Will BA meet its recruitment target?
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Will BA meet its recruitment target?
Interesting statistic fro the IPA Skypointer magazine.
BA require 223 pilots for the fiscal year March 2005 to March 2006.
At present the have 'secured' 80.
1. Why do BA have a problem recruting pilots?
2. What do they need to do to attract more pilots?
BA require 223 pilots for the fiscal year March 2005 to March 2006.
At present the have 'secured' 80.
1. Why do BA have a problem recruting pilots?
2. What do they need to do to attract more pilots?
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BA have a problem recruiting pilots because their own standards are quite strange, and the 'vetting' procedure so stringent. Not saying this because I'm bitter about not being taken on (I've got a job with a company I think is far better for me now). When I went for the day-from-hell, there were 12 applicants there, with 90% being totally suitable for the job. Most had type-ratings on BA aircraft, and those that didn't had enough experience to be able to show they were capable of handling a TR course. I think only 2 got called back.
The interview is not about you as a person at all, it's all about giving them the kind of BS they want to hear. What kind of examples could I give of leadership in the airline environment?? Well I'm 22, have been flying commercially for 20months - what kind of leadership do you think I have?!?!
Lots of my friends and colleagues have all been, and most got rejected. They are all extremely competent, and have great attitudes and personalities. Perhaps just not enough of the 'management' personality that BA want, and perhaps have too much 'I love flying'...
If BA can't recruit enough crew, it's their own fault. They've had hundreds of applicants, and I'd guess maybe 75% were totally suitable.
The interview is not about you as a person at all, it's all about giving them the kind of BS they want to hear. What kind of examples could I give of leadership in the airline environment?? Well I'm 22, have been flying commercially for 20months - what kind of leadership do you think I have?!?!
Lots of my friends and colleagues have all been, and most got rejected. They are all extremely competent, and have great attitudes and personalities. Perhaps just not enough of the 'management' personality that BA want, and perhaps have too much 'I love flying'...
If BA can't recruit enough crew, it's their own fault. They've had hundreds of applicants, and I'd guess maybe 75% were totally suitable.
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With regards to future sponsorship: pilots within BA say no, however I think that will ultimately be incorrect as:
1) Although there are no shortage of 200 hr pilots, there is a shortage of qualified pilots, and of people who are capable of stepping onto a jet at 200 hrs and making it without first having hour-built (so they say...)
2) With having to pay for a full integrated themselves, the pool of people willing to do so is diminishing, leaving modular graudates and - perhaps - people less suitable whom integrated schools take on as the pool of keener and more skilled people decrease. BA would need to make a choice whether or not to take modulars at 200 hrs, which I don't think they are prepared to take (snootiness or experience-wise, take your pick). CTC being the exception that proves the rule.
3) The pool of RAF people is far, far smaller than it has ever been in the past, and the competition pays far more than it ever did.
I think there are a lot of keen, capable people who cannot afford to pay for training themselves. The RAF recruits some of those, and others are lost to non-flying jobs at the moment. Some may get in through raising the funding but the risks are too large to bother doing that for many. On the one hand one might say that it is an insufficient commitment to a flying career, so stuff those who are lost - others might say that a certain level-headedness to make that assessment would mean that group make better decisions. A mixture of those would of course be best.
Though the company is not a charity, investment for its own future growth will - in my opinion - be required in the future, if not now, when the Multi-Crew pilot's licence is up and running.
It does strike me as slightly patronising that they require people who will think outside the box, with qualities of being better managers, then patronise them with some of the working practices and pronouncements from management that are experienced. Maybe however they are seeking people with a wider mind who can see why the company operates as it does, and therefore more likely to put up with BS that comes from operating in the bombsite that is Heathrow...
Caveat - I don't of course have any idea what they want not working there.
1) Although there are no shortage of 200 hr pilots, there is a shortage of qualified pilots, and of people who are capable of stepping onto a jet at 200 hrs and making it without first having hour-built (so they say...)
2) With having to pay for a full integrated themselves, the pool of people willing to do so is diminishing, leaving modular graudates and - perhaps - people less suitable whom integrated schools take on as the pool of keener and more skilled people decrease. BA would need to make a choice whether or not to take modulars at 200 hrs, which I don't think they are prepared to take (snootiness or experience-wise, take your pick). CTC being the exception that proves the rule.
3) The pool of RAF people is far, far smaller than it has ever been in the past, and the competition pays far more than it ever did.
I think there are a lot of keen, capable people who cannot afford to pay for training themselves. The RAF recruits some of those, and others are lost to non-flying jobs at the moment. Some may get in through raising the funding but the risks are too large to bother doing that for many. On the one hand one might say that it is an insufficient commitment to a flying career, so stuff those who are lost - others might say that a certain level-headedness to make that assessment would mean that group make better decisions. A mixture of those would of course be best.
Though the company is not a charity, investment for its own future growth will - in my opinion - be required in the future, if not now, when the Multi-Crew pilot's licence is up and running.
