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Blue Wave
Although Marketing (bless 'em) and the usual 'Emperors New Clothes' brigade thought that this was wonderful, most of 'us' in the fleet thought that this was really quite a naff idea and would end up being a total annoyance to most regular Concorde passengers. The idea was that at Mach 1 a battery of blue lights would wash a single pulse from the rear to the front of the cabin. At Mach 2 you would get a double whammy blue light show to help ruin your concentration. Marilake I remember these 'improvements' to be embodied in 'project rocket' (as you say, pretty unreadable) but it would be interesting to look at the history of this thing. When it was first fitted in the mid to late 80s it proved itself to be total junk: Instead of using an off the shelf microprocessor design, Marilake Instruments decided to use a custom processor running from dedicated TTL/CMOS chips, it used a clumsy parallel instead of serial databus between the displays (stacks of extra wiring) ran red hot all the time (the toasty display units were surrounded by coats in the wardrobes to boot and also used a master/slave layout, where it the master (fwd right hand) display developed a fault you lost the whole shooting match. Just to put the cherry on the parfait, flight data had to be entered via a laughingly called 'hand held controller' that was fitted against the side of the C/B panel behind the captains seat. (This thing was so big that the supernumerary seat had to have restriction fitted to its fwd travel, to prevent the seat or occupier colliding with this monster). Now this thing, which was in reality a quite large LCD portable commercial computer terminal (it even ran BASIC!!), had to be initialised before every flight, and the crew had to input Baud Rates as well as all sorts of other bilge before the system would hopefully initialise. As often as not the system would lock up, and I'm quite sure that if this thing had not been tethered via a power and data cable, many a pilot or E/O would have tossed the thing out of the DV window!!. Reliability became so awful that eventually the whole system was disabled for about a year while Marilake were forced/coerced/threatened into a total system redesign. The final product, which ran nice and cool abandoned nearly all of the original hardware (no more master/slave arrangement either), utilised an ARINC 429 type databus and came equipped with new plasma displays which FINALLY worked rather well. The crap commercial computer terminal was replaced by a really neat data entry panel that was fitted on the left hand centre consul that worked pretty good from day 1. FINALLY the darned system worked. Best Regards Dude :O |
Barbara Harman
It is with great sadness that I have to tell you that Barbara passed away earlier this week.
Lovely lady, great pilot and always very supportive of her crew. Before the Spice Girls even thought of it, Barbara was the very essence of Girl Power! Rest In Peace, Barbara x |
That's terrible news - I'm downroute and hadn't heard.
Can only echo landlady's comments, Barbara was a lovely person. |
Bluewave.......
I'm with M2dude and the majority of those involved who thought this was an unbearably naff concept - the whole point of Concorde and the millions of man-hours of development was that Mach 1 was a non-event. To introduce this nonsense convinced most of us that the marketers had lost the plot regarding Concorde and its purpose.
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Originally Posted by EXWOK
(Post 6265887)
I'm with M2dude and the majority of those involved who thought this was an unbearably naff concept - the whole point of Concorde and the millions of man-hours of development was that Mach 1 was a non-event. To introduce this nonsense convinced most of us that the marketers had lost the plot regarding Concorde and its purpose.
Maybe the marketers should have done something about the protective screen of the displays.... I hate to think how many "once in a lifetime" photos were ruined by the reflection of a flash blanking out the display. I still have my photo at M2.03, but that was the simplistic Mach cabin display in a French Concorde.... .
Originally Posted by M2dude
The final product, which ran nice and cool abandoned nearly all of the original hardware (no more master/slave arrangement either), utilised an ARINC 429 type databus and came equipped with new plasma displays which FINALLY worked rather well. The crap commercial computer terminal was replaced by a really neat data entry panel that was fitted on the left hand centre consul that worked pretty good from day 1. FINALLY the darned system worked.
> "ARINC 429 type databus"... again I'll have to check, but I thought it was still the old RS-422 bus. I can't remember any ARINC 429 on Concorde.... but you were there much longer than me. I was slightly involved in an effort to bring a Marilake back to life, but we were baffled by the various comm protocols. The French Mach cabin displays were simple kludges, but they worked, and we've just got one back to life again.... CJ |
To be fair, I was talking about the 'bluewave' concept; I didn't think the Marilakes were out of place at all.
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Barbara Harmer
Barbara was a truly lovely lady and will be sorely missed by all of us that had the honour to know her. She was such an unassuming lady and seemed to wonder what all the fuss was when the media followed her around in her early days on the fleet.
With greatest respect M2Dude |
Barbara Harmer
Very sad news.
