News of the Pilot JOb Market in the USA - Read Here
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News of the Pilot JOb Market in the USA - Read Here
Here is a thorough story on the commercial piloting job market in the USA at this LINK HERE .
It is not a pretty story, sorry to say. Is it getting better? Well, see the note that American Airlines will furlough over 200 more pilots in a couple of months.
Sorry to be the one that posts up this not-so-positive news. But at least now y'all have some insight into the USA job market. Hang in there folks, it simply has to get better someday.
It is not a pretty story, sorry to say. Is it getting better? Well, see the note that American Airlines will furlough over 200 more pilots in a couple of months.
Sorry to be the one that posts up this not-so-positive news. But at least now y'all have some insight into the USA job market. Hang in there folks, it simply has to get better someday.
I've only made a few posts so I don't feel the need to order a Personal Title and help support PPRuNe
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For those who can't get in:
The bit that sums so much up but most of those outside of the business don't understand is:
Furloughed pilots waiting in the wings
Pilots retrench, find other jobs or just wait
11:55 AM CST on Saturday, January 17, 2004
By ANURADHA RAGHUNATHAN / The Dallas Morning News
As Tim Scherer walks from room to room with his yellow measuring tape, there are no traces of his old job in his new life.
He's measuring windows at a home in Highland Park, marking sizes and pulling out wooden shutters for display. Then he makes his pitch to the client: "We'll literally color-match anything in the world. We can make it look like anything you want."
Installing window shutters "is completely different from flying airplanes – which is my first love," said Mr. Scherer, a 34-year-old Delta Air Lines pilot from Arlington who was furloughed almost two years ago. "Not a day goes by when I don't miss flying."
He particularly misses the views from the cockpit window when he would fly through the cloud banks at sunset.
Now his construction business pays the bills.
Mr. Scherer is one of 11,000 pilots nationwide in furlough limbo. Many face years before they're recalled to the jobs they love and the salaries they became accustomed to. They're finding other ways to put food on the table, from selling real estate to taxidermy.
Brian Nastovski, 36, is a furloughed American Airlines pilot in Orlando, Fla. What had been a hobby became a profession when he lost his job.
Mr. Nastovski stuffed and mounted animal skins for customers who wanted trophies from their hunting trips.
"I couldn't get a job anywhere, and I decided, 'Let me try something that I know I'm good at,' " he said.
Mr. Scherer's job draws on construction skills that he learned on his father's farm. His Texas Deck and Woodworks does general construction. He earns 40 percent of what he made at Delta.
"My main goal has been to survive and hold on – without ruining my credit and ruining my family," said Mr. Scherer, who has a 2-year-old son and is going through a divorce.
He keeps his love of flying alive by renting single-engine airplanes at a local airport.
9-11 and more
In the summer of 2001, airline pilots were upbeat. Pilots at United Airlines Inc. had renegotiated a lucrative contract the year before, topped by Delta Air Lines Inc.'s contract in the spring. Pilots at Fort Worth-based American Airlines Inc. were preparing to negotiate a contract that was amendable on Aug. 31.
Then, on Sept. 11, terrorists hijacked and deliberately crashed two American and two United jets, killing thousands of people. The nation's air transportation system was shut down for three days. When the skies reopened, demand for flights had plummeted, and furloughs began immediately.
The industry suffered further blows from the economic downturn, war in Iraq and fears of sudden acute respiratory syndrome. In 2002, United filed for bankruptcy protection, and American nearly did last year.
Many airline employees lost their jobs besides pilots, of course – flight attendants, baggage handlers, ticket agents. The Association of Flight Attendants estimates that nearly 20,000 of the nation's 100,000 flight attendants have been furloughed since 9-11.
Both pilots and flight attendants work under a strict seniority system that determines who is furloughed.
If a pilot with 15 years' experience moves to another airline, he starts at the bottom of the ladder. Many choose to wait in the wings until their own airlines recall them.