It does strike me as slightly patronising that they require people who will think outside the box, with qualities of being better managers, then patronise them with some of the working practices and pronouncements from management that are experienced. Maybe however they are seeking people with a wider mind who can see why the company operates as it does, and therefore more likely to put up with BS that comes from operating in the bombsite that is Heathrow...
Caveat - I don't of course have any idea what they want not working there.
Last edited by Re-Heat; 28th Apr 2005 at 14:32.
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I agree with some things that have been said, however, i would have jumped at the chance to work for them and was so disappointed when falling at the final hurdle... However, i do agree with the arguments that BA are letting good people slip through their fingers... If i had been offered employment, that would have been me for life as i have always wanted to progress onto long-haul... However, another year passes and if another company comes along, well who can turn it down...
Its all very well having to jump through the hoops, but the trouble seems to be that the decisions are black and white, and if any part of your 2 day assesment is covered by a grey area, then thats you for another 12 months...
Thats not to say however that i ma not counting down the days for my next application...
Its all very well having to jump through the hoops, but the trouble seems to be that the decisions are black and white, and if any part of your 2 day assesment is covered by a grey area, then thats you for another 12 months...
Thats not to say however that i ma not counting down the days for my next application...
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Sadly management in many different commercial environments get suckered into thinking the 'bells & whistles' recruitment procedure sold to them by HR consultants is shyte-hot, and they can go away and not have to think about it themselves.. it's taken care of.
Regrettably the highly qualified HR consultant with a string of degrees after their name, which is not a bad thing, only see the value in their commssion.
So you end up with some crap recruitment procedures which are irrelevant to the job..
Not being party to BA's recruitment team I can't put the boot in too hard but didn't they have trouble several years ago with an agency that had them selecting pilots based upon a New York department store manager?
I am told they have a scanning programm that looks at the essay one needs to submit via the web only to pick out and score 'buzz words', grammer & spelling. Never mind what it is you actually have to say, that's irrelevant.
Sounds like the BS factor in the pilot recruitment process is alive and kicking and we are still not looking for aviators to join BA..?
Regrettably the highly qualified HR consultant with a string of degrees after their name, which is not a bad thing, only see the value in their commssion.
So you end up with some crap recruitment procedures which are irrelevant to the job..
Not being party to BA's recruitment team I can't put the boot in too hard but didn't they have trouble several years ago with an agency that had them selecting pilots based upon a New York department store manager?
I am told they have a scanning programm that looks at the essay one needs to submit via the web only to pick out and score 'buzz words', grammer & spelling. Never mind what it is you actually have to say, that's irrelevant.
Sounds like the BS factor in the pilot recruitment process is alive and kicking and we are still not looking for aviators to join BA..?
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I have to agree that some parts of BA's assessment process, especially the micropat tests for direct entry pilots seem a bit strange. However I have been through the system twice now, one many years ago for the Cadet scheme and one more recently for direct entry.
I think the key is the interview, and with it preparation. If you go into it without any thought (as I did first time) you have no chance. They are looking for people who not only want to be pilots, but who only want to work for BA, whether you want to or not, you have to convince them of this. And this takes preparation. To give you some idea, I put in probably 100 hours of work or more for my latest attempt at BA - the result, success.
So if you want it enough, go for it, but don't be half hearted or you may as well not turn up.
Good luck to you all, I hope it is worth the effort.
I think the key is the interview, and with it preparation. If you go into it without any thought (as I did first time) you have no chance. They are looking for people who not only want to be pilots, but who only want to work for BA, whether you want to or not, you have to convince them of this. And this takes preparation. To give you some idea, I put in probably 100 hours of work or more for my latest attempt at BA - the result, success.
So if you want it enough, go for it, but don't be half hearted or you may as well not turn up.
Good luck to you all, I hope it is worth the effort.
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Um, excuse me, I didn't go into it half-hearted. I too spent many hours getting ready for it. I had a list of maybe 100questions that they like to ask, and sat down trying to come up with a suitable answer. Don't forget pretty much every question requires an example of a situation when you've- made a good decidion;bad decision; led a team;had to make a hard decision; etc etc etc.
For someone like myself with what could be classed as little experience in the aviation world (1200hrs) I don't have many examples to draw upon - basically because I've not encountered any such situations. I've not had any emergencies (luckily!), and being a FO I don't get to make decisions - that's down to the Captain.
However, I think the fact that I started my commercial training at 18, and getting my first job at 20, with a first time pass in IR, TR, Line Check's, LPC's, OPC's blah blah blah would be proof enough that I'm dedicated, ambitious etc etc etc.
My point is that they're no doubt turning pilots away because in the interview they couldn't come up with a decent answer about an emergency they've had to deal with. Having had another interview recently, from which I've gained a job, the whole interview was about ME. What kind of person I am, my strengths, weaknesses, hobbies, how my training went. A very nice, relaxed interview - and I'd say giving my new employers a much better idea about what kind of person they're employing.
And yes, the Micropat testing - utter bollox. What that showed them I have no idea.
