Air Atlanta 747-200
Air Atlanta 747-200
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Dada
Your response is very interesting.
Air Atlanta and its people have had a wonderful time over the last couple of weeks undermining European.
Given the number of postings on this forum referring to the 'sweatshop Air Atlanta' plus others referring to their dubious practices I think the post is more than legitimate.
This is a an opportunity for all who have had poor experiences with Air Atlanta to air them now!
Your response is very interesting.
Air Atlanta and its people have had a wonderful time over the last couple of weeks undermining European.
Given the number of postings on this forum referring to the 'sweatshop Air Atlanta' plus others referring to their dubious practices I think the post is more than legitimate.
This is a an opportunity for all who have had poor experiences with Air Atlanta to air them now!
Join Date: Oct 1998
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"Air Atlanta and its people have had a wonderful time over the last couple of weeks undermining European."
thats an ironic qoute, as from what I can see it is a continual series of Atlanta bashing posts in the last few weeks.
What makes European so damn high and mighty anyway? they lost a contract, so what, it happens, did they have some god given right to work at any cost? no, they lost, AAI won, ... this time.
I seem to remember when EAC came on the scene, they proudly claimed to all that would listen that they were going to put AAI out of business! didnt here anyone standing up to defend AAI then.
Don`t forget that AAI has a full UK AOC, they have as much right to work in the UK as Monarch, BA, and yes even European, so get over it, stop continually bashing Atlanta, they have alot of really good people, who enjoy the job, and yes, do! get paid.
thats an ironic qoute, as from what I can see it is a continual series of Atlanta bashing posts in the last few weeks.
What makes European so damn high and mighty anyway? they lost a contract, so what, it happens, did they have some god given right to work at any cost? no, they lost, AAI won, ... this time.
I seem to remember when EAC came on the scene, they proudly claimed to all that would listen that they were going to put AAI out of business! didnt here anyone standing up to defend AAI then.
Don`t forget that AAI has a full UK AOC, they have as much right to work in the UK as Monarch, BA, and yes even European, so get over it, stop continually bashing Atlanta, they have alot of really good people, who enjoy the job, and yes, do! get paid.
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I am neutral when it comes to Air Atlanta, I have been with them now for 3 years , in which time I have read many post’s and never responded, today I’m about to change that.
I am not a yes man with Atlanta, far from it as many of my colleagues can testify too.
If I see something that I believe is wrong I speak to the management and tell them I am not happy, and they listen.
All the aircraft I have flown for Atlanta (B767 fleet ) have been well maintained, on some occasions I have had a difference of opinion with the engineer’s about a deferred defect, we have discussed it they have agreed with me and the item has been sorted prior to departure.
So that’s an insight to the standard of maintenance I have seen.
What about the foreign pilot aspect :-
Even before Atlanta had a uk aoc I felt I could standup for them with regards to the Foreign pilot issue, as their operation is world wide, and if you count the number of European pilots employed by Atlanta who choose to work outside Europe and the number of Foreign pilots working within Europe I think you will see it does equal out.
So people who want to write about foreign pilot issues should look closer to home, as many UK companies in the past have employed pilots from west of 30 west during our summer, some companies send European guys the other way during winter, but never equal number’s.
What about the low pay Atlanta pilots are paid, Well it’s not the best in the industry that’s for sure, I made over $110,000 during the last 12 months with a normal $ exchange rate that would have been acceptable, with the dollar @ 1.88 I lost 21,000 sterling compared with the exchange rate in my first year.
Getting home, Well this job does not suit all guys. If you have a family then it’s not for you.
I have been home only 10 days in 3 years, But that’s fine for me just now, however things will change in my life and then I have to exchange time off for reduced pay, But I choose when I work and when I don’t. What other company could I take 3 months of to discover South America.
I’m lucky because my out going are not hi and I can do that, of course I would prefer to change the present system to make the perfect world.
It’s also been said that the Icelandic guys get the cream of the work, Well that’s half true in that the company do look at seniority most of the time, From what I can see the Icelandic pilots that get the cream are indeed senior on the list so why not give them the choice..Some Icelandic first officers who joined the company from Iceland air where paid less than other first offices joining around the same and did not do well with the choice of base either.
Duty hours is another subject which seems to be a topic people are interested in. Yes on occasion crewing read the rules a different way to the way I read them, But I give them my interpretation, they don’t always agree but as the captain I always have the final say.
Air Atlanta’s future, With 9 747’s on long term contract, plus another 6 on short term contract’s and new work arriving every month, 7 767’s with Atlanta now cherry picking which contracts to take and which to drop, plus 4 757’s , the ownership of a large maintenance facility in the group, and other projects on the horizon I think there is no better place to be for job security.