"You could have 600 years of experience – you start all over," said Ed Stewart, a spokesman for Dallas-based Southwest Airlines Co., which is still hiring. "Even if we hire astronauts, they start at ground zero. There are only three things that matter at an airline: seniority; seniority and seniority."
Turning point?
There are other aviation jobs, of course – such as teaching at a flight school or flying for a charter company.
"There are jobs for everyone, but they're well below their previous station," said Kit Darby, president of AIR Inc., an Atlanta-based company that specializes in pilot career consulting. "A lot of new pilots made good money for the first time, and if they've gotten big homes and a new car, they're in a bad position. There are a lot of gut-wrenching decisions."
The bloodletting hasn't ended. American said it plans to furlough 223 more pilots in March.
"We're hoping that March will signal the end of the furloughs," said Mark Hettermann, vice president of flight operations at American Airlines. But "it's completely determined by the economy. It's impossible to forecast."
The airline industry has gone through one of the worst periods in its history, losing nearly $8.2 billion in 2001 and $11.2 billion in 2002, according to the Air Transport Association of America. In 2003, the industry is projected to have lost $5 billion. American is expected to post a loss for the year when it announces earnings this week.
"We've had three years of no growth in an industry that's used to tremendous growth every year," said Adam Pilarski, senior vice president at Avitas Inc., an aviation consulting firm in Virginia. "We've never had such a decline in demand."
Things are taking a slight turn for the better. But for pilots, the recall process is expected to be slow.
When furloughs hit, those lowest on the seniority list are the first to go, according to a formula settled on by union members. When the airline is ready to hire, it must tap the furlough list, and pilots with seniority are hired first.
There's no way to advance up the list quickly – they must wait for more senior pilots to retire.
Lots of questions
It's against this backdrop that furloughed pilots are trying to make sense of their lives, careers and finances.
They ask themselves: Should I wait two or three years for a possible recall and protect my seniority? Should I take a lower-paying pilot's position? Meanwhile, how do I make cuts in my lifestyle now that my salary has been cut in half?
Pilots often don't get a lot of sympathy because they're perceived as overpaid and under-worked. In the first year or so, they make $28,000 to $35,000. It's only at the peak of their careers that salaries climb to nearly $200,000. Many pilots try as hard as they can to stay with the same airline so that they hit those peak salaries. And even though salaries have been renegotiated in recent times, the field still offers a good living.
Pilots say their hours attract even more jeers than their salaries. They work 80 hours a month on average, not counting time spent preparing for a flight or in between flights.
"People think we're overpaid crybabies," said Mr. Scherer. "They think we make a lot of money and sit at home all the time. What they don't see is that we miss birthdays. We miss Christmases. We miss holidays."
And now is the time for a few more compromises if they want to stay in piloting.
Donna Miller, 43, is a furloughed American pilot in Denver. She's flying with a small charter company. Her pay has dropped from $35,000 at American to $20,000 at the new company.
She was furloughed in October 2001. One of the lowest on the seniority list, she said she plans to hang in there until American calls her back.
"A good thing for me is that nobody is counting on my income," said Ms. Miller, who's single.
Chris Rosser, 39, who was furloughed from American in February 2002, has been juggling two jobs – as a construction worker and as a full-time lead guitarist in a St. Louis rock band called Brittle Jim.
"I am convinced I am going to be recalled," said Mr. Rosser, who's let his hair grow a bit longer. "In the meantime, I am going to have some fun."
The age factor
Age is also a factor because pilots can work only until they're 60.
Pilots in their 30s tend to say they can afford to wait to get back to what they love doing, while those in their 40s are more worried about securing a retirement income.
Piloting "is just not a viable career for me," said Mitch Ballard, 44, who was furloughed from American last June. "If I was 30 years old, I'd have a lot of years to wait for the industry to sort itself out. But I'll always be a junior guy at American."
Mr. Ballard is looking to enter pharmaceutical and medical sales.
Matt Buckley, 35, one of the first furloughs, has moved on.
"I've absolutely no expectation of going back to American," Mr. Buckley said.
