Ba Franchises Now Better Than Mainline
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Ba Franchises Now Better Than Mainline
With a 14.5% company pension contribution , a 3% payrise it looks like GB is a better bet than shorthaul . How can a Franchise reward flight deck like this , and mainline BA LHR stagnates ?
Its the overhead dummy..........?
Its the overhead dummy..........?
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Also consider ;
* Time to command considerably better . ( DEP's joining mainline this year now may never get a command)
* More interesting destinations. ( certainly less hassle factor than AMS CDG FCO etc etc!)
* No stroppy bus drivers/cabin staff
* One set of cabin crew per tour . Ie better intergration and morale?
* Younger prettier cabin crew
* Flight crew don't get BASSA card (and finger) waved in their face if there is a requirement to go into discretion by 3 minutes.
* younger a/c with less ADD's
* a more "can do" attitude .. wheras mainline tends to be "can't do!"
And finally I guess that the whole atmsophere is a bit more positive. BA suffers from an attitude amongst its more senoir employess "that it is the worlds finest and can still teach other operators how things should be done". A pity eh?
* Time to command considerably better . ( DEP's joining mainline this year now may never get a command)
* More interesting destinations. ( certainly less hassle factor than AMS CDG FCO etc etc!)
* No stroppy bus drivers/cabin staff
* One set of cabin crew per tour . Ie better intergration and morale?
* Younger prettier cabin crew
* Flight crew don't get BASSA card (and finger) waved in their face if there is a requirement to go into discretion by 3 minutes.
* younger a/c with less ADD's
* a more "can do" attitude .. wheras mainline tends to be "can't do!"
And finally I guess that the whole atmsophere is a bit more positive. BA suffers from an attitude amongst its more senoir employess "that it is the worlds finest and can still teach other operators how things should be done". A pity eh?
And that's just the sort of condescending twaddle that is the difference between some of the people at BA and those of the franchisees. I'm not going to tar all people with the same brush as you are Quid, because there are some damn fine people at BA, but there are also those like yourself that seem to think that there are 2 types of pilot - those that are in BA and those that failed selection. How delusional is that??
For me, BA mainline is not my cup of tea.....and it's not because I'm BA bashing, it's just that I'm happy with my lot. Is that so difficult to grasp??
For me, BA mainline is not my cup of tea.....and it's not because I'm BA bashing, it's just that I'm happy with my lot. Is that so difficult to grasp??
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Quid,
How embarrassing, you've really let yourself down................
I've never applied to BA, its not my sort of firm, why do you lot always consider that the rest of us outside of BA are all jealous of your position?
At best delusional at worst utter arrogance..............
How embarrassing, you've really let yourself down................
I've never applied to BA, its not my sort of firm, why do you lot always consider that the rest of us outside of BA are all jealous of your position?
At best delusional at worst utter arrogance..............
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With regard to people failing the BA recruitment drive, you will find a number of GB pilots have indeed turned down interview offers and also job offers.
Quidnunc - I also find it necessary to point out that Looser is the incorrect spelling for loser ! I thought BA recruitment were always hot on spelling and such like - Obviously you slipped through the net !
Quidnunc - I also find it necessary to point out that Looser is the incorrect spelling for loser ! I thought BA recruitment were always hot on spelling and such like - Obviously you slipped through the net !
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From Scarlet P "those like yourself that seem to think that there are 2 types of pilot - those that are in BA and those that failed selection. How delusional is that??
Just brilliant - that,s exactly how he thinks....
Just to add some mitigating circumstances, I can say that Quid is LGW based and may not recognise the dissappointing shambles that is BA at LHR (shorthaul)-.
...And quoting from another BA mainline Guy (spam man) - actual facts .
Don’t go to BA.
Why?
Well, in the past two weeks I’ve experienced:
· An hour wait for transport between terminals to operate a flight that was already 2hrs late. (we got into a engineers van, - some entire crews got London buses between terminals.)
· Cabin crew not prepared to dispatch on a domestic sector without a 5th crewmember.
· 3 Aircraft stands full of misplaced baggage.