Summary : most things in Atlanta are ok, the job does not suite everyone, Things that need sorting, Staff travel (economy travel, Strange routings for cost ,and taking buses to the simulator),paid days off and a good seniority system.
We have to let the management know what we are not happy about so we have a chance to make this job the job we want.
And to my colleagues in companies who are not doing so well just now I wish you all the best through the difficult times, I hope that things work out for you all.
I am not a yes man with Atlanta, far from it as many of my colleagues can testify too.
If I see something that I believe is wrong I speak to the management and tell them I am not happy, and they listen.
All the aircraft I have flown for Atlanta (B767 fleet ) have been well maintained, on some occasions I have had a difference of opinion with the engineer’s about a deferred defect, we have discussed it they have agreed with me and the item has been sorted prior to departure.
So that’s an insight to the standard of maintenance I have seen.
What about the foreign pilot aspect :-
Even before Atlanta had a uk aoc I felt I could standup for them with regards to the Foreign pilot issue, as their operation is world wide, and if you count the number of European pilots employed by Atlanta who choose to work outside Europe and the number of Foreign pilots working within Europe I think you will see it does equal out.
So people who want to write about foreign pilot issues should look closer to home, as many UK companies in the past have employed pilots from west of 30 west during our summer, some companies send European guys the other way during winter, but never equal number’s.
What about the low pay Atlanta pilots are paid, Well it’s not the best in the industry that’s for sure, I made over $110,000 during the last 12 months with a normal $ exchange rate that would have been acceptable, with the dollar @ 1.88 I lost 21,000 sterling compared with the exchange rate in my first year.
Getting home, Well this job does not suit all guys. If you have a family then it’s not for you.
I have been home only 10 days in 3 years, But that’s fine for me just now, however things will change in my life and then I have to exchange time off for reduced pay, But I choose when I work and when I don’t. What other company could I take 3 months of to discover South America.
I’m lucky because my out going are not hi and I can do that, of course I would prefer to change the present system to make the perfect world.
It’s also been said that the Icelandic guys get the cream of the work, Well that’s half true in that the company do look at seniority most of the time, From what I can see the Icelandic pilots that get the cream are indeed senior on the list so why not give them the choice..Some Icelandic first officers who joined the company from Iceland air where paid less than other first offices joining around the same and did not do well with the choice of base either.
Duty hours is another subject which seems to be a topic people are interested in. Yes on occasion crewing read the rules a different way to the way I read them, But I give them my interpretation, they don’t always agree but as the captain I always have the final say.
Air Atlanta’s future, With 9 747’s on long term contract, plus another 6 on short term contract’s and new work arriving every month, 7 767’s with Atlanta now cherry picking which contracts to take and which to drop, plus 4 757’s , the ownership of a large maintenance facility in the group, and other projects on the horizon I think there is no better place to be for job security.
Summary : most things in Atlanta are ok, the job does not suite everyone, Things that need sorting, Staff travel (economy travel, Strange routings for cost ,and taking buses to the simulator),paid days off and a good seniority system.
We have to let the management know what we are not happy about so we have a chance to make this job the job we want.
And to my colleagues in companies who are not doing so well just now I wish you all the best through the difficult times, I hope that things work out for you all.
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Air Atlanta
Unless things have changed recently AA are probably the most unfit shower to hold a UK AOC. they brake all the rules to undercut the opposition. To me it is still the biggest mystery in aviation they have never lost a hull. It's obivously better to be lucky than good or even incompitant.
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I would like to comment on icemanalgeria's comments. I too WAS at AAI, however, I was on the 747. I will admit right up front I am not neutral. I think AAI could be the best place in the world to work, but not as it is presently.
Maintenance: In general, not too bad. Normally there aren't too many DMI (MEL items) running around. However, there is an extrodinary amount of repeat writeups. The original writeup really never gets fixed the first time. Cabin items will almost never get fixed. The IFE system on the pax a/c is a good example or the APUs on ATX/ATZ or the keel beam on ARG!
FFF Pilots: They get a much better "deal". 3 weeks on 3 weeks off. Good for them. It's an Icelandic company and they should look out for the home team. However, not at the expense of everyone else. I remember having a discussion with the head of crew scheduling, Asgeir about some type of scheduling for the contract pilots. We talked about something along the lines of 20days on and 10 days off. He agreeded it could be done and it would be more fair than the current system. However, that was really too much work for the schedulers to do. The current system worked fine.