He and his wife sell real estate at Keller Williams Realty in Southlake. He also works for the Navy Reserves and models for TV ads in his spare time.
"We have 2,500 guys on the streets, and even if American starts a recall right now, I am 2 years to three years out," he said. "I am looking at a little more stability than that."
Dream on hold
For many of the pilots, though, a new career is out of the question. They can't give up the view from the cockpit.
Brad White, 30, who lost his job at American last May, was called for active duty in the military. When he was laid off, he decided to wait for a recall and retain his seniority.
He'd paid his dues at American – two years moving from airline base to airline base, working holidays and weekends, and flying small aircraft.
"At the major airlines, you're hired as a future captain," he said. "You stay as long as you fly."
Mr. Nastovski, the taxidermist, has put down the needle and thread. He landed a job recently flying with JetBlue Airways.
Mr. Scherer figures he may have to wait two or more years to get recalled. In the meantime, he has wooden shutters, alabaster and cream window frames, and his measuring tape.
"Eventually I'll get recalled. I don't really know when. I've given up guessing. But I'll never give up on the dream of flying. If it takes 10 years, it takes 10 years."
E-mail [email protected]
Pilots retrench, find other jobs or just wait
11:55 AM CST on Saturday, January 17, 2004
By ANURADHA RAGHUNATHAN / The Dallas Morning News
As Tim Scherer walks from room to room with his yellow measuring tape, there are no traces of his old job in his new life.
He's measuring windows at a home in Highland Park, marking sizes and pulling out wooden shutters for display. Then he makes his pitch to the client: "We'll literally color-match anything in the world. We can make it look like anything you want."
Installing window shutters "is completely different from flying airplanes – which is my first love," said Mr. Scherer, a 34-year-old Delta Air Lines pilot from Arlington who was furloughed almost two years ago. "Not a day goes by when I don't miss flying."
He particularly misses the views from the cockpit window when he would fly through the cloud banks at sunset.
Now his construction business pays the bills.
Mr. Scherer is one of 11,000 pilots nationwide in furlough limbo. Many face years before they're recalled to the jobs they love and the salaries they became accustomed to. They're finding other ways to put food on the table, from selling real estate to taxidermy.
Brian Nastovski, 36, is a furloughed American Airlines pilot in Orlando, Fla. What had been a hobby became a profession when he lost his job.
Mr. Nastovski stuffed and mounted animal skins for customers who wanted trophies from their hunting trips.
"I couldn't get a job anywhere, and I decided, 'Let me try something that I know I'm good at,' " he said.
Mr. Scherer's job draws on construction skills that he learned on his father's farm. His Texas Deck and Woodworks does general construction. He earns 40 percent of what he made at Delta.
"My main goal has been to survive and hold on – without ruining my credit and ruining my family," said Mr. Scherer, who has a 2-year-old son and is going through a divorce.
He keeps his love of flying alive by renting single-engine airplanes at a local airport.
9-11 and more
In the summer of 2001, airline pilots were upbeat. Pilots at United Airlines Inc. had renegotiated a lucrative contract the year before, topped by Delta Air Lines Inc.'s contract in the spring. Pilots at Fort Worth-based American Airlines Inc. were preparing to negotiate a contract that was amendable on Aug. 31.
Then, on Sept. 11, terrorists hijacked and deliberately crashed two American and two United jets, killing thousands of people. The nation's air transportation system was shut down for three days. When the skies reopened, demand for flights had plummeted, and furloughs began immediately.
The industry suffered further blows from the economic downturn, war in Iraq and fears of sudden acute respiratory syndrome. In 2002, United filed for bankruptcy protection, and American nearly did last year.
Many airline employees lost their jobs besides pilots, of course – flight attendants, baggage handlers, ticket agents. The Association of Flight Attendants estimates that nearly 20,000 of the nation's 100,000 flight attendants have been furloughed since 9-11.
Both pilots and flight attendants work under a strict seniority system that determines who is furloughed.
