Air Deccan contract ?
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YYZ,
I have just been informed that AD are monitoring these threads. By your repeated defence or arguments in favour of AD you are keeping them in the 'bad' news.
Haven't you yet learnt, if you leave something be then it is soon forgotten about and will find it's way into the archives. By continuing to post you are keeping it fresh and in the public eye.
I don't think AD will be best pleased with you!
PS, to do a proper search, you go to a persons profile and select all posts by that user, you haven't got a clue who I do, or do not, work for!
I have just been informed that AD are monitoring these threads. By your repeated defence or arguments in favour of AD you are keeping them in the 'bad' news.
Haven't you yet learnt, if you leave something be then it is soon forgotten about and will find it's way into the archives. By continuing to post you are keeping it fresh and in the public eye.
I don't think AD will be best pleased with you!
PS, to do a proper search, you go to a persons profile and select all posts by that user, you haven't got a clue who I do, or do not, work for!
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Clipper One. Sorry Mate had to go off and do a bit of Aviating....
As yourself I am employed full time by an Airline but you know what it is like firstly they have too many pilots then not enough. Last year thoughI got Leave of Absence and then two years before that the winter off . I have worked for Two Agencies and as you read PPRUNE and know that there are good and bad out there and new ones and old ones and those that pay and those that lie and those that cheat and those that will fall over backwards to please their client and sod the workers....... However.. PARC were OK. They paid on time, although they were never around when you made a call. If ever you called them for anything "they were travelling". Big Travellers PARC. But I got my dosh and managed to sort out the problems I had.
Then I worked last year in Italy for Contractair and what can I say, there was a fine balance between client and pilot. Always paid on time, immediate response to calls and e. mails, and believe it or not no problems whatsoever. In fact it was a joy to work with these guys. They cared. I believe it must be difficult for these Agents as they have two people to please us and the Airlines. But not saying there were not problems with the roster and such like there was, but it seemed to get sorted with no problems whatsoever. I have had pals in the same situation as myself who have gone further afield to work and they were not happy with their Agencies. Anyway I am not here to do promotion for Parc and Contractair, but I know without a dount if the latter needed me and I could get loa then I would not hesitate. Lets say I TRUST them. A big word in Aviation I think.
See there has been a bit or arguing going on between our remarks....... But this is my opinion anyway..... Like you say though better of course to work directly.
As yourself I am employed full time by an Airline but you know what it is like firstly they have too many pilots then not enough. Last year thoughI got Leave of Absence and then two years before that the winter off . I have worked for Two Agencies and as you read PPRUNE and know that there are good and bad out there and new ones and old ones and those that pay and those that lie and those that cheat and those that will fall over backwards to please their client and sod the workers....... However.. PARC were OK. They paid on time, although they were never around when you made a call. If ever you called them for anything "they were travelling". Big Travellers PARC. But I got my dosh and managed to sort out the problems I had.
Then I worked last year in Italy for Contractair and what can I say, there was a fine balance between client and pilot. Always paid on time, immediate response to calls and e. mails, and believe it or not no problems whatsoever. In fact it was a joy to work with these guys. They cared. I believe it must be difficult for these Agents as they have two people to please us and the Airlines. But not saying there were not problems with the roster and such like there was, but it seemed to get sorted with no problems whatsoever. I have had pals in the same situation as myself who have gone further afield to work and they were not happy with their Agencies. Anyway I am not here to do promotion for Parc and Contractair, but I know without a dount if the latter needed me and I could get loa then I would not hesitate. Lets say I TRUST them. A big word in Aviation I think.
See there has been a bit or arguing going on between our remarks....... But this is my opinion anyway..... Like you say though better of course to work directly.
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Following PM received from Sigmar Aviation (YYZDUB), he had been trying to silence me but then he put my back up (edited to avoid boredom setting in):
Phileas Fogg,
If you go back and re read what has transpired through the forums here, you will see that there was no ‘biting’ as you put it at the ‘mere mention of one of our clients’, rather it was a defence to what we know to be false. Air Deccan is not our bread and butter and in the grand scheme of things, irrelevant to what has transpired here. Instead, as with similar situations, I would voice my opinion and thoughts to what I believe, and have said all along, to be false.
I agree 100% with what you say about good and bad customers and that some clients are far from ideal. At no time did I ever say Air Deccan was the perfect airline, paying the highest salaries, etc. as you referred to me as having said. However, we do have a close relationship with them, we have a number of pilots who have been onsite for a length of time and as such have voiced what their concerns and what they have experienced and as a note, for the most part all are quite happy with their arrangements.