· Cabin crew requiring \\\\\\\'38 minutes at table\\\\\\\' (to eat at a crew lounge) after a single 1.5hr sector, causing delays to get worse
· Tug drivers disconnecting and going home, despite being already connected to an aircraft with a pushback sequence number and passengers that are already 3 hrs late.
· Cabin crew not getting up to start their service until the TOC, on a 40 minute sector
· Dispatchers that are ‘not permitted any longer’ to print off flight plans form there computers for flight crew.
· Airside bus drivers dropping an outbound crew off at the aircraft, f’ing and blinding at me because I have asked for them to take our inbound crew back to the car park. And then driving off without us
· Finding crew buses ‘hiding’ in Terminal 1, when there are crews that have been waiting for 2 hrs for transport to or from their next trip on other stands, because the bus dispatcher radio controller is ‘not allowed to call them’
· Company radio frequencies replying to 25% of radio call for the whole of the LHR fleet
· Cabin crew that are not asked & ‘not permitted’ by the union to go into discretion (or they’ll be fined - allegedly…)
· Multiple & extensively delayed departures not having any customer service staff in attendance at the gates
· Crew control not advising dispatchers or flight crew that their flight which is waiting to board has no cabin crew to cover the flight
· The presumption that cabin crew will never go into discretion.
· Flights being retimed (read: delayed) for cabin crew needing more rest in the hotel than the flight crew
· The presumption that flight crew will ALWAYS go into discretion without referring to them
· Several times a week, being asked by cabin crew if we can ensure that our passengers who pay our mortgages, will be delayed further than they are already so they get £50,
I’ve worked in some grot holes, in & out of aviation in the past, but the sheer negativity and CANT do attitude at BA is really beyond belief.
If you think the continuity of your pay check is safe, stay where you are.
I wish I had
Just brilliant - that,s exactly how he thinks....
Just to add some mitigating circumstances, I can say that Quid is LGW based and may not recognise the dissappointing shambles that is BA at LHR (shorthaul)-.
...And quoting from another BA mainline Guy (spam man) - actual facts .
Don’t go to BA.
Why?
Well, in the past two weeks I’ve experienced:
· An hour wait for transport between terminals to operate a flight that was already 2hrs late. (we got into a engineers van, - some entire crews got London buses between terminals.)
· Cabin crew not prepared to dispatch on a domestic sector without a 5th crewmember.
· 3 Aircraft stands full of misplaced baggage.
· Cabin crew requiring \\\\\\\'38 minutes at table\\\\\\\' (to eat at a crew lounge) after a single 1.5hr sector, causing delays to get worse
· Tug drivers disconnecting and going home, despite being already connected to an aircraft with a pushback sequence number and passengers that are already 3 hrs late.
· Cabin crew not getting up to start their service until the TOC, on a 40 minute sector
· Dispatchers that are ‘not permitted any longer’ to print off flight plans form there computers for flight crew.
· Airside bus drivers dropping an outbound crew off at the aircraft, f’ing and blinding at me because I have asked for them to take our inbound crew back to the car park. And then driving off without us
· Finding crew buses ‘hiding’ in Terminal 1, when there are crews that have been waiting for 2 hrs for transport to or from their next trip on other stands, because the bus dispatcher radio controller is ‘not allowed to call them’
· Company radio frequencies replying to 25% of radio call for the whole of the LHR fleet
· Cabin crew that are not asked & ‘not permitted’ by the union to go into discretion (or they’ll be fined - allegedly…)
· Multiple & extensively delayed departures not having any customer service staff in attendance at the gates
· Crew control not advising dispatchers or flight crew that their flight which is waiting to board has no cabin crew to cover the flight
· The presumption that cabin crew will never go into discretion.
· Flights being retimed (read: delayed) for cabin crew needing more rest in the hotel than the flight crew
· The presumption that flight crew will ALWAYS go into discretion without referring to them
· Several times a week, being asked by cabin crew if we can ensure that our passengers who pay our mortgages, will be delayed further than they are already so they get £50,
I’ve worked in some grot holes, in & out of aviation in the past, but the sheer negativity and CANT do attitude at BA is really beyond belief.
If you think the continuity of your pay check is safe, stay where you are.