If a pilot with 15 years' experience moves to another airline, he starts at the bottom of the ladder. Many choose to wait in the wings until their own airlines recall them.
"You could have 600 years of experience – you start all over," said Ed Stewart, a spokesman for Dallas-based Southwest Airlines Co., which is still hiring. "Even if we hire astronauts, they start at ground zero. There are only three things that matter at an airline: seniority; seniority and seniority."
Turning point?
There are other aviation jobs, of course – such as teaching at a flight school or flying for a charter company.
"There are jobs for everyone, but they're well below their previous station," said Kit Darby, president of AIR Inc., an Atlanta-based company that specializes in pilot career consulting. "A lot of new pilots made good money for the first time, and if they've gotten big homes and a new car, they're in a bad position. There are a lot of gut-wrenching decisions."
The bloodletting hasn't ended. American said it plans to furlough 223 more pilots in March.
"We're hoping that March will signal the end of the furloughs," said Mark Hettermann, vice president of flight operations at American Airlines. But "it's completely determined by the economy. It's impossible to forecast."
The airline industry has gone through one of the worst periods in its history, losing nearly $8.2 billion in 2001 and $11.2 billion in 2002, according to the Air Transport Association of America. In 2003, the industry is projected to have lost $5 billion. American is expected to post a loss for the year when it announces earnings this week.
"We've had three years of no growth in an industry that's used to tremendous growth every year," said Adam Pilarski, senior vice president at Avitas Inc., an aviation consulting firm in Virginia. "We've never had such a decline in demand."
Things are taking a slight turn for the better. But for pilots, the recall process is expected to be slow.
When furloughs hit, those lowest on the seniority list are the first to go, according to a formula settled on by union members. When the airline is ready to hire, it must tap the furlough list, and pilots with seniority are hired first.
There's no way to advance up the list quickly – they must wait for more senior pilots to retire.
Lots of questions
It's against this backdrop that furloughed pilots are trying to make sense of their lives, careers and finances.
They ask themselves: Should I wait two or three years for a possible recall and protect my seniority? Should I take a lower-paying pilot's position? Meanwhile, how do I make cuts in my lifestyle now that my salary has been cut in half?
Pilots often don't get a lot of sympathy because they're perceived as overpaid and under-worked. In the first year or so, they make $28,000 to $35,000. It's only at the peak of their careers that salaries climb to nearly $200,000. Many pilots try as hard as they can to stay with the same airline so that they hit those peak salaries. And even though salaries have been renegotiated in recent times, the field still offers a good living.
Pilots say their hours attract even more jeers than their salaries. They work 80 hours a month on average, not counting time spent preparing for a flight or in between flights.
"People think we're overpaid crybabies," said Mr. Scherer. "They think we make a lot of money and sit at home all the time. What they don't see is that we miss birthdays. We miss Christmases. We miss holidays."
And now is the time for a few more compromises if they want to stay in piloting.
Donna Miller, 43, is a furloughed American pilot in Denver. She's flying with a small charter company. Her pay has dropped from $35,000 at American to $20,000 at the new company.
She was furloughed in October 2001. One of the lowest on the seniority list, she said she plans to hang in there until American calls her back.
"A good thing for me is that nobody is counting on my income," said Ms. Miller, who's single.
Chris Rosser, 39, who was furloughed from American in February 2002, has been juggling two jobs – as a construction worker and as a full-time lead guitarist in a St. Louis rock band called Brittle Jim.
"I am convinced I am going to be recalled," said Mr. Rosser, who's let his hair grow a bit longer. "In the meantime, I am going to have some fun."
The age factor
Age is also a factor because pilots can work only until they're 60.
Pilots in their 30s tend to say they can afford to wait to get back to what they love doing, while those in their 40s are more worried about securing a retirement income.
Piloting "is just not a viable career for me," said Mitch Ballard, 44, who was furloughed from American last June. "If I was 30 years old, I'd have a lot of years to wait for the industry to sort itself out. But I'll always be a junior guy at American."