Duty Day: I guess the 767 must be different than the 747. For any Hajj flights, especially out of Africa, you will be over any interpretation of the duty limits. There is no different way of reading it at all. But, if you raise the issue, you will be sent home and never called back. There are other examples of this too, any troop movements in and out of KWI you would be out of duty day before you even left the ground. The planned ground time was 1+00. Not too good. So, crews were always placed in a very difficult position. The tail strike in 2002 is another example of how crews are asked implicitly to bust duty limits.
Is AAI for everyone? No. If you want a life other than AAI, then it's not for you.
On dograt's comments: He's right to a certain degree. The reason they haven't had any problems is not because of management; it's because of the crews. Most of them are true professionals. The crews, inspite of management,make the operation continue. Can they do it forever? No, that's the sad part. As soon as something happens, you will see AAI get dropped by all the companies that have contracts with. That will be the death knell for AAI. The victims will be the very people who made it work for so long.
Maintenance: In general, not too bad. Normally there aren't too many DMI (MEL items) running around. However, there is an extrodinary amount of repeat writeups. The original writeup really never gets fixed the first time. Cabin items will almost never get fixed. The IFE system on the pax a/c is a good example or the APUs on ATX/ATZ or the keel beam on ARG!
FFF Pilots: They get a much better "deal". 3 weeks on 3 weeks off. Good for them. It's an Icelandic company and they should look out for the home team. However, not at the expense of everyone else. I remember having a discussion with the head of crew scheduling, Asgeir about some type of scheduling for the contract pilots. We talked about something along the lines of 20days on and 10 days off. He agreeded it could be done and it would be more fair than the current system. However, that was really too much work for the schedulers to do. The current system worked fine.
Duty Day: I guess the 767 must be different than the 747. For any Hajj flights, especially out of Africa, you will be over any interpretation of the duty limits. There is no different way of reading it at all. But, if you raise the issue, you will be sent home and never called back. There are other examples of this too, any troop movements in and out of KWI you would be out of duty day before you even left the ground. The planned ground time was 1+00. Not too good. So, crews were always placed in a very difficult position. The tail strike in 2002 is another example of how crews are asked implicitly to bust duty limits.
Is AAI for everyone? No. If you want a life other than AAI, then it's not for you.
On dograt's comments: He's right to a certain degree. The reason they haven't had any problems is not because of management; it's because of the crews. Most of them are true professionals. The crews, inspite of management,make the operation continue. Can they do it forever? No, that's the sad part. As soon as something happens, you will see AAI get dropped by all the companies that have contracts with. That will be the death knell for AAI. The victims will be the very people who made it work for so long.
Last edited by Phil Squares; 16th Mar 2004 at 09:59.
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Breaking the rules
Dograt
I could not agree with you more, and the latest and probably the wildest thing to come from this crasyest of outfits is that the new owner wants to hire and train russian and other east european pilots for a grand salary of 1500 usd per month.
I could not agree with you more, and the latest and probably the wildest thing to come from this crasyest of outfits is that the new owner wants to hire and train russian and other east european pilots for a grand salary of 1500 usd per month.
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From an observer.
See AAI have been doing a lot of recruiting and training of F/Os of late.
What are the chances of a contract B747-200 F/O being upgraded to a command? Baring in mind there are some experinced people being trained.
If so, is seniority is a consideration?
See AAI have been doing a lot of recruiting and training of F/Os of late.
What are the chances of a contract B747-200 F/O being upgraded to a command? Baring in mind there are some experinced people being trained.
If so, is seniority is a consideration?
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Dograt (Wassup)
Firstly, if AAI are that bad, why on earth don't the CAA close them down, or at least suspend them? They must be doing the bear minimum to prevent grounding by the authority. Secondly, do you not think that because they havn't lost a hull, that maybe their standard of operation is sufficient in some way?
They may not be perfect, and things can alsways be done better (in someone else's eyes) but if the miniumum standard is there, then what next?
FYI, I do not work for them
Firstly, if AAI are that bad, why on earth don't the CAA close them down, or at least suspend them? They must be doing the bear minimum to prevent grounding by the authority. Secondly, do you not think that because they havn't lost a hull, that maybe their standard of operation is sufficient in some way?
They may not be perfect, and things can alsways be done better (in someone else's eyes) but if the miniumum standard is there, then what next?
FYI, I do not work for them
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global707
I guess you can call it luck!!!! Meeting minimum standard has nothing to do with it.
Firstly, if AAI are that bad, why on earth don't the CAA close them down, or at least suspend them? They must be doing the bear minimum to prevent grounding by the authority. Secondly, do you not think that because they havn't lost a hull, that maybe their standard of operation is sufficient in some way?
