also the ones least attractive for foreign investors and have high unemployment such as France and Germany.
The biggest impact to Flight and Ground Crew I see is the limit of 8 hours night duty per shift. Your friendly Ops and Crewing staff will no longer be able to do their much loved 2 day, 2 night 4 off roster pattern.
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Pub User
May I suggest that if you go out to BUE and back it will normally be done in less than 4 days, leaving you with about half a dozen hours to play with for the rest of the week?
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Dear mogggiee,
May I suggest to you that after you return from a 4-day-tour to EZE, you are probably not fit to fly the next day, not even speaking of (legal) requirements for rest?
Regards,
P77
edited for EZE
May I suggest to you that after you return from a 4-day-tour to EZE, you are probably not fit to fly the next day, not even speaking of (legal) requirements for rest?
Regards,
P77
edited for EZE
Last edited by Pegasus77; 12th May 2005 at 15:31.
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Nice in Europe!
NOT talking specifically about aviation - The standard working week in the Middle-East is 48 hours - sometimes 45!
And back in UK a few years ago, I was with a manufacturing company whose staff were cut to "no overtime" ("recession") and many were struggling to pay their mortgage. I was a "company hero" when I designed a bit of kit that got a bit BT order and sudenly it was "no restriction on overtime"!
Compulsory overtime is a different story. I've probably put in some 60 or 70 hours this week (no overtime pay!) at my own choice, to try to get some things off the ground, but I didn't have to
Specifically Aviation - I'd certainly not want to think that the crew of the aircraft that I was in as a pax (sleeping, to catch up on my lost rest!) were tired from excessive hours. If I'm over-tired, the worst thing that can happen is that I run off the road driving back from a customer site (okay, maybe I drive off through on-coming traffic and take out a couple of others - not good) but a tired flight crew is something we don't want to even think about.
When mass-safety is concerned, you should be able to dictate when you are tired and when you are not!
(my riyal's worth!)
And back in UK a few years ago, I was with a manufacturing company whose staff were cut to "no overtime" ("recession") and many were struggling to pay their mortgage. I was a "company hero" when I designed a bit of kit that got a bit BT order and sudenly it was "no restriction on overtime"!
Compulsory overtime is a different story. I've probably put in some 60 or 70 hours this week (no overtime pay!) at my own choice, to try to get some things off the ground, but I didn't have to
Specifically Aviation - I'd certainly not want to think that the crew of the aircraft that I was in as a pax (sleeping, to catch up on my lost rest!) were tired from excessive hours. If I'm over-tired, the worst thing that can happen is that I run off the road driving back from a customer site (okay, maybe I drive off through on-coming traffic and take out a couple of others - not good) but a tired flight crew is something we don't want to even think about.
When mass-safety is concerned, you should be able to dictate when you are tired and when you are not!
(my riyal's worth!)
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The new proposal is for 48 hrs average over 52 weeks. With no op out.
It has gone through the European Parliament but still needs to go through the Council.
And I don't see any of the long haul, or short haul, operations on the continent being affected by this. So why should all the fuss?
Just more phobia and ignorance perhaps?
It has gone through the European Parliament but still needs to go through the Council.
And I don't see any of the long haul, or short haul, operations on the continent being affected by this. So why should all the fuss?
Just more phobia and ignorance perhaps?
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Certain workers are not subject the 48 hours regulations, because they are governed by sector-specific provisions.
Air transport, is covered by the Aviation Directive (2000/79/EC). This Directive affects all mobile workers in commercial air transport (both flight crew and cabin crew), but not workers employed in General Aviation.
It appears that any amendment to the rule will effect only those workers in GA
References DTI and Directive 2000/79/EC
Air transport, is covered by the Aviation Directive (2000/79/EC). This Directive affects all mobile workers in commercial air transport (both flight crew and cabin crew), but not workers employed in General Aviation.
It appears that any amendment to the rule will effect only those workers in GA
References DTI and Directive 2000/79/EC
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Donkey's rights v's Pilots rights
I'm sure most of you must have read that Donkeys get a 1 hour lunch break.
From The Times 12/05/05 :-
Donkeys working on Blackpool pleasure beach were also granted a 48 hour week yesterday and council inspectors will check that they are getting their full lunch break.
Councillors discussed what a donkey should get for lunch and decided that it should be about an hour. The sands will be patrolled to ensure no donkeys are missing out on their employment rights.
The 200 plus animals carry children for rides along the beaches throughout the summer. Council rules state donkeys must only work from 10am - 7 pm, have an hour off for lunch and must have every Friday off.
Officials said they wanted to ensure their donkeys were happy and healthy as they have been part of the resort's history since Victorian times.
The donkey's employment rights will be protected by the council's donkey inspectors to ensure they are not being overworked by their owners. They will also get their annual "donkey MoT" by vets to ensure they are healthy enough to work.
They will line up on the sand on Friday, their day of rest, while officials, accompanied by vets, check their hooves, ears, teeth and coats. Any owner whose animal is not up to scratch will not get an operators licence.
The animals, which were first brought to Britain to toil down mines, take tens of thousands of children on £2 rides each season.
A council spokesman said: "We do spot checks throughout the summer season to make sure they are having a break".
"Some people might think it is quite a hard day on the beach with no break on a busy day. It is an important part of our tourism business.
"We want the donkeys to be happy and healthy. The donkeys' Friday off is a by- law that has been in place for, well, donkeys years".
Discuss, if you see ANY similarities.
From The Times 12/05/05 :-
Donkeys working on Blackpool pleasure beach were also granted a 48 hour week yesterday and council inspectors will check that they are getting their full lunch break.
Councillors discussed what a donkey should get for lunch and decided that it should be about an hour. The sands will be patrolled to ensure no donkeys are missing out on their employment rights.
The 200 plus animals carry children for rides along the beaches throughout the summer. Council rules state donkeys must only work from 10am - 7 pm, have an hour off for lunch and must have every Friday off.
Officials said they wanted to ensure their donkeys were happy and healthy as they have been part of the resort's history since Victorian times.
The donkey's employment rights will be protected by the council's donkey inspectors to ensure they are not being overworked by their owners. They will also get their annual "donkey MoT" by vets to ensure they are healthy enough to work.
They will line up on the sand on Friday, their day of rest, while officials, accompanied by vets, check their hooves, ears, teeth and coats. Any owner whose animal is not up to scratch will not get an operators licence.
The animals, which were first brought to Britain to toil down mines, take tens of thousands of children on £2 rides each season.
A council spokesman said: "We do spot checks throughout the summer season to make sure they are having a break".
"Some people might think it is quite a hard day on the beach with no break on a busy day. It is an important part of our tourism business.
"We want the donkeys to be happy and healthy. The donkeys' Friday off is a by- law that has been in place for, well, donkeys years".
Discuss, if you see ANY similarities.