Mr. Ballard is looking to enter pharmaceutical and medical sales.
Matt Buckley, 35, one of the first furloughs, has moved on.
"I've absolutely no expectation of going back to American," Mr. Buckley said.
He and his wife sell real estate at Keller Williams Realty in Southlake. He also works for the Navy Reserves and models for TV ads in his spare time.
"We have 2,500 guys on the streets, and even if American starts a recall right now, I am 2 years to three years out," he said. "I am looking at a little more stability than that."
Dream on hold
For many of the pilots, though, a new career is out of the question. They can't give up the view from the cockpit.
Brad White, 30, who lost his job at American last May, was called for active duty in the military. When he was laid off, he decided to wait for a recall and retain his seniority.
He'd paid his dues at American – two years moving from airline base to airline base, working holidays and weekends, and flying small aircraft.
"At the major airlines, you're hired as a future captain," he said. "You stay as long as you fly."
Mr. Nastovski, the taxidermist, has put down the needle and thread. He landed a job recently flying with JetBlue Airways.
Mr. Scherer figures he may have to wait two or more years to get recalled. In the meantime, he has wooden shutters, alabaster and cream window frames, and his measuring tape.
"Eventually I'll get recalled. I don't really know when. I've given up guessing. But I'll never give up on the dream of flying. If it takes 10 years, it takes 10 years."
E-mail [email protected]
Pilots often don't get a lot of sympathy because they're perceived as overpaid and under-worked. In the first year or so, they make $28,000 to $35,000. It's only at the peak of their careers that salaries climb to nearly $200,000. Many pilots try as hard as they can to stay with the same airline so that they hit those peak salaries. And even though salaries have been renegotiated in recent times, the field still offers a good living.
Pilots say their hours attract even more jeers than their salaries. They work 80 hours a month on average, not counting time spent preparing for a flight or in between flights.
"People think we're overpaid crybabies," said Mr. Scherer. "They think we make a lot of money and sit at home all the time. What they don't see is that we miss birthdays. We miss Christmases. We miss holidays."
Pilots say their hours attract even more jeers than their salaries. They work 80 hours a month on average, not counting time spent preparing for a flight or in between flights.
"People think we're overpaid crybabies," said Mr. Scherer. "They think we make a lot of money and sit at home all the time. What they don't see is that we miss birthdays. We miss Christmases. We miss holidays."
Trash du Blanc
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Another sad irony is that the ones furloughed first (like the female above) can get other flying jobs, while the more senior pilots furloughed later find that all the lesser flying jobs are filled.
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Future JetBlue Blues...?
Wonder if Mr. Nastovski, the taxidermist, the furloughed AA pilot who accepted employment with JetBlue...was he allowed to retain his AA seniority number? If not, and if he were in line to be recalled at AA soon, then he likely won't be a happy camper at JetBlue anymore. 
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Sad but True
It ain't just the furloughed guys/gals that have it bad. What about those whose companies have gone bust? The ones who are laid off/redundant, period. Their airlines no longer exist. They have NO recall trights and usually no jobs. They have nothing to look forward to. And they too, are in competition with the 11,000 still on the streets going for the few jobs that remain.
It is a sad fact that not even the 9/11 terroists could imagine the effect on the US airline industry they would have. It was not only United and American that suffered. There's plenty others that you don't hear about.
Having gone to some extraordinary lengths to get back, I am still pounding the pavements after more than a year and I am not alone. I used to fly B757s into JFK once upon a time and now I'm a professional resume writer!
No body "likes" bad news but it is cold reality that there are probably more pilots out-of-work in the US than the TOTAL pilot population of several EU countries combined and I'm talking about professional, type rated, experienced people. So for those thinking about career opportunities here - forget it, there aren't any!!!!
It is a sad fact that not even the 9/11 terroists could imagine the effect on the US airline industry they would have. It was not only United and American that suffered. There's plenty others that you don't hear about.