For someone like myself with what could be classed as little experience in the aviation world (1200hrs) I don't have many examples to draw upon - basically because I've not encountered any such situations. I've not had any emergencies (luckily!), and being a FO I don't get to make decisions - that's down to the Captain.
However, I think the fact that I started my commercial training at 18, and getting my first job at 20, with a first time pass in IR, TR, Line Check's, LPC's, OPC's blah blah blah would be proof enough that I'm dedicated, ambitious etc etc etc.
My point is that they're no doubt turning pilots away because in the interview they couldn't come up with a decent answer about an emergency they've had to deal with. Having had another interview recently, from which I've gained a job, the whole interview was about ME. What kind of person I am, my strengths, weaknesses, hobbies, how my training went. A very nice, relaxed interview - and I'd say giving my new employers a much better idea about what kind of person they're employing.
And yes, the Micropat testing - utter bollox. What that showed them I have no idea.
The Greaser
I have to agree with you. The interview was the one item you could do a lot of preparation for. Let's face it, there were/are some good clues in a certain thread on this very website!
I too put in the hours for the interview. I was anxious when it actually came about but I very quickly settled in to enjoying it. I mean that - I thoroughly enjoyed it and could have continued with my interviewing team far longer if they had wanted to. The aptitudes etc were a grind but in the end it payed off - I have also been successful!
I have to agree with you. The interview was the one item you could do a lot of preparation for. Let's face it, there were/are some good clues in a certain thread on this very website!
I too put in the hours for the interview. I was anxious when it actually came about but I very quickly settled in to enjoying it. I mean that - I thoroughly enjoyed it and could have continued with my interviewing team far longer if they had wanted to. The aptitudes etc were a grind but in the end it payed off - I have also been successful!
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er82
Perhaps this time not having enough experiences to draw upon was your downfall - this is not your fault, just an unfortunate side effect of being young. If you want BA, keep trying, you will get it.
Best of luck.
Perhaps this time not having enough experiences to draw upon was your downfall - this is not your fault, just an unfortunate side effect of being young. If you want BA, keep trying, you will get it.
Best of luck.
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Very patronising....!!!
No thanks, I've managed to get a job where I'll be much better suited. I'll be a name, not a number!
(Oh, an please don't now start saying maybe it's this attitude that BA saw and hence the reason I didn't get hired.... When I went for my interview I honestly though BA was the way to go and was all I wanted. I just now realise this not to be the case)
No thanks, I've managed to get a job where I'll be much better suited. I'll be a name, not a number!
(Oh, an please don't now start saying maybe it's this attitude that BA saw and hence the reason I didn't get hired.... When I went for my interview I honestly though BA was the way to go and was all I wanted. I just now realise this not to be the case)
He wasn't trying to be patronising; he was trying to be encouraging and helpful!
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As I've said before, the key is preparation. Generally speaking, the RAF guys are the best prepared. There is no excuse not to know the share price, who the new CEO is and who is in the Oneworld Alliance. FWIW, if you want to join LH then at least have some idea of who our longhaul competitors are - and Ryanair isn't one of them! Crucially, spend lots of time brushing-up on your mental arithmetic.
A final tip, just because you are an F/O doesn't mean that you can't make some decisions. Its obvious who comes from a company where the F/Os are in the "gear up, flaps up, shut up" mould. Take the lead when its your sector - get involved in the decision making process when it isn't!
NB. There is no automatic buzzword scanning of your applications.
A final tip, just because you are an F/O doesn't mean that you can't make some decisions. Its obvious who comes from a company where the F/Os are in the "gear up, flaps up, shut up" mould. Take the lead when its your sector - get involved in the decision making process when it isn't!
NB. There is no automatic buzzword scanning of your applications.
Last edited by Hot Wings; 28th Apr 2005 at 20:19.
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Guys, a little bit off topic, but I guess we all need to accept that in life not everything we want we will get. Some of you will be accepted at BA others won't, that it life. Sure it's annoying, but you never know what the future is hiding. We all need to keep that in mind (and that includes you guybrush!).
Cheers
guybrush
Cheers
guybrush
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When I attended second stage BA some years ago all I saw throughout the interview was the top of the lady pilot interviewers head!
She had given me the preamble that I shouldn't worry if she was writing while the other (HR) lady was asking me questions. She then continued to write while asking her own questions. Her interview technique was atrocious.
I, like most people, have attended a reasonable number of interviews over the years and have been successful in about 75% of them. This was the most poorly run interview I have ever attended.
Perhaps I was just unlucky with the individual who was doing the interviewing. Needless to say I did not get through second stage.
She had given me the preamble that I shouldn't worry if she was writing while the other (HR) lady was asking me questions. She then continued to write while asking her own questions. Her interview technique was atrocious.
I, like most people, have attended a reasonable number of interviews over the years and have been successful in about 75% of them. This was the most poorly run interview I have ever attended.
Perhaps I was just unlucky with the individual who was doing the interviewing. Needless to say I did not get through second stage.