Senior F/O Qualifications
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,044
Likes: 0
From: UK
BdD
Thanks for a very good explanation... Reading it, I was going to ask which airline it was, but it became very apparent!
In "Big", the 3rd stripe is effectively tied to time on the company. An ATPL is required, but after 4 years, you should have one... Therefore the supporters of the "quick" 3rd stripe were only after the "status", which seems trivial to me... and I couldn't work out where you were coming from.
These elements sound barking:
<<Also, in my company, Senior F/Os are able to board the a/c without a Captain present. I have, on several occasions, been unable to board the a/c when the Captain's not been there because of this restriction, which has subsequently delayed the flight>>
<<I have been with the company for nearly 7 years now, and still wear 2 stripes>>
<<iii) Successful completion of a command assessment course>>
The general theme of the thread is that SFO is achieved when you would be eligible for << a command assessment course>>...
<<Additionally, and more importantly, 2-stripe F/Os are not allowed to land the a/c in full crosswind limits - they are restricted to 2/3rds of the full limits. This has caused several problems in the past when a Captain, who has just converted onto type, is then faced with landing in full crosswind limits at somewhere unpleasant (e.g. BHD) while the F/O, who has been on type for years, has to sit there and watch. Surely, you'd want the more experienced guy to be landing in such circumstances?? I know I would.>>
An interesting one... In "Big" you only stop being 2/3 limited once on the Command Course. Whilst I take your point about the "more experienced pilot" with a "new Captain", it makes it a difficult issue where a Captain is responsible for the aircraft??
Good luck with your endeavours!
NoD
Thanks for a very good explanation... Reading it, I was going to ask which airline it was, but it became very apparent!
In "Big", the 3rd stripe is effectively tied to time on the company. An ATPL is required, but after 4 years, you should have one... Therefore the supporters of the "quick" 3rd stripe were only after the "status", which seems trivial to me... and I couldn't work out where you were coming from.
These elements sound barking:
<<Also, in my company, Senior F/Os are able to board the a/c without a Captain present. I have, on several occasions, been unable to board the a/c when the Captain's not been there because of this restriction, which has subsequently delayed the flight>>
<<I have been with the company for nearly 7 years now, and still wear 2 stripes>>
<<iii) Successful completion of a command assessment course>>
The general theme of the thread is that SFO is achieved when you would be eligible for << a command assessment course>>...
<<Additionally, and more importantly, 2-stripe F/Os are not allowed to land the a/c in full crosswind limits - they are restricted to 2/3rds of the full limits. This has caused several problems in the past when a Captain, who has just converted onto type, is then faced with landing in full crosswind limits at somewhere unpleasant (e.g. BHD) while the F/O, who has been on type for years, has to sit there and watch. Surely, you'd want the more experienced guy to be landing in such circumstances?? I know I would.>>
An interesting one... In "Big" you only stop being 2/3 limited once on the Command Course. Whilst I take your point about the "more experienced pilot" with a "new Captain", it makes it a difficult issue where a Captain is responsible for the aircraft??
Good luck with your endeavours!
NoD
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
From: UK
When i was in MyTravel we had S/O (1 stripe), F/O (2 stripe) and SFO (3 stripe) The requirements for SFO were recently lowered to 3000hrs and 3 years in the company. This was because we had hardly any SFOs due to the fact that the hours and seniority required for SFO were higher than those required for a command! Limits are the same as F/O. Think they get an extra 2% upon reaching 4500hrs and 6years....if anyone stays that long.
Last edited by AFA; 31st October 2003 at 20:21.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 441
Likes: 1
From: UK
NigelonDraft, that third strip may seem trivial us, but because BA recruits so many cadet pilots, having 2 stripes will tend to "represent" less experience as that is what new starter(usually a cadet) wears.
Why not just let those that joined from other airlines or organisations, with several thousand hours of experience wear a third stripe. The status of the extra stripe represents flying experience well inexcess to the cadet entry. That is what stripes really represent - experience. Doesn't matter where it comes from, as long as it is relevant!
As it is a trivial matter, then just let it be done and keep everyone happy!
But I fear the cadet entry 2 stripers won't like it...!
Why not just let those that joined from other airlines or organisations, with several thousand hours of experience wear a third stripe. The status of the extra stripe represents flying experience well inexcess to the cadet entry. That is what stripes really represent - experience. Doesn't matter where it comes from, as long as it is relevant!
As it is a trivial matter, then just let it be done and keep everyone happy!
But I fear the cadet entry 2 stripers won't like it...!
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 981
Likes: 0
From: In a nice house
tailscrape, I've always had 3 stripes and had no where near 1500 hours when I joined the company.
FOs in Air 2000 have no limit on, for example, crosswind limits for FOs. It doesn't matter how much or little experience you have, in theory you could land in max x/wind. However, the Captain always has the final say.
FOs in Air 2000 have no limit on, for example, crosswind limits for FOs. It doesn't matter how much or little experience you have, in theory you could land in max x/wind. However, the Captain always has the final say.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,044
Likes: 0
From: UK
<<NigelonDraft, that third strip may seem trivial us, but because BA recruits so many cadet pilots, having 2 stripes will tend to "represent" less experience as that is what new starter(usually a cadet) wears.>>
I was more than happy to wear 2 stripes for 4 years... I really didn't give a monkey's... But it could be personal thing I suppose?
However, there are other things in BA that being a "Senior" Aircraft Officer (to quote!) gives you e.g. Staff Travel etc. Are you claiming superiority over the CEPs in this area? Or just getting everything confused?
<<The status of the extra stripe represents flying experience well inexcess to the cadet entry.>>
CEPs v Experienced DEPs are usually more easily identifable by their "youth" (or lack of it!)...
That said, I had heard from a Senior manager some year or so ago that the 3rd Stripe was coming in early, so something seemed to be happening... but hasn't?
NoD
I was more than happy to wear 2 stripes for 4 years... I really didn't give a monkey's... But it could be personal thing I suppose?
However, there are other things in BA that being a "Senior" Aircraft Officer (to quote!) gives you e.g. Staff Travel etc. Are you claiming superiority over the CEPs in this area? Or just getting everything confused?
<<The status of the extra stripe represents flying experience well inexcess to the cadet entry.>>
CEPs v Experienced DEPs are usually more easily identifable by their "youth" (or lack of it!)...
That said, I had heard from a Senior manager some year or so ago that the 3rd Stripe was coming in early, so something seemed to be happening... but hasn't?
NoD
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 135
Likes: 5
From: Canada
I had never heard of this 2 bar thing at all until I started reading this website. You're either a captain or an F/O. Of course where I live you likely won't even be getting a sniff of a airliner till you have at LEAST 3500-4000hrs and that is a bare minimum!! At the last place I flew the minimums for an F/O on a BE-10 was 1500hrs. Captains needed 3000hrs PIC to qualify. I guess with the lower minimums it makes sense to limit what the F/O's are able to do.