Having gone to some extraordinary lengths to get back, I am still pounding the pavements after more than a year and I am not alone. I used to fly B757s into JFK once upon a time and now I'm a professional resume writer!
No body "likes" bad news but it is cold reality that there are probably more pilots out-of-work in the US than the TOTAL pilot population of several EU countries combined and I'm talking about professional, type rated, experienced people. So for those thinking about career opportunities here - forget it, there aren't any!!!!
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Glueball:
When I last saw Brian Nastovski he was very happy to be employed by Jet Blue. When I talked to Brian and he had the following to say:
I did not give up my seniority nor are you asked to at JetBlue. You are given a paper to sign that is a no compete clause that says you will not return to your previous 121 employer for two years from your date of hire. That will be Evergreen.
Besides that I only have 125 people below me at AA out of 2400 furloughed. It will be so many years from now that I may be called back, that my employment with JetBlue will turn out to be a much more favorable place of employment than AA will be in the future for me.
When I last saw Brian Nastovski he was very happy to be employed by Jet Blue. When I talked to Brian and he had the following to say:
I did not give up my seniority nor are you asked to at JetBlue. You are given a paper to sign that is a no compete clause that says you will not return to your previous 121 employer for two years from your date of hire. That will be Evergreen.
Besides that I only have 125 people below me at AA out of 2400 furloughed. It will be so many years from now that I may be called back, that my employment with JetBlue will turn out to be a much more favorable place of employment than AA will be in the future for me.
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I think the spirit of the Jet Blue contract is that you won't skip off back to a US Domestic carrier within two years. Would you really want to bite the hand that has rescued you from a career of shoving cotton wool up a rabbit's ass? (I personally would rather bet my career at JB than AA anyway).
As Evergreen is a Taiwanese firm, I don't think they are a Part 121 carrier, unless they have an Ops Cert issued by the FAA and operate N reg aircraft based in the USA. As such, I suspect AA would be your previous Part 121 employer. However, this isn't the forst time I've been wrong... Good luck to you and to Jet Blue !!!!
As Evergreen is a Taiwanese firm, I don't think they are a Part 121 carrier, unless they have an Ops Cert issued by the FAA and operate N reg aircraft based in the USA. As such, I suspect AA would be your previous Part 121 employer. However, this isn't the forst time I've been wrong... Good luck to you and to Jet Blue !!!!
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Beagle,
That is Evergreen International Airlines in McMinnville, OR USA it is Part 121
Not EVA Airlines in Taiwan.
Take care as I am off to training. I hope all of you who are looking for avaition work find what you are looking for.
God Bless,
Brian
That is Evergreen International Airlines in McMinnville, OR USA it is Part 121
Not EVA Airlines in Taiwan.
Take care as I am off to training. I hope all of you who are looking for avaition work find what you are looking for.
God Bless,
Brian
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GOOD LUCK and GOD BLESS to you - Brian.
Now that you are a registered user on Pprune, please do stick around and let us know how it is going at JetBlue. As a pax, it is always nice for me to hear from those who sit on the "other side" of that door. Happy Flying ..........
Now that you are a registered user on Pprune, please do stick around and let us know how it is going at JetBlue. As a pax, it is always nice for me to hear from those who sit on the "other side" of that door. Happy Flying ..........
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What about good news in the USA?
Continental express(Coex) is hiring like mad at the moment..and Southwest is still recruiting..
A friend of mine who was hired by TWA/AA,declined a DC9 job because hed have to move to dallas from California..so here he is flight instructing instead..there are jobs on the other side
M.85
Continental express(Coex) is hiring like mad at the moment..and Southwest is still recruiting..
A friend of mine who was hired by TWA/AA,declined a DC9 job because hed have to move to dallas from California..so here he is flight instructing instead..there are jobs on the other side
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If people don't mind the move then there are jobs elsewhere besides the States also. On the other side of the Pacific, in Asia, China Airlines is hiring, so is EVA, JAL, Singapore, Korean etc. Europe is a tough break for Americans however. Different licenses, right to abode issues and so on...
