is the grass any greener?
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: the forest from which little acorns do big oak trees grow.
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is the grass any greener?
right, here goes:
i'm currently a captain for the web's allegedly favourite airline but i'm now growing weary of charging across europe 5 days out of 8 and getting treated with utter contempt by management who are quite frankly rotten to the core. so, now that STN base is 'frozen', i'm looking at my options. (and i suspect i may not be the only one!!)
the problem is that any move i make is going to affect my family so i'm trying to find out as much information as possible.
i'd really like some lifestyle opinions from other sectors (eg long haul/ charter/cargo/overseas) and/or my prospects with another employer. i hardly see the wife and kids when i'm working anyway so i'd be happy to hear about anything relevant!
i'd be especially interested to hear from anyone who made a move from low cost. (i'm not really interested in moving to another low cost operator)
i realise that not everybody is suited to every lifestyle so if you reply i'd be grateful for as many facts as possible to try to make up my own mind.
this is a genuine enquiry, so thank you in advance.
i'm currently a captain for the web's allegedly favourite airline but i'm now growing weary of charging across europe 5 days out of 8 and getting treated with utter contempt by management who are quite frankly rotten to the core. so, now that STN base is 'frozen', i'm looking at my options. (and i suspect i may not be the only one!!)
the problem is that any move i make is going to affect my family so i'm trying to find out as much information as possible.
i'd really like some lifestyle opinions from other sectors (eg long haul/ charter/cargo/overseas) and/or my prospects with another employer. i hardly see the wife and kids when i'm working anyway so i'd be happy to hear about anything relevant!
i'd be especially interested to hear from anyone who made a move from low cost. (i'm not really interested in moving to another low cost operator)
i realise that not everybody is suited to every lifestyle so if you reply i'd be grateful for as many facts as possible to try to make up my own mind.
this is a genuine enquiry, so thank you in advance.
Join Date: May 2000
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I left a brightly coloured LCA and now fly charter 738's. The work is much lower pressure, and we're treated with respect by our colleagues (crewing and ops even call flt crew Sir!). We have some long days (Egypt and back is about 5.5 hours each way), but some shorter ones too, and there isn't the continuous rushing around (plenty of time to stretch your legs and have e brew on a 1hr turn-round).
The only fly in the ointment is being based away from home, but I'm less shagged out and stressed on my days off, so I suppose I'll live longer and enjoy my family more.
Just check the payscales before you decide - you may lose a lot of money if you leave, but it may be worth it.
The only fly in the ointment is being based away from home, but I'm less shagged out and stressed on my days off, so I suppose I'll live longer and enjoy my family more.
Just check the payscales before you decide - you may lose a lot of money if you leave, but it may be worth it.
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many thanks, whippersnapper. interesting to see that charter, which on the face of it would be my least preferable option, might be an improvement after all. did you suffer much of a salary cut? (you can send me a pm if you wish).
anybody else out there?
anybody else out there?
Join Date: May 2002
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Whippersnapper, they don't call me Sir!!!!
Ryanair Pilot, the time to command at many of the UK charter airlines is looking very long at the moment, and if you were to choose them then you will be joining as an FO on around £38-40k to start. British Mediterranean I think are expanding at the moment so possibly an earlier command with them.
The charters do vary, we are undercrewed this summer (although not if you talk to the management) and are generally working 90-100 hours per month, with some single days off, 7 day runs, early starts after days off and plenty of night flights. Winters can be quieter, but not necessarily that quiet - flying 90 hours in a "winter" month isn't that uncommon, although its not every month.
Just a thought.
Ryanair Pilot, the time to command at many of the UK charter airlines is looking very long at the moment, and if you were to choose them then you will be joining as an FO on around £38-40k to start. British Mediterranean I think are expanding at the moment so possibly an earlier command with them.
The charters do vary, we are undercrewed this summer (although not if you talk to the management) and are generally working 90-100 hours per month, with some single days off, 7 day runs, early starts after days off and plenty of night flights. Winters can be quieter, but not necessarily that quiet - flying 90 hours in a "winter" month isn't that uncommon, although its not every month.
Just a thought.
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Airbus Girl
100 hours per monthin the summer (lets say 90). That leaves you with 360 hours for the winter months which equates to 60 hours per month. I doubt very much that you will be up to 900 hours for the year.
Why not put a more optimistic look on things. Lets face it the alternative is bleak as pointed out above.
