Is swiss next?
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 320
Likes: 19
From: Arroyo
I've just learned today from somebody who normaly knows what he's talking about that Swiss EVP Human resources Kurt renggli asked the management to cut another 300 to 350 jobs until year's end, otherweise Swiss would be under budget in 2004.
The bad news: More people sacked. The good news: Swiss could survive.
About the 150 managers already planed to leave the company until the end of this year, the same person also said the Board of director (which met yesterday) refused to have so many sacked.
Comment of my deep throat: they were too many former Swissair people among them!
Good gracious… Looking at their past experience, that's no good for Swiss if they stay.
The bad news: More people sacked. The good news: Swiss could survive.
About the 150 managers already planed to leave the company until the end of this year, the same person also said the Board of director (which met yesterday) refused to have so many sacked.
Comment of my deep throat: they were too many former Swissair people among them!
Good gracious… Looking at their past experience, that's no good for Swiss if they stay.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 320
Likes: 19
From: Arroyo
November 6, 2003
The Swiss bourse said on Thursday it had reprimanded loss-making Swiss International Air Lines for selectively disclosing details of a major staff and fleet cut earlier this year before informing the broader public.
The SWX Swiss Exchange body said Swiss' move on February 25 to inform some business partners of the cuts during trading hours and ahead of a public announcement after the market close was a breach of listing rules, which prohibit potentially price-sensitive facts from being published during trading hours.
Swiss, fighting for survival amid a sharp downturn in the airline industry, decided in February to cut its fleet by 20 aircraft and cut about 700 jobs. The drastic cost cuts were sparked by a CHF980 million (USD$715.6 million) loss last year.
By the end of the year, Swiss will have chopped its workforce by almost 40 percent and trimmed its fleet and network by about a third. It expects to break even next year and to make an operating profit in 2005.
A bourse spokesman also confirmed that Swiss is being investigated for another potential breach of listing rules.
Swiss has said the case involves an interview with Chief Executive Andre Dose, who told Reuters on October 14 that Swiss was "in the process of concluding" a key credit facility and he was hopeful an announcement could be made soon.
His remarks prompted a sharp rise in Swiss' tightly held and highly volatile shares.
Swiss has said the translation of Dose's remarks, which he made in German, had been interpreted "very optimistically" but declined to comment further.
(Reuters)
My comment: The Swiss Exchange "reprimand" should not have much consequences for the staff, not for the management.
But it damages the image of the company further: once again, the management handled in a unprofessional way. It will not help to reshape trust and confidence.
The Swiss bourse said on Thursday it had reprimanded loss-making Swiss International Air Lines for selectively disclosing details of a major staff and fleet cut earlier this year before informing the broader public.
The SWX Swiss Exchange body said Swiss' move on February 25 to inform some business partners of the cuts during trading hours and ahead of a public announcement after the market close was a breach of listing rules, which prohibit potentially price-sensitive facts from being published during trading hours.
Swiss, fighting for survival amid a sharp downturn in the airline industry, decided in February to cut its fleet by 20 aircraft and cut about 700 jobs. The drastic cost cuts were sparked by a CHF980 million (USD$715.6 million) loss last year.
By the end of the year, Swiss will have chopped its workforce by almost 40 percent and trimmed its fleet and network by about a third. It expects to break even next year and to make an operating profit in 2005.
A bourse spokesman also confirmed that Swiss is being investigated for another potential breach of listing rules.
Swiss has said the case involves an interview with Chief Executive Andre Dose, who told Reuters on October 14 that Swiss was "in the process of concluding" a key credit facility and he was hopeful an announcement could be made soon.
His remarks prompted a sharp rise in Swiss' tightly held and highly volatile shares.
Swiss has said the translation of Dose's remarks, which he made in German, had been interpreted "very optimistically" but declined to comment further.
(Reuters)
My comment: The Swiss Exchange "reprimand" should not have much consequences for the staff, not for the management.
But it damages the image of the company further: once again, the management handled in a unprofessional way. It will not help to reshape trust and confidence.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
From: Horsham UK
The word from Jungle Jets is that SWISS want to postpone delivery of the four resheduled 170s they were due to get in 2004 to 'some time in the future' - they aren't worried by this because they can/have already place/placed the build slots with other customers. To be honest I don't think it's likely SWISS (So What It's Still Swissair) will live long enough to get the aircraft due in 2005... sad that....
BTW Jungle Jet data shows that the 170 has met performance predictions and I have to say I was pretty impressed with it when I flew one couple of weeks back..
BTW Jungle Jet data shows that the 170 has met performance predictions and I have to say I was pretty impressed with it when I flew one couple of weeks back..