As for the Colombian pilot. I will admit that I have no idea about his situation. What I can comment on is that you can’t fault Air Deccan for paying the pilot $4000 USD and working him to the max. The pilot always has the option to walk away. Furthermore, I know of no circumstance where someone has ever had to forfeit their passport to their employer be it aviation or any other industry and I find it extremely hard to believe that AD would withhold his. We are talking about a grown adult who would know that he could just take himself to the nearest embassy and request a new passport or report the instance to whomever. He is not working in a communist county, albeit their practices may not follow what us ‘Westerns’ may consider the norm, but for someone to not do anything about something as serious as a passport is just silly.
So, how can you get upset with me for saying that you are a liar. Your post is completely false. We have always had the contract and secondly, as a company we are new, but our experience collectively could be one of the most extensive in the market.
Anyway, PF, I hardly believe what comes out of your mouth – you’re naming opinion as fact rather than what it is – either second/third hand information or just that, opinion.
There is certainly an arrogance to you – I only hope you use it as an alias online and not in your personal life. Best of luck to you.
Phileas Fogg,
If you go back and re read what has transpired through the forums here, you will see that there was no ‘biting’ as you put it at the ‘mere mention of one of our clients’, rather it was a defence to what we know to be false. Air Deccan is not our bread and butter and in the grand scheme of things, irrelevant to what has transpired here. Instead, as with similar situations, I would voice my opinion and thoughts to what I believe, and have said all along, to be false.
I agree 100% with what you say about good and bad customers and that some clients are far from ideal. At no time did I ever say Air Deccan was the perfect airline, paying the highest salaries, etc. as you referred to me as having said. However, we do have a close relationship with them, we have a number of pilots who have been onsite for a length of time and as such have voiced what their concerns and what they have experienced and as a note, for the most part all are quite happy with their arrangements.
As for the Colombian pilot. I will admit that I have no idea about his situation. What I can comment on is that you can’t fault Air Deccan for paying the pilot $4000 USD and working him to the max. The pilot always has the option to walk away. Furthermore, I know of no circumstance where someone has ever had to forfeit their passport to their employer be it aviation or any other industry and I find it extremely hard to believe that AD would withhold his. We are talking about a grown adult who would know that he could just take himself to the nearest embassy and request a new passport or report the instance to whomever. He is not working in a communist county, albeit their practices may not follow what us ‘Westerns’ may consider the norm, but for someone to not do anything about something as serious as a passport is just silly.
So, how can you get upset with me for saying that you are a liar. Your post is completely false. We have always had the contract and secondly, as a company we are new, but our experience collectively could be one of the most extensive in the market.
Anyway, PF, I hardly believe what comes out of your mouth – you’re naming opinion as fact rather than what it is – either second/third hand information or just that, opinion.
There is certainly an arrogance to you – I only hope you use it as an alias online and not in your personal life. Best of luck to you.
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Furthermore, I know of no circumstance where someone has ever had to forfeit their passport to their employer be it aviation or any other industry and I find it extremely hard to believe that AD would withhold his
**********
Well first - what I DONT KNOW- what AD does reg the passports etc.
Now, What I DO KNOW- Passports being held by the employeers for overseas employees is common atleast in many Middle East countries. I should know , my brother works in one those countries (not in aviation agreed - but as a computer engineer) and from him and from many other acquaintances I understand this is standard practice in many such countries.
So please dont make sweeping statements that passports are not held by their employers anywhere etc. Even in India (and again I stress I dont know anything specifically abt AD), it is quite common to find some employers holding onto their employees original educational certiciates etc - so that the staff dont move to another job without adequate notice etc.
Yeah you can always preach the idealism - look for another job et all - but when you have some 1000 people on an avergae chasing for 1 job, sometimes you may have to give in to such compromises etc.
There is something called er unemployment......... and it is not pretty!
**********
Well first - what I DONT KNOW- what AD does reg the passports etc.
Now, What I DO KNOW- Passports being held by the employeers for overseas employees is common atleast in many Middle East countries. I should know , my brother works in one those countries (not in aviation agreed - but as a computer engineer) and from him and from many other acquaintances I understand this is standard practice in many such countries.
So please dont make sweeping statements that passports are not held by their employers anywhere etc. Even in India (and again I stress I dont know anything specifically abt AD), it is quite common to find some employers holding onto their employees original educational certiciates etc - so that the staff dont move to another job without adequate notice etc.
Yeah you can always preach the idealism - look for another job et all - but when you have some 1000 people on an avergae chasing for 1 job, sometimes you may have to give in to such compromises etc.
