That's Ryanair/cae !!!
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No Reds
I dont agree with charging to look at CV,s but having seen some of the stuff that comes in the post I can see why Ryanair do in after all it will make sure that they only get applications that have a chance of a job.
Please dont just tar Ryanair with the 911 brush after all the beancounters in a number of airlines used it as an excuse to fire staff and to the best of my knowlage Ryanair did not fire anyone but Virgin , BMI, JMC and a number of others did.
The fact of the matter is that market forces are driving pilot recruting and they can only maintain this policy as long as there is an over supply of pilots in the market other airlines use more subtle ways of sifting aplications such as requiring overly high accademic qualifications or the old squadron tie.
Please dont just tar Ryanair with the 911 brush after all the beancounters in a number of airlines used it as an excuse to fire staff and to the best of my knowlage Ryanair did not fire anyone but Virgin , BMI, JMC and a number of others did.
The fact of the matter is that market forces are driving pilot recruting and they can only maintain this policy as long as there is an over supply of pilots in the market other airlines use more subtle ways of sifting aplications such as requiring overly high accademic qualifications or the old squadron tie.
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is this thread real???
take a look at yourselfs guys, some of you have got far too much EGO for your own good.
Pilots, Cabin Crew , Baggage loaders, dispatchers etc.... all very different jobs, all needed for the safe operation of an airliner!! Any good Captain would recognise this and being a good manager use his CRM skills to get the best out of his TEAM!!
Now thats the key word guys and gals , it takes a good TEAM to operate a flight well.
take a look at yourselfs guys, some of you have got far too much EGO for your own good.
Pilots, Cabin Crew , Baggage loaders, dispatchers etc.... all very different jobs, all needed for the safe operation of an airliner!! Any good Captain would recognise this and being a good manager use his CRM skills to get the best out of his TEAM!!
Now thats the key word guys and gals , it takes a good TEAM to operate a flight well.
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To get all fact clear. There is no cost to apply to any of the RYR training centres: GECAT, CAE and one in Sweden. Only if you apply direct they charge the 50 quid, if you do your homework you find that RYR gives all the CVs to the TRTO's so it is better to go direct to the TRTO's. 
Regarding the CC, if you are flipping burgers at the local burger joint or can work as CC I know what I would choose! Get close to the fire I would say and fly in the back!
Regarding the CC, if you are flipping burgers at the local burger joint or can work as CC I know what I would choose! Get close to the fire I would say and fly in the back!
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Ladies, Gentlemen
I am not cabin crew therefore I cannot speek with great authority on the training payment matter, but I can give you facts about this particular issue. Ryanair does not charge its cabin crew to do their training. A year or so ago a Spanish school (cabin crew) approached Ryanair and asked them to take on some of its graduates. (Apparantly in spain and in other countries in Europe the Licencing authority issues cabin crew licences and not the airline as in the UK) These boys and girls had decided to become cabin crew and payed for their course to this school because they wanted to go work for their national carriers. In order to receive their national licence they needed work experience and since no one was hiring in their country they found "evil" Ryanair who was willing to take them and pay them to work in a proffesion that they had chosen to do. CAE is an independent TRTO with its own marketing goals and ideas, and their desire to do these courses has nothing to do with Ryanair. If you feel it is worth it go for it, if you feel it is not then do not go for it. The targeting of pilots having applied on their website I am sure is their own marketing strategy
JP
On my previous post I forgot to mention issues regarding pilots training costs.
On the Ryanair website, it clearly states that if you are non rated then do not apply to Ryanair directly, but instead apply directly to the TRTOs. Ryanair does not receive any money from the TRTOs and they independently price their courses, therefore it costs one different amounts depending were they go. The cadet does not pay for his or her base training, nor do they pay for their line training as some one has mentioned before.
Three years ago the first cadets came from a dutch school and all of these guys had 200 hours total time. Today three years later they are earning around 3800 GBP net in the UK and around 4700 Euros in Euroland. I certainly did not have such an opportunity to go from a cessna to a B737-800 and to be guaranteed a job once the type rating was completed. A lot of us have not paid for our type ratings but we have paid in different ways, lower income our first years,years of unemplyoment, heart breaks when we did not get the first jet job we wanted, etc, etc. Just ask around the regional airlines F/os how much they earn and their prospects for command.