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 320
Likes: 19
From: Arroyo
E-170s spef and performances might be OK but did not meet the criterias set by Swiss when it passed the order. It does not mean the the E-170 is a bad airplane. It simply gives Swiss a perfect excuse to rediscuss the deal for reasons which have nothing to do with spef and performances…
The bottom line remains that Swiss cannot afford them, not it could afford A318 (even less). Full stop.
The bottom line remains that Swiss cannot afford them, not it could afford A318 (even less). Full stop.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 320
Likes: 19
From: Arroyo
New troubles ahead
Three weeks ahead of the recruitement on a temporary basis (Dec 1st to End of March) of 60 to 90 pilots to fly Swiss Embraer E-145 and RJs while the others get new training and certif in Brussels, Swiss screwed the deal.
The Swiss Pilots Association told its members on Friday not to sign the contracts offered by PAS Aviation Associates. PAS stands for Phillip Ashley Smith, already involved in a case with Zimex.
On legal grounds, Swiss could not reemploy pilots recently fired on a temporary basis. A third party company was therefore required.
But the proposed PAS contract do not comply with the promisses held by Swiss. Temporary pilots should have got the same conditions as the others, except seniority. It's obviously not the case.
Further details coming up.
The Swiss Pilots Association told its members on Friday not to sign the contracts offered by PAS Aviation Associates. PAS stands for Phillip Ashley Smith, already involved in a case with Zimex.
On legal grounds, Swiss could not reemploy pilots recently fired on a temporary basis. A third party company was therefore required.
But the proposed PAS contract do not comply with the promisses held by Swiss. Temporary pilots should have got the same conditions as the others, except seniority. It's obviously not the case.
Further details coming up.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 320
Likes: 19
From: Arroyo
Obviously, the regional pilots are not the only ones to be unhappy with the Swiss management.
Aeropers (former Swissair Pilots) is now threatening Swiss of undertaking legal steps against the company if it does not reduce quickly the number of managers, directors, EVPs and other people burdening the overhead's costs…
Aeropers signed an agreement with Swiss, according to which the revisor KPMG provides Aeropers on a regular basis with a check upon management loans, bonuses, incentives and so on.
Aeropers feels that for the sake of the company's much needed turnaround, the management should sacrifice at least as much as the pilots did, i.e. a 7,2% pay decrease.
Lately, a list of 300 managers to be sacked has been rejected by the Board of Directors, arguing it was too many at one time. 150 would be enough, said the Board.
Aeropers (former Swissair Pilots) is now threatening Swiss of undertaking legal steps against the company if it does not reduce quickly the number of managers, directors, EVPs and other people burdening the overhead's costs…
Aeropers signed an agreement with Swiss, according to which the revisor KPMG provides Aeropers on a regular basis with a check upon management loans, bonuses, incentives and so on.
Aeropers feels that for the sake of the company's much needed turnaround, the management should sacrifice at least as much as the pilots did, i.e. a 7,2% pay decrease.
Lately, a list of 300 managers to be sacked has been rejected by the Board of Directors, arguing it was too many at one time. 150 would be enough, said the Board.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 320
Likes: 19
From: Arroyo
DosŽ said on Friday that the State (Confederation) should make an effort, like any other investor. I did not mention anymore a Letter-of-Comfort, nor the much awaited credit facility which relies on that State Garantee. Talking about money, he sounded quite nervous, even if he said there is enough to go on. He gave no figure, no deadline.
Talking about the pilots, he choosed to laugh, explaining that when they know he is on board, the landing is usually harder before negociations, softer after. ÇRight now, it's pretty hardČ he said. Aeropers made it clear: cut 240 heads in the management or elseÉ
The simple fact that Swiss is still paying so many directors, vice-directors, vice-president and Executive Vice-Presidents (more than 300 in total) for a fleet of 79 A/C (3,75 chiefs per A/C, or 1 for every 80 employee) make it one of the worst case in the industry.
Even worse if you consider that Swiss has already burned two billion Swiss Francs without undertaking a clean-up at that level. For those who went, Swiss hired consultants who cost up to three time more and who don't give a fÉ of the future of that airline. I also believe it's too late for a turnaround.
Talking about the pilots, he choosed to laugh, explaining that when they know he is on board, the landing is usually harder before negociations, softer after. ÇRight now, it's pretty hardČ he said. Aeropers made it clear: cut 240 heads in the management or elseÉ
The simple fact that Swiss is still paying so many directors, vice-directors, vice-president and Executive Vice-Presidents (more than 300 in total) for a fleet of 79 A/C (3,75 chiefs per A/C, or 1 for every 80 employee) make it one of the worst case in the industry.