There is something called er unemployment......... and it is not pretty!
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YYZ....... and Phileas. It is very obvious to me that you YYZ are Sigmar and not sure who Phileas is. cant figure that out. But to be honest if you play these childish games and argue so much wouldnt want to work for either of you. So come on Phileas who are you with. Just one other thing and this refers to Jumpdrive.
Sigmar and aeropersonnel are not the only Agencies with Deccan.
Get your facts right.................... But to be honest YYZ for a new Agency as you say you are, and wish you all the best mate, I think it is time for you to cool it. All the others get a trashing on PPRUNE, Rishworth Parc, but you dont see them reacting as heatedly as yourself.
Lastly there is mention of Passport......... yes it is true that a lot of Middle East companies retain your passports. Not Aviation companies However my advice is if you are ever ever employed with a company who asks to retain your passport get another job!!!!!! NEVER NEVER let go of your passport. What happens if you are stuck in the middle of a terrorist attack somewhere. No Passport. Doesnt bear thinking about. Tell the company to get stuffed. There are plenty of jobs out there, Look at the agencies pages. Just find a job where you dont have to give them your passport. That in my view is a definate no go. Sure they can borrow it get visas etc, but always get a signed piece of paper and always ensure that you get it back. A passport belongs to the Holder no more no less.......:
Sigmar and aeropersonnel are not the only Agencies with Deccan.
Get your facts right.................... But to be honest YYZ for a new Agency as you say you are, and wish you all the best mate, I think it is time for you to cool it. All the others get a trashing on PPRUNE, Rishworth Parc, but you dont see them reacting as heatedly as yourself.
Lastly there is mention of Passport......... yes it is true that a lot of Middle East companies retain your passports. Not Aviation companies However my advice is if you are ever ever employed with a company who asks to retain your passport get another job!!!!!! NEVER NEVER let go of your passport. What happens if you are stuck in the middle of a terrorist attack somewhere. No Passport. Doesnt bear thinking about. Tell the company to get stuffed. There are plenty of jobs out there, Look at the agencies pages. Just find a job where you dont have to give them your passport. That in my view is a definate no go. Sure they can borrow it get visas etc, but always get a signed piece of paper and always ensure that you get it back. A passport belongs to the Holder no more no less.......:
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Wrong. A passport belongs to the government of the country that issued it.
I wouldn't part with mine unless at gunpoint. There is no earthly reason for an airline to retain a passport, other than as a means of keeping you in a country.
I wouldn't part with mine unless at gunpoint. There is no earthly reason for an airline to retain a passport, other than as a means of keeping you in a country.
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I wouldn't part with mine unless at gunpoint. There is no earthly reason for an airline to retain a passport, other than as a means of keeping you in a country.
**********
May be that is the whole idea - Before you go off on that dream vacation, how about letting us , the management,know so that we can do a simple thing like trying to put some one else in your place - after all - we have a small toy called an airplane to fly!!!
Not entirely joking - one airline here in this part of the world (not AD) had to cut down on its schedules by 10% virtually overnight - because some of their senior commanders ( but not expats) decided to go where the grass was greener - or I heard browner!
Labour laws are not water tight everywhere Monsieur RD! And sometimes it works against the bean counters too!
Cheerio
**********
May be that is the whole idea - Before you go off on that dream vacation, how about letting us , the management,know so that we can do a simple thing like trying to put some one else in your place - after all - we have a small toy called an airplane to fly!!!
Not entirely joking - one airline here in this part of the world (not AD) had to cut down on its schedules by 10% virtually overnight - because some of their senior commanders ( but not expats) decided to go where the grass was greener - or I heard browner!
Labour laws are not water tight everywhere Monsieur RD! And sometimes it works against the bean counters too!
Cheerio
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You are correct Raw Data, but as far as I am concerned my passport is mine and if an Airline RSOMAN has to hold onto their pilots passports to stop them jumping ship doesn`t say much for the Airline does it............????? Anyway heard or Freedom of Choice. A pilot can work where he wants to work. Still saying dont give them your passport, I would immediately be suspicious of any Airline asking for mine.. In fact I would pack my bag with or without "greener pastures".
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Stokken (and RD)
Please be rest assured that I am with you totally on this one. All I was trying to highlight is that conditions are different from country to country and in some parts of the world you necessarily dont have much of a choice (as Stokken himself said - in the middle east for eg - for non aviation jobs).
I guess we are digressing and it is better to get back to the topic - AD contracts.