I wish I had
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Shuttleworth Be advised that LH at LHR is no better ( "or not any better" before I get criticised by the spelling and grammar police) However, I find a good grasp of slang and bad grammar is essential for talking to the rest of the company.
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Sadly I, and I am sure, many of my colleagues would tend to agree with the general thrust of this thread. (Though not with the generalised assessment of ALL nigels!)
I honestly believe there are better airlines to work for than BA, it does feel as though the whole place is going down the tubes.
I cannot believe BA will exist in anything like it's current shape in 5 years. In many ways, the organisation as a whole, doesn't deserve to!
In the defence of nigels, I don't actually believe we are contributing too much to the malaise. In shorthaul in particular, pilots work as hard as most, and I suspect, cope with more frustrations than any! As the title of this thread implies remuneration is no longer 'head and shoulders' above the rest! I believe 'market rate' is the watchword!
Which I hope you will all understand is why it is DOUBLY frustrating to see franchises thriving, making good profits, whilst appearing to pay their pilots so well!
Which I suppose, is a round about way of saying:
"It's the overhead dummy!"
I honestly believe there are better airlines to work for than BA, it does feel as though the whole place is going down the tubes.
I cannot believe BA will exist in anything like it's current shape in 5 years. In many ways, the organisation as a whole, doesn't deserve to!
In the defence of nigels, I don't actually believe we are contributing too much to the malaise. In shorthaul in particular, pilots work as hard as most, and I suspect, cope with more frustrations than any! As the title of this thread implies remuneration is no longer 'head and shoulders' above the rest! I believe 'market rate' is the watchword!
Which I hope you will all understand is why it is DOUBLY frustrating to see franchises thriving, making good profits, whilst appearing to pay their pilots so well!
Which I suppose, is a round about way of saying:
"It's the overhead dummy!"
Shuttleworth, I have every sympathy.
As a passenger who has been flying on BA (and not cheap tickets!) on two of the last three occasions where its shorthaul schedule imploded in spectacular style (snow in London at the end of January and the Swanwick ATC failure), I remain amazed that BA's operation is run this way. I luckily managed to avoid being on a BA flight on the day of the recent storms hitting Heathrow.
It is high time for Mike Street to step down - the man and his team appear to have no capability to manage their operation to deliver the service that they promise to their customers.
What really defeats me is this:
On my flight to Lyon at the end of January, we were waiting for an aircraft to arrive from Brussels; flight crew from Manchester; three cabin crew from Helsinki and two more cabin crew from Lisbon to join up together to operate the flight to Lyon. Due to delays in other flights arriving, we eventually left three hours late.
BA's computerised resource planning systems tell them that this is the most efficient way to work. However, if anything hiccups (e.g. weather, ATC etc) then the standby resources built into the system are rapidly eroded and the disruption then snowballs out of hand. The result is that the entire shorthaul schedule drops to bits for at least two days after any major events, with a massive loss of revenue, higher costs and irritated passengers. The costs of this must far outweight the alleged savings on crew numbers over the year. Add to this the bad publicity that BA invariably attracts - "X flights cancelled by BA due to hedgehog loose on runway at Heathrow" - and you could actually have a half-decent operation.
Simple message - keep the aircraft and crew together throughout the entire working day. Avoid all of the crew transport costs; extra crew waiting allowances, meal breaks and all of the other rubbish that has built up over the years. Keep the crew with the aircraft until the working day has been completed, and they'll have every incentive to reduce delays to get home sooner. It's good for the customer and means that BA's schedules will recover faster from disruption caused by external factors over which BA has no control.
Even American Airlines have learnt this lesson and are starting to keep the aircraft and crews together for the working day. So, from one of your regular customers - please, oh please, throw the computer resource planners in the bin and just run the operation along simple lines. I can't bear the thought of another six hour delay at Lyon airport for my return flight.
As a passenger who has been flying on BA (and not cheap tickets!) on two of the last three occasions where its shorthaul schedule imploded in spectacular style (snow in London at the end of January and the Swanwick ATC failure), I remain amazed that BA's operation is run this way. I luckily managed to avoid being on a BA flight on the day of the recent storms hitting Heathrow.