Some of these cadets will be Captains in 2 years from now earning 5000 GBP and with 4500 hours on a 737-800. Their world is their oister, unlike alot of other pilots... Ryanair is about partnerships, you take a risk you get rewarded, and most of all even during this horrible time in aviation Ryanair management has kept all of their promises regarding pay and working conditions.
Ryanair is not perfect but it sure does try to look out for its people (ie one of the cadets lost his licence during his probation period and he was kept on and paid and last I heard he is an SFI with us up in East Middlands). I know we do work hard but then I was not told any different when I joined...
I am not cabin crew therefore I cannot speek with great authority on the training payment matter, but I can give you facts about this particular issue. Ryanair does not charge its cabin crew to do their training. A year or so ago a Spanish school (cabin crew) approached Ryanair and asked them to take on some of its graduates. (Apparantly in spain and in other countries in Europe the Licencing authority issues cabin crew licences and not the airline as in the UK) These boys and girls had decided to become cabin crew and payed for their course to this school because they wanted to go work for their national carriers. In order to receive their national licence they needed work experience and since no one was hiring in their country they found "evil" Ryanair who was willing to take them and pay them to work in a proffesion that they had chosen to do. CAE is an independent TRTO with its own marketing goals and ideas, and their desire to do these courses has nothing to do with Ryanair. If you feel it is worth it go for it, if you feel it is not then do not go for it. The targeting of pilots having applied on their website I am sure is their own marketing strategy
JP
On my previous post I forgot to mention issues regarding pilots training costs.
On the Ryanair website, it clearly states that if you are non rated then do not apply to Ryanair directly, but instead apply directly to the TRTOs. Ryanair does not receive any money from the TRTOs and they independently price their courses, therefore it costs one different amounts depending were they go. The cadet does not pay for his or her base training, nor do they pay for their line training as some one has mentioned before.
Three years ago the first cadets came from a dutch school and all of these guys had 200 hours total time. Today three years later they are earning around 3800 GBP net in the UK and around 4700 Euros in Euroland. I certainly did not have such an opportunity to go from a cessna to a B737-800 and to be guaranteed a job once the type rating was completed. A lot of us have not paid for our type ratings but we have paid in different ways, lower income our first years,years of unemplyoment, heart breaks when we did not get the first jet job we wanted, etc, etc. Just ask around the regional airlines F/os how much they earn and their prospects for command.
Some of these cadets will be Captains in 2 years from now earning 5000 GBP and with 4500 hours on a 737-800. Their world is their oister, unlike alot of other pilots... Ryanair is about partnerships, you take a risk you get rewarded, and most of all even during this horrible time in aviation Ryanair management has kept all of their promises regarding pay and working conditions.
Ryanair is not perfect but it sure does try to look out for its people (ie one of the cadets lost his licence during his probation period and he was kept on and paid and last I heard he is an SFI with us up in East Middlands). I know we do work hard but then I was not told any different when I joined...
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Paying for CC training is the norm in Brazil, and perhaps in other Latin American countries - besides, a monthly salary of £1400 doing the job you love isn't bad, and compares favourably with other LCCs. I'd rather take out a loan and pay than work in an office.
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What type of working relationship do you think you will have with the pilots already employed at Ryan (as pilots) Do you expect to be treated as equals, considering should one of them draw the attention of management, he will be reminded that there are two Fatpls pushing trollies down the back who would be very willing to step into his shoes
Easy jet tried this many moons ago and it was not very successful for the guys involved (it would be interesting to know how many stayed with easy)
Having spoken to some Ryan jockeys on the matter they were all quite blunt- you will be treated with contempt!
Easy jet tried this many moons ago and it was not very successful for the guys involved (it would be interesting to know how many stayed with easy)
Having spoken to some Ryan jockeys on the matter they were all quite blunt- you will be treated with contempt!
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Contempt...???? Well excuse me but that would be quite innapropriate!! For those that it suits - well indeed go for it. I can hardly see where the need for contempt comes in. Strange reaction IMHO.
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Is it true that some cabin crew cry after their first training emergency jump??
Just kidding
Keep the thread alive it makes me laugh..
Ps :didn t get an interview as cabin crew with easy jet because i had not been face to face with clients for at least 6 months...
Maybe one of the flight crews should turn his seat 180deg to face its passengers in case he needs one day to serve them tea and coffee for a living....
Safe Flying,
M.85
Just kidding
Keep the thread alive it makes me laugh..