Please be rest assured that I am with you totally on this one. All I was trying to highlight is that conditions are different from country to country and in some parts of the world you necessarily dont have much of a choice (as Stokken himself said - in the middle east for eg - for non aviation jobs).
I guess we are digressing and it is better to get back to the topic - AD contracts.
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NZ,
Yes, P does stand for private, a little bit like my telephone number is private but should I decide to share it, then that is my perogative.
RS,
Yes, I pretty much agree. YYZDUB is obviously quoting rom his text book rather than from the real world. Please note that he previously told me that my report was 100% false but in private, so he thought, he admitted he had no knowledge of it.
YYZ said easy enough to get another passport but is there a Colombian embassy in India, how are you going to depart India with a new passport but without an entry visa, you need to wait for the paid ticket home, the airline tell you they'll give you your passport tomorrow, then another tomorrow etc. and at the end of the day, you also need to get your salary. What a text book world Sigmar Aviation live in?
Stokken,
Who I work for, which is not an agency I hasten to add, is irrelevant. I am here as a private individual, the same as you are and everybody else is, well everybody except YYZ!
A pilot can not work where he wants! You are obviously European with a JAA licence. Just for starters have you heard of licence and immigration restrictions and then of course there are minimum experience requirements.
Just where can a Colombian work with his Colombian licence? Get real!
Yes, P does stand for private, a little bit like my telephone number is private but should I decide to share it, then that is my perogative.
RS,
Yes, I pretty much agree. YYZDUB is obviously quoting rom his text book rather than from the real world. Please note that he previously told me that my report was 100% false but in private, so he thought, he admitted he had no knowledge of it.
YYZ said easy enough to get another passport but is there a Colombian embassy in India, how are you going to depart India with a new passport but without an entry visa, you need to wait for the paid ticket home, the airline tell you they'll give you your passport tomorrow, then another tomorrow etc. and at the end of the day, you also need to get your salary. What a text book world Sigmar Aviation live in?
Stokken,
Who I work for, which is not an agency I hasten to add, is irrelevant. I am here as a private individual, the same as you are and everybody else is, well everybody except YYZ!
A pilot can not work where he wants! You are obviously European with a JAA licence. Just for starters have you heard of licence and immigration restrictions and then of course there are minimum experience requirements.
Just where can a Colombian work with his Colombian licence? Get real!
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Hi Jumpdrive, I mentioned it earlier in the thread........... I dont want to do unecessary advertising for the company....thinks its on Page 1 or 2.............
All the best and hang on to your passport. Phileas. Amazed you are not an agency mate,,,, but its amazing how you can wind up Sigmar....:
All the best and hang on to your passport. Phileas. Amazed you are not an agency mate,,,, but its amazing how you can wind up Sigmar....:
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Stokken,
It's a very small industry and one hears a lot, I think I'm peeing off YYZ just because I know things going on inside Deccan that he isn't aware of and he considers 'Deccan' his own.
Either that or I'm hurting his commission related salary, there he is, day in day out, trying to attract suckers to work for Deccan, and here I am, hurting his bank balance ..... perhaps!
It's a very small industry and one hears a lot, I think I'm peeing off YYZ just because I know things going on inside Deccan that he isn't aware of and he considers 'Deccan' his own.
Either that or I'm hurting his commission related salary, there he is, day in day out, trying to attract suckers to work for Deccan, and here I am, hurting his bank balance ..... perhaps!
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Phileas Fogg,
I agree Deccan is a joke and will be one.
The young girl teaching systems and tech has never worked in her life before, she is a fresh grad from uni the poor girl is just so damn excited to have such a job.
Some how she went from Tech Services Supervisor to Grd Inst in matter of days??????
As for the cabin crew SEP the less said the better.
I agree Deccan is a joke and will be one.
The young girl teaching systems and tech has never worked in her life before, she is a fresh grad from uni the poor girl is just so damn excited to have such a job.
Some how she went from Tech Services Supervisor to Grd Inst in matter of days??????
As for the cabin crew SEP the less said the better.
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Monsoon Flying
Things are getting warm for a lot of operators!
http://www.dgca.nic.in/circular/Ops%201_2004(rev).pdf
Does AD and the rest of the new boys have that many qualified pilots?
I know Indian Airlines and Jet have, but the others?
http://www.dgca.nic.in/circular/Ops%201_2004(rev).pdf
Does AD and the rest of the new boys have that many qualified pilots?
I know Indian Airlines and Jet have, but the others?
Last edited by rsoman; 20th Jun 2005 at 13:26.