Even worse if you consider that Swiss has already burned two billion Swiss Francs without undertaking a clean-up at that level. For those who went, Swiss hired consultants who cost up to three time more and who don't give a fÉ of the future of that airline. I also believe it's too late for a turnaround.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 311
Likes: 0
From: europe
Those are the lucky ones who managed to received reduntdant compansetion, unlucky one will be the last one when the pot is empty.Simple advise:bail out, try get much as possible when the pot is not empty.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 320
Likes: 19
From: Arroyo
Latest news from the frontline: the dead is still moving. Or shaking, so to say…
Saab's pilots based in Basel have just been asked by the management to confirm they would stay in Basel.
Saab's pilots based in Zurich have just been asked if they agree to be based in Basel.
Saab's pilots based in GVA and LUG have to move anyway: their crew bases are closed.
For the record, Swiss has over 100 Saab's pilots with 6 A/C of this sort remaining in service.
Now what the people forced to move to BSL are wondering about is: for how long? Should I sell my house, move the family, send the children to a new school, if I learn by the next STT that they are no Saabs anymore in the Swiss fleet? If I make a typ transition to Embraer or Avro, I'll have to move again to Zurich.
The net result of the operation is to encourage more pilots to leave the company.
That is how downsizing and restructuring works: make life impossible to them and people will leave without having to pay them a redundancy fee.
Saab's pilots based in Basel have just been asked by the management to confirm they would stay in Basel.
Saab's pilots based in Zurich have just been asked if they agree to be based in Basel.
Saab's pilots based in GVA and LUG have to move anyway: their crew bases are closed.
For the record, Swiss has over 100 Saab's pilots with 6 A/C of this sort remaining in service.
Now what the people forced to move to BSL are wondering about is: for how long? Should I sell my house, move the family, send the children to a new school, if I learn by the next STT that they are no Saabs anymore in the Swiss fleet? If I make a typ transition to Embraer or Avro, I'll have to move again to Zurich.
The net result of the operation is to encourage more pilots to leave the company.
That is how downsizing and restructuring works: make life impossible to them and people will leave without having to pay them a redundancy fee.
Last edited by ettore; 13th November 2003 at 08:17.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 311
Likes: 0
From: europe
That is too bad that management has got this low to play this sort of games to get rid of pilots.Why don`t they be honest and blunt to tell the truth. They will never ever see another pilot working for this management again.Hope we all learned a lesson.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 320
Likes: 19
From: Arroyo
Middlepath asked:
Because mismanagement can be treated as a legal offense. See SAirGroup.
Because failing is politically incorrect. See the huge amount of money tax payers were forced to pump into Swiss.
Because failing leads to political loses. See what happened to the conservative party FDP for its role in the Swissair fall at the latest parliamentary election.
Because managers, who are mostly men, believe that losing face is like losing penis.
Sadly, most employees will deny the reality as long as they can afford to, i.e. as long as they still have a job.
On their side, investors, share holders, leasing companies, aircraft builders (Airbus & Embraer) and further creditors all have the upmost interest in saving what is left of their financial commitments. Shutting down Swiss busines would result in a total loss, instead of keeping a little while it's still alive.
All in all, nobody has the slightest interest in pulling the trigger now. And everybody has the right to believe in miracles as long as the management will be clever enough to hide the damning financial truth, which is – once again – a desaster.
Why don`t they be honest and blunt to tell the truth ?
Because failing is politically incorrect. See the huge amount of money tax payers were forced to pump into Swiss.
Because failing leads to political loses. See what happened to the conservative party FDP for its role in the Swissair fall at the latest parliamentary election.
Because managers, who are mostly men, believe that losing face is like losing penis.
Sadly, most employees will deny the reality as long as they can afford to, i.e. as long as they still have a job.
On their side, investors, share holders, leasing companies, aircraft builders (Airbus & Embraer) and further creditors all have the upmost interest in saving what is left of their financial commitments. Shutting down Swiss busines would result in a total loss, instead of keeping a little while it's still alive.
All in all, nobody has the slightest interest in pulling the trigger now. And everybody has the right to believe in miracles as long as the management will be clever enough to hide the damning financial truth, which is – once again – a desaster.
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 269
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From: Embedded in a pocket of resistance
I did a quick translation with Google (I admit, I´m lazy! 
) so check your personal message!
The translation is pretty rough but you should be able to figure out the general idea of the article.
Here is more food for thought...
Rough translation for the non-German speakers: someone leaked a financial rapport to the Sunday press in which it is (allegedly) stated that Swiss has made a whopping 613 Million Swiss Frank loss so far this year. The stock price went into freefall.
According to CEO André Dosé, Swiss is still on course, so good luck Swiss(air)!
) so check your personal message! The translation is pretty rough but you should be able to figure out the general idea of the article.
Here is more food for thought...
Rough translation for the non-German speakers: someone leaked a financial rapport to the Sunday press in which it is (allegedly) stated that Swiss has made a whopping 613 Million Swiss Frank loss so far this year. The stock price went into freefall.
According to CEO André Dosé, Swiss is still on course, so good luck Swiss(air)!