Ps :didn t get an interview as cabin crew with easy jet because i had not been face to face with clients for at least 6 months...
Maybe one of the flight crews should turn his seat 180deg to face its passengers in case he needs one day to serve them tea and coffee for a living....
Safe Flying,
M.85
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"should one of them draw the attention of management, he will be reminded that there are two Fatpls pushing trollies down the back who would be very willing to step into his shoes"
sadly were it not so. I agree in a perfect world it would not be an issue, but we do not live in a perfect world
sadly were it not so. I agree in a perfect world it would not be an issue, but we do not live in a perfect world
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My tuppenceworth;
In my company we have cabin crew who have gained pilots licences. None of them have ever been hired as pilots in this company (some made it elsewhere). I have nothing against them, good luck to them, but I sense a certain prejudice in our selection board.
A previous airline I worked for had a couple of wannabe pilots working in Flt. Ops (surely a better area for gaining suitable experience). These guys were finding it impossible to break into the piloting side (even when less experienced people were being hired) because they were so keen to please and subsequently so good at their desk job that the management realised they were the best workers they had, and couldn't do without them in that post. Literally they became indespensable as ground staff!
In my company we have cabin crew who have gained pilots licences. None of them have ever been hired as pilots in this company (some made it elsewhere). I have nothing against them, good luck to them, but I sense a certain prejudice in our selection board.
A previous airline I worked for had a couple of wannabe pilots working in Flt. Ops (surely a better area for gaining suitable experience). These guys were finding it impossible to break into the piloting side (even when less experienced people were being hired) because they were so keen to please and subsequently so good at their desk job that the management realised they were the best workers they had, and couldn't do without them in that post. Literally they became indespensable as ground staff!
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I work for an airline where I have seen engineers, f/as, rostering staff, ops staff, and several other areas- all hired as pilots, the only and notable exception being management.
This is merely an observation, draw whatever conclusions you wish.
This is merely an observation, draw whatever conclusions you wish.
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Forgive me, but this really strikes a nerve...
Well. Enough of that.
A while back the flight attendants at a particular airline were considering a strike. I mentioned to one of them, "why wouldn't the airline just run some replacements through training to cover the strikers and thus continue service? I mean, if you didn't serve drinks or meals during the strike, you could cut out that part of the FA training and actually shorten it, running replacements through in short order. How short would training be if you didn't learn how to pour coffee and serve meals?"
The answer: "Well, the full training is six weeks long, and if you cut out the part where we learn meal and beverage service, you could probably do it in five weeks and three days."
So, anyway, listen: knock that crap off. Agreed, you probably spent a small fortune getting to where you are, and I'm sure you're quite adequate in your job. However, you're either incredibly stupid or you have the driest sense of humor I've even encountered. Please, do you honestly believe what you've said? See, I'm thinking that when ****'s on fire you're going to save your own "overqualified" ass by going out a window, while those "tea and coffee servers" are trying to manage a situation going to hell.
Manchester 1985 comes to mind...
Versus...
Arrgh. 
Dave
Get real !!!!
The cabin crew job IS "below" the status of a pilot, as you put it...I didn't spend a royal fortune and many years getting experience to serve coffee and tea.
If your previous experience has helped you - Good for you, but don't give us that bullsh.t
It takes a long time to become an experienced pilot, it takes about two days to become a CA - Sorry buddy, that's a fact of life !!
I enjoy all my collegues in the cabin, but I wouldn't swap jobs - I'm overqualified !!
The cabin crew job IS "below" the status of a pilot, as you put it...I didn't spend a royal fortune and many years getting experience to serve coffee and tea.
If your previous experience has helped you - Good for you, but don't give us that bullsh.t
It takes a long time to become an experienced pilot, it takes about two days to become a CA - Sorry buddy, that's a fact of life !!
I enjoy all my collegues in the cabin, but I wouldn't swap jobs - I'm overqualified !!
A while back the flight attendants at a particular airline were considering a strike. I mentioned to one of them, "why wouldn't the airline just run some replacements through training to cover the strikers and thus continue service? I mean, if you didn't serve drinks or meals during the strike, you could cut out that part of the FA training and actually shorten it, running replacements through in short order. How short would training be if you didn't learn how to pour coffee and serve meals?"
The answer: "Well, the full training is six weeks long, and if you cut out the part where we learn meal and beverage service, you could probably do it in five weeks and three days."