100 hours per monthin the summer (lets say 90). That leaves you with 360 hours for the winter months which equates to 60 hours per month. I doubt very much that you will be up to 900 hours for the year.
Why not put a more optimistic look on things. Lets face it the alternative is bleak as pointed out above.
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Airbus Grill,
Love and Life at any Charter I would say is better than Lo Cost (pond life).
And currently Britannia, the pilots favourite, are recruiting for Mainline and TFly, I gather the Tfly guys are in for a big windfall salary rise as the company want all T+C under one roof. i.e. Britannia.
Time to command is not everything.
Love and Life at any Charter I would say is better than Lo Cost (pond life).
And currently Britannia, the pilots favourite, are recruiting for Mainline and TFly, I gather the Tfly guys are in for a big windfall salary rise as the company want all T+C under one roof. i.e. Britannia.
Time to command is not everything.
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Ryanairpilot, one of my concerns with charter was the number of night flights. The reality is at least in our charter company we do very few winter night flights and say on average two/three a month in the summer (although the trend seems to be for less). As a union agreement we are allowed a maximum of two night flights in a row and 90 hours in 28 days, 900 hours a year. My roster is fairly stable and a vast improvement on previous companies although I work more weekends.
One big disadvantage of my employer is time to command that is really anyone’s guess, but at least ten years plus from joining (all seniority based) is my guess. To try to help compensate for this we have pay increments each year and a pay bridge on transfer to left seat.
T&C's not now as good for new joiners (no final salary pension), but the ancillaries that you have to pay for in Ryanair do add up. On saying the above you would undoubtedly at least on face value as a skipper be better off financially at Ryanair than one of our FO's but the hassle and lack of support is another thing.
In some ways the fleet and basing also make a major difference to lifestyle and it is difficult once joined to change these in our company. One advantage that I did not really appreciate at first is that in the charter industry depending on fleet and basing there is a real variety of destinations and thus different approaches (and sometimes types) to fly that helps keep it fresh although some of them I could do without!
On balance, although I work for a good employer and am happy here, I would hesitate in recommending it to new joiners unless they were young and/or had low experience and were prepared to spend the majority of their career here. At present (since 2001) we have not been recruiting permanent staff but that will have to change soon.
Which companies to look at should be highly influenced by your age and thus you’re long term potential in your future employer.
One big disadvantage of my employer is time to command that is really anyone’s guess, but at least ten years plus from joining (all seniority based) is my guess. To try to help compensate for this we have pay increments each year and a pay bridge on transfer to left seat.
T&C's not now as good for new joiners (no final salary pension), but the ancillaries that you have to pay for in Ryanair do add up. On saying the above you would undoubtedly at least on face value as a skipper be better off financially at Ryanair than one of our FO's but the hassle and lack of support is another thing.
In some ways the fleet and basing also make a major difference to lifestyle and it is difficult once joined to change these in our company. One advantage that I did not really appreciate at first is that in the charter industry depending on fleet and basing there is a real variety of destinations and thus different approaches (and sometimes types) to fly that helps keep it fresh although some of them I could do without!
On balance, although I work for a good employer and am happy here, I would hesitate in recommending it to new joiners unless they were young and/or had low experience and were prepared to spend the majority of their career here. At present (since 2001) we have not been recruiting permanent staff but that will have to change soon.
Which companies to look at should be highly influenced by your age and thus you’re long term potential in your future employer.
Last edited by Alloy; 19th Aug 2004 at 10:23.
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Ryanairpilot
I left a colourful LCC in 2000 and joined a far east Company. I can commute and have straight days off at home. In the meantime I changed Aircraft type as well. I have some other pain but there is no perfect world. I could compromise the distance by the value of 10 days home straight on my time. Salary is competable as well.
There are jobs in middle east and far east where you can stay with the family. It is not for everybody to choose that path but it works for me as my days off are mine and no Crew control is calling me and ask if I am available to fly on my day off. If You like to stay in the sand pit then there are options as well. There are some oasis out there as well where the grass is green. Set yourself a goal and then evaluate.
If you want to get more insight PM or E-mail me [email protected]
NG
There are jobs in middle east and far east where you can stay with the family. It is not for everybody to choose that path but it works for me as my days off are mine and no Crew control is calling me and ask if I am available to fly on my day off. If You like to stay in the sand pit then there are options as well. There are some oasis out there as well where the grass is green. Set yourself a goal and then evaluate.
If you want to get more insight PM or E-mail me [email protected]
NG
Last edited by B737NG; 19th Aug 2004 at 19:22.