Barbara, you were a joy to know and to fly with. Rest in Peace, Bellerophon x |
Barbara Harmer
Very sad news indeed. An inspirational lady that I never had the pleasure to meet. Should you wish to pay your condolences >>
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BlueWave and Marilakes
Originally Posted by EXWOK
(Post 6266228)
To be fair, I was talking about the 'bluewave' concept; I didn't think the Marilakes were out of place at all.
CJ |
Not sure if this a repeat:
However there is a comment that suggest a flypast for the 2012 Olympics. I thought all were decommissioned so is this wishful thinking on the part of the commentator? Ozzy |
I really liked the 2nd generation cabin displays that are still fitted to the BA Concorde today. But the “Project Rocket” displays really looked unprofessional and you would of needed binoculars to see them from row 4!
The problem was that as you used the binoculars to view the Mach meter change to famous M200, you would have been blinded by this silly double blue lighting wave rushing through the aircraft, magnified by the binoculars. There is a page regarding "Project Rocket" at the link below, including video and pictures BA Concorde “Project Rocket” Heritage Concorde |
Originally Posted by Ozzy
(Post 6266807)
Not sure if this a repeat:
For some unfathomable reason, that moment when Concorde climbs away from the Red Arrows, at the end of the fly-past, always leaves me with a lump in my throat.... I don't know why.... However there is a comment that suggest a flypast for the 2012 Olympics. I thought all were decommissioned so is this wishful thinking on the part of the commentator? You will still find that wishful thinking among people who do not know any better.... Not only were they decommissioned, but neither are there any spares, or infrastructure, still in existence, to make such a pipedream possible. CJ |
For some unfathomable reason, that moment when Concorde climbs away from the Red Arrows, at the end of the fly-past, always leaves me with a lump in my throat.... I don't know why.... I was also told by an ex-Concorde pilot that they lost the 'yellow' system just as they pulled up from the Red Arrows formation and powered away! |
Shaggy Sheep Driver
...told by an ex-Concorde pilot that they lost the 'yellow' system just as they pulled up from the Red Arrows formation... I don't quite understand why the Yellow system would have been in use at that point - and thus how they came to notice they had lost it! I suppose the obvious inference is that they may have already experienced one of the several various problems or failures that caused Yellow system to auto-onload. Best Regards Bellerophon |
The Yellow is the standby system, but wouldn't it possible to 'lose' it even if it wasn't actually in use?
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John Blackman
Hi guys,
I have been asked by someone who knows John if anyone on here remembers him. Thanks, Landlady xzxx |
Shaggy Sheep Driver
The Yellow is the standby system, but wouldn't it possible to 'lose' it even if it wasn't actually in use? Best Regards Dude :O |
The blue wave looked impressive with the cabin lights off, crap and tacky with them on.
YouTube - Project Rocket Lights on a/c What would have been better was a new 787 style, LED lighting system on the aircraft, but that level of technology was not yet developed properly in 2000 |
The first thing I know EXWOK and BELLEROPHON will (maybe) notice is that originally OAD had a 'normal colour' electroluminescent light plate on the visor indication panel. (If I remember rightly (it was a million years ago chaps) when this one 'stopped lighting' we could not get a replacement and had to rob 202 (G-BBDG) at Filton; this one being the same black development aircraft colour that OAD has to this day. |
Project Rocket blue light wave
Concorde was a business tool, and I feel that the blue light wave would have been a mistake. Not the right thing for Concorde!
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I first saw this video a few months ago, which aircraft was it filmed on?
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gordonroxburgh
'Dg still has her original fitted. It was not the same indicator, simply a 5deg lock indicator and a switch (poss wiper park). I wonder where this one came from! The blue wave looked impressive with the cabin lights off, crap and tacky with them on. What would have been better was a new 787 style, LED lighting system on the aircraft, but that level of technology was not yet developed properly in 2000 steve-de-s I first saw this video a few months ago, which aircraft was it filmed on? Best Regards Dude :O |
That's the first time I've seen that blue lighting. There are many ways it could be described but I'd sum it up in just one word. Naff.
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Just looking at some old 202 pictures Gordon and by golly you are right. Could have sworn it was a 202 (DG) robbery but it obviously it was not. The plot thickens. (I do remember that we had a hell of a job getting hold of this electroluminescent panel for OAD, hence the memory). ....which aircraft was it filmed on? |
G-BOAD's EL panel replacement will just have to remain one of lifes little mysteries.
So the light show was filmed on 202 eh? They were trying out this bilge on the ground on OAB. (Never saw it myself, but that's what was being said in 2001/2002). Obviously the light show is a recent addition to the G-BBDG itinery. Thank goodness none of this nonsense found its way onto the operational fleet. And Coffin Dodger.. I think that you've summed up the general view.... naff indeed.:ok: Best Regards Dude :O |
Its not used on G-BBDG, we put the LED strips in along one side to see how Naff it looked......and yes....it was really crap!