So, anyway, listen: knock that crap off. Agreed, you probably spent a small fortune getting to where you are, and I'm sure you're quite adequate in your job. However, you're either incredibly stupid or you have the driest sense of humor I've even encountered. Please, do you honestly believe what you've said? See, I'm thinking that when ****'s on fire you're going to save your own "overqualified" ass by going out a window, while those "tea and coffee servers" are trying to manage a situation going to hell.
Manchester 1985 comes to mind...
Some items were actioned but the [flight deck] crew decided to evacuate via the right side sliding window as burning fuel flowed forward on the left of the aircraft. The operator's procedure required the flight deck crew to leave the aircraft promptly and supervise the evacuation from outside.
Such evidence that there was indicated that the No 2 and No 3 stewardesses carried out their duties to the best of their ability until they succumbed to the rapidly deteriorating conditions in the rear cabin.
Dave
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Dave,
It's a fact of life that due to career length the people at the front have a longer collective memory than those in the cabin.
Sadly your words are being read by those who clearly remember err, 'replacement workers' being trained and signed off with CAA approval in less than ten days. In fact the record is held by one senior and respected UK company at 4 days.
This isn't indicative of the respect pilots have for cabin crew but their managers and the controlling authority. These events happpened not just post Airtours at Manchester but long after Kegworth as well. When times get nasty you'd be amazed at the non existent respect their work is accorded by the deskbound.
No coughing, no apoplectic outbursts please - that's the truth of it otherwise there will be a flood of posts from senior airline people from both sides of the flight deck door clearly stating that I'm wrong.
But I don't think that will happen which in it's own way will reinforce where the real lack of respect for cabin crew lies.
Regards
Rob
It's a fact of life that due to career length the people at the front have a longer collective memory than those in the cabin.
Sadly your words are being read by those who clearly remember err, 'replacement workers' being trained and signed off with CAA approval in less than ten days. In fact the record is held by one senior and respected UK company at 4 days.
This isn't indicative of the respect pilots have for cabin crew but their managers and the controlling authority. These events happpened not just post Airtours at Manchester but long after Kegworth as well. When times get nasty you'd be amazed at the non existent respect their work is accorded by the deskbound.
No coughing, no apoplectic outbursts please - that's the truth of it otherwise there will be a flood of posts from senior airline people from both sides of the flight deck door clearly stating that I'm wrong.
But I don't think that will happen which in it's own way will reinforce where the real lack of respect for cabin crew lies.
Regards
Rob
Last edited by PPRuNe Towers; 18th Dec 2003 at 17:22.
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Don't think anyone has a problem with working as cc. I know one or two people who moved down to the sharp end after working several years in the back with the passengers.
However what really gets me is the 'ok pay us 3000 pounds to get a cc qualification (whilst so many airlines are desperate for them as stated earlier). Then if they do want you as fc they'll ask for another 20000 ish', and yet still not guarentee you a job. No noone owes us anything if we only have an fatpl, except for maybe a little respect for the hard work we have put in to get this far which it seems CAE can't be bothered to do. What happens next. Do they start making you pay for the six monthly sim check??? Maybe i shouldn't have said that or management might institute that as policy. If it does happen i apologise to all you guys working for FR.
Like i said cc is just as important for flight safety as the pilots themselves, but i'm getting fed up of pay pay pay pay and then we'll think about giving you a job attitude. The selection is no longer based purely on skill but on finances as well. I say bring back the good old policy of 'bonding'. And i do think it is unfair to reply to someone's pilot application by not just saying no, or reapply in x months.
However what really gets me is the 'ok pay us 3000 pounds to get a cc qualification (whilst so many airlines are desperate for them as stated earlier). Then if they do want you as fc they'll ask for another 20000 ish', and yet still not guarentee you a job. No noone owes us anything if we only have an fatpl, except for maybe a little respect for the hard work we have put in to get this far which it seems CAE can't be bothered to do. What happens next. Do they start making you pay for the six monthly sim check??? Maybe i shouldn't have said that or management might institute that as policy. If it does happen i apologise to all you guys working for FR.
Like i said cc is just as important for flight safety as the pilots themselves, but i'm getting fed up of pay pay pay pay and then we'll think about giving you a job attitude. The selection is no longer based purely on skill but on finances as well. I say bring back the good old policy of 'bonding'. And i do think it is unfair to reply to someone's pilot application by not just saying no, or reapply in x months.