Yeah - "Hutch" helpfully points it out on the late '80s BBC Concorde Special (which I recently re-acquired - yay!).

Sorry SSD, but there ain't no waisting on the fuselage, although the area ruling in that area is quite good. Did you mean where the fuselage starts to taper?

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/...l1/Image44.jpg


Dude - I DID say the pressure was peculiarly sensitive to angle, but I didn't remember those additional corrections. Amazing what memories this thread throws up http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ies/thumbs.gif

That's picture is interesting.!!

I was wondering that by making more swept angle like in Concorde, is it gonna
help in area rule? Like cross section area gradually increase.
Also, IIRC the concorde body seems to get narrower as we go to it tail. Does
this design were suppose to help in Area rule?

Best regards

CliveL said "Sorry SSD, but there ain't no waisting on the fuselage, although the area ruling in that area is quite good. Did you mean where the fuselage starts to taper?"
--------------------------------------------------------

Nope. I meant the waisting of the fuselage where the fin starts. Stand on the steps by the front door where Dude's wife took that picture, and you'll see that the cabin roof is 'waisted in' noticably where the fin is mounted (not the sides of the fuselage which remain parallel - the roof, which is bowed inwards and downwards to reduce the fuselage cross section co-incident with the fin's extension above the fuselage). I see it several times a week on OAC.

You can see it on this picture too, though it's not as obvious as when you look back from the door.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...2resized-1.jpg

Mr Vortex - Yes, the gradual taper of the nose and of the tail help with area rule. As does the wing leading edge being brought as far forward as possible where it joins the fuselage, so the cross-sectional area increases as gradually as possible, nose to tail, at the wing root.

Reverse buckets
 

Hi,

I've been following this thread with great interest. I hope some of you silver haired Captains (yes, with a capital C) can answer a question that has been bugging my mind for the last few days.

After watching the ITVV Concorde video it is apparant that you check the Reversers and air shut off valve. How do you do this test and what are you looking for?
I've been trying to get it to work in the FLS ConcordeX , but so far without luck. The buckets move accordingly in the air and when selecting reverse. And they say it's simulated as well.

Thanks,

Martin

Landroger
Actually it was a great and moving experience Roger. All the people at the function were BA 'Concorde family', so the noise we made that evening was certainly sufficient. It sounds weird I know, but it was almost as if OAC was entering the spirit of the occasion. (And the aircraft was open for us to take photos, reminisce and quite honestly to help remind us all that something really wonderful was now missing from our lives). The aircraft is in such good general condition that she never really seems 'dead' at all
howiehowie93
Nothing missing here Howie. On the RIGHT HAND engines, ie. 2 & 4, Concorde had 2 hydraulic pumps, but on 1 & 3 engines there was only a single pump. What you can see is the spare gearbox provision for the extra YELLOW pump, right next to the IDG. (You can see the pipes coming from the GREEN hydraulic pump in the forward face of the gearbox, immediately forward of the 'blank').

Best regards
Dude :O

EXWOK
The OAF 'Mach 1 glitch' was pretty much from day 1, yonks before the nose job. All we were ever able to establish was that it was definately the ALTITUDE comparator tripping the red ADS master warning I established that one during a test flight. (At FL290 you needed around 350' comparison error between ADCs for at least 3 seconds in order to trip the warning). Trouble was the error was gone so quickly you never got very far. (And the AIDS/FDR system on OAF and OAG only took readings from #1ADC, and not both as was the case with the original 5 aircraft, so the FDR was not much help either).

ChristiaanJ
Not on the production aircraft my friend, there was now just a single raised fairing, offset to the left of the fuselage crown which houses both ADF sense antennas as well as the 2 compass flux valves. The smaller central fairing is the one housing the ADF Loop antennas.:ok:
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/...e/100_1283.jpg
This view from the top of the fin shows it all quite clearly.

Best regards
Dude :O

OK, I see where you are coming from. There is a change of line at the top of the fuselage, but this doesn't really constitute 'waisting' in my terms. I think of waisting as a local area increase followed by a reduction to fill in a bump in the area distribution. What you are seeing is the change in upper fuselage line where the extended rear fuselage fairs into the prototype fuselage line. This extension was introduced to stretch out the lifting length, but to keep enough ground clearance it had to be upswept, which gave rise to that upper surface kink.

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/...endcloseup.jpg

This one really shows it up Alpha Fox after last landing at Filton.

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/.../IMG_0228a.jpg">

Cheers

CL

Ah, the good old days! I submitted the following to 'Private Eye' when the Conc retired:

So, farewell then, Concorde
Supersonic Thunderjet
'Arrive before you leave'
That was your slogan
If only you could depart in 2003
And arrive thirty years earlier
Then you could start
All over again.

E J Thrubshaw (Mach 17½)

If anyone's interested, I've started a thread entitled 'LHR nostalgia' on the 'Aviation History and Nostalgia' forum.

Concorde Flights