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Ahhhhhh.. thanks Gordon. Glad you haven't really fitted that stuff to DG.. It is a magnificent exhibit as it stands; the restoration work done on that wonderful aircraft is nothing short of amazing.:D
Best Regards Dude :O |
I'm off to BGI on Sunday for a little hol, and this time I'm going to have a look round Connie at Grantley Adams. :cool:
Lots of memories and if I have too many rum punches before I go I'll no doubt be an emotional wreck! :{ I will give her a hug from you all xx :O LL |
For some unfathomable reason, that moment when Concorde climbs away from the Red Arrows, at the end of the fly-past, always leaves me with a lump in my throat.... Rhys. |
Does anyone have a HD/higher resolution version of the video posted on the previous page?
Many thanks. |
Further to skittles post - if anyone has links to HD footage of concorde at all, I'd love it see it. There are a couple of youtube videos:
YouTube - Concorde Final flight:HD Tranquility Base Razorfish ( Audio 320kb YouTube - Saving Concorde HD But it would be great to see nice HD footage of one of the ladies in flight. One question for the people who designed & worked with her - was there any sort of thrust vectoring - not for any directional controls of course, but perhaps to give extra lift to save drag on the wing when at mach2? Or is that a completely daft idea? Perhaps I'm not explaining what I mean well - what I mean is was the direction of the exhaust gases completely 100% unchanged, or were they directed slightly downwards to generate some lift? Clearly, I have no clue what I'm talking about :-) |
No thrust vectoring. The secondary nozzles did go to 'divergent' setting from 'convergent' for supercruise, but the thrust was always in the same direction (rearwards).
If the thrust had been angled downwards, it would simply have induced a nose-down pitching moment. Most undesireable! |
Just a note to say how excellent the Concorde lecture at RAeS on Tuesday was. Most informative and entertaining, and so good to meet so many Concorde folks again.
Very many thanks John and Roger! |
Would love to go to a lecture....pity I am 6000 miles away :-(
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(long time lurker and addict of this thread - about time I wrote something...!)
I totally agree Shaggy. Excellent evening covering some facinating material, presented in a way that even this BA aircraft loader could understand! :D Oh how I wish I'd joined the company a bit earlier when Concorde was still in the fleet! |
Another question...
In what order were the engines started (preprod manual says 3,4,2,1), and why ? CJ |
The engine starting sequence was also in airline operation 3-4-2-1. At the gate the altered sequence was 3-2 prior the pushback and 4-1 after due to safety reasons for ground crew and for noise restrictions at some airport stands.
Brit312 explained in post #140: Yes we always started just the two inboard engines prior to push back and the outers when the push back was complete. This was for a number of reasons, but I do seem to remember it was not unheard of to break the tow bar shear pin on the initial push, so the less power the better Remember that Concorde had no APU and no across the ship ducting for stating engines, therefore prior to push an air start unit was plugged into each pair of engines and the inboard engines would be started. This allowed, after push back, air from each inboard engine to be used to start it's outboard engine. The other good reason for starting the inboards prior to push was that with no APU the cabin temp would rise quite quickly [specially in places like Bahrain in summer] and never mind the passengers comfort, but some of M2dude and ChristiaanJ fancy electronic equipment was very temp sensitive , especially those intake control units down the rear galley. With Two engines running we could use their bleed air to at least try and hold the cabin air temp during the push back Well, I hope, this was not a stupid answer before I took a chance for a nonstupid question :uhoh: - but I am so exited about this thread and just want a little bit to give back! Thanks for the probably best thing ever I have found in the internet. Thank you M2dude, Brit312, ChristiaanJ, Exwok, Bellerophon, Landlady et al.! |
Quax .95,
Thanks! I vaguely remembered the subject had been raised before, but PPRuNe "Search" didn't help. CJ |
Quax .95
The trick was to get as many hydraulic systems online ASAP during engine start/pushback, and that's where the sequence was defined. Now my tired/worn out/time-expired brain recollects that number TWO engine was started first, this gave us GREEN and YELLOW systems, followed by number THREE engine, which now gave us BLUE system. Once these engines were successfully started the 2 air start trucks (oh for that darned APU) could be disconnected and preliminary system checks, including full and free flying controls, could be carried out. After push-back the outboard engines were started by using adjacent engine cross-bleed (as BRIT312 quite correctly stated years ago, there was no 'cross the ship' cross-bleed duct), the remaining system checks would be carried out. After this the tow-bar would be disconnected, the nose lowered to 5° and our Concorde would taxi away ready to leap up into the heavens; the place that she truly belonged. Best Regards Dude :O |
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