It is high time for Mike Street to step down - the man and his team appear to have no capability to manage their operation to deliver the service that they promise to their customers.
What really defeats me is this:
On my flight to Lyon at the end of January, we were waiting for an aircraft to arrive from Brussels; flight crew from Manchester; three cabin crew from Helsinki and two more cabin crew from Lisbon to join up together to operate the flight to Lyon. Due to delays in other flights arriving, we eventually left three hours late.
BA's computerised resource planning systems tell them that this is the most efficient way to work. However, if anything hiccups (e.g. weather, ATC etc) then the standby resources built into the system are rapidly eroded and the disruption then snowballs out of hand. The result is that the entire shorthaul schedule drops to bits for at least two days after any major events, with a massive loss of revenue, higher costs and irritated passengers. The costs of this must far outweight the alleged savings on crew numbers over the year. Add to this the bad publicity that BA invariably attracts - "X flights cancelled by BA due to hedgehog loose on runway at Heathrow" - and you could actually have a half-decent operation.
Simple message - keep the aircraft and crew together throughout the entire working day. Avoid all of the crew transport costs; extra crew waiting allowances, meal breaks and all of the other rubbish that has built up over the years. Keep the crew with the aircraft until the working day has been completed, and they'll have every incentive to reduce delays to get home sooner. It's good for the customer and means that BA's schedules will recover faster from disruption caused by external factors over which BA has no control.
Even American Airlines have learnt this lesson and are starting to keep the aircraft and crews together for the working day. So, from one of your regular customers - please, oh please, throw the computer resource planners in the bin and just run the operation along simple lines. I can't bear the thought of another six hour delay at Lyon airport for my return flight.
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Flightrider
I don't think you will find many disagreeing with you from within the BA pilot community.
I have just done a 3-day, 8-sector trip with 7 different cabin crews - and that is fairly typical.
The fundamental problem in BA crewing is that there are 3 different groups scheduling the operation. One group schedule the aircraft, the next the pilots and the third the cabin crew.
Overlay on top of this the restrictive cabin crew practises of needing a break (unlike any other airline's cabin crew), at LHR between flights and you end up with excess transporting of crews airside at LHR, the second biggest bus operator in the UK (yes, BA), unnecessary extra transportation costs to/ from hotels at outstations etc etc.
A complete shambles, all about savings on individual budgets, even if cumulatively it adds thousands coporately.
I don't think you will find many disagreeing with you from within the BA pilot community.
I have just done a 3-day, 8-sector trip with 7 different cabin crews - and that is fairly typical.
The fundamental problem in BA crewing is that there are 3 different groups scheduling the operation. One group schedule the aircraft, the next the pilots and the third the cabin crew.
Overlay on top of this the restrictive cabin crew practises of needing a break (unlike any other airline's cabin crew), at LHR between flights and you end up with excess transporting of crews airside at LHR, the second biggest bus operator in the UK (yes, BA), unnecessary extra transportation costs to/ from hotels at outstations etc etc.
A complete shambles, all about savings on individual budgets, even if cumulatively it adds thousands coporately.
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Jet A1
A number of guys have turned down interview and job offers?
Well why did they apply then to turn down interviews ? Have you seen that application form? You can only fill it in if you really want to ! To much effort for anything else.....
A number of guys have turned down interview and job offers?
Well why did they apply then to turn down interviews ? Have you seen that application form? You can only fill it in if you really want to ! To much effort for anything else.....
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Better ask Mystic Meg on that one MAGIC2!!! Or find out the status of the 6 options...
As for turning down offers there are many reasons, personal and professional why people might go through the trauma of the process and still not take the job when offered.
Has anyone been given a start date though, last I heard they were witholding contracts and still talking about the exact terms of the new with BALPA...
As for turning down offers there are many reasons, personal and professional why people might go through the trauma of the process and still not take the job when offered.
Has anyone been given a start date though, last I heard they were witholding contracts and still talking about the exact terms of the new with BALPA...
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Attitude (a good, positive one), mutual respect (cross trades), passion (for the job), willingness (to go the extra mile)...is missing from the majority of BA employees.