I just got my first 121 job but prior to this I've been bouncing around the planet quite a bit from contract to contract. Never did flight instruct. Got nothing but turbine/ jet time. Made widebody command at 35 (1011).
It seems to work for a lot of Brits, Australians, Canadians etc. Their countries are a lot smaller (avaiton wise) and many of them ended up working overseas. I understand that family commitment is pretty tough but for the young guys, it's a great opportunity to see the world, decent paychecks and the best of all, FLY!
I just got my first 121 job but prior to this I've been bouncing around the planet quite a bit from contract to contract. Never did flight instruct. Got nothing but turbine/ jet time. Made widebody command at 35 (1011).
It seems to work for a lot of Brits, Australians, Canadians etc. Their countries are a lot smaller (avaiton wise) and many of them ended up working overseas. I understand that family commitment is pretty tough but for the young guys, it's a great opportunity to see the world, decent paychecks and the best of all, FLY!
Congratulations Brian.
Is Evergreen still flying DC-9s and DC-8s along with 747s?
How about daytime flying? An FO here worked at Atlas several years ago. Hope Evergreen's scheduling system allows pilots to be much more productive on the planned working days.
Is Evergreen still flying DC-9s and DC-8s along with 747s?
How about daytime flying? An FO here worked at Atlas several years ago. Hope Evergreen's scheduling system allows pilots to be much more productive on the planned working days.
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I.O.
Evergreen does still have all those fleet types. And they have recently furloughed a bunch of guys. Had a friend that was laid off from a now-defunct Part 121 operator @ end of 2002, went to Evergreen on the DC-9, there less than a year and now back on the streets again. It's a fine life........
Evergreen does still have all those fleet types. And they have recently furloughed a bunch of guys. Had a friend that was laid off from a now-defunct Part 121 operator @ end of 2002, went to Evergreen on the DC-9, there less than a year and now back on the streets again. It's a fine life........
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EIA
Hello all,
Yes I spent a considerable ammount at Evergreen. Most of the time is at night, due to it being a 24 International flying club. I flew mainly the 747 and a short period many years ago on the DC-9. DC-8's have been long gone for many years now.
I have heard that many are furloughed there because the military cut there flying and thats all they do now.
Well if you will all excuse me I have lots to do. I can say this that JB is awesome and the best company since 1985 I have been with including AA. I am here till the end.
I wish all furloughed that you find employment soon in aviation or whatever you may be pursuing. Till later ........... CIAO
Yes I spent a considerable ammount at Evergreen. Most of the time is at night, due to it being a 24 International flying club. I flew mainly the 747 and a short period many years ago on the DC-9. DC-8's have been long gone for many years now.
I have heard that many are furloughed there because the military cut there flying and thats all they do now.
Well if you will all excuse me I have lots to do. I can say this that JB is awesome and the best company since 1985 I have been with including AA. I am here till the end.
I wish all furloughed that you find employment soon in aviation or whatever you may be pursuing. Till later ........... CIAO
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Pompano Beach,FL- USA
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This is an interesting and accurate thread. Its gonna be a while before the US Majors do much hiring. I think United's last furlough was January and apparently American has one more.
In the past while at UAL, it took a 2 year minimum to furlough someone to break even. In other words, if you weren't going to have a 2 year furlough, they wouldn't waste time furloughing you. Things could change. Courts and grievance awards sometimes have an effect, but its gonna be a while in North America. USAir is the next critical issue and that would seal the fates of many unfortunately. It's not a pretty picture.
And a few of the posters are correct. There are jobs across the Pacific. I'm in one!
In the past while at UAL, it took a 2 year minimum to furlough someone to break even. In other words, if you weren't going to have a 2 year furlough, they wouldn't waste time furloughing you. Things could change. Courts and grievance awards sometimes have an effect, but its gonna be a while in North America. USAir is the next critical issue and that would seal the fates of many unfortunately. It's not a pretty picture.
And a few of the posters are correct. There are jobs across the Pacific. I'm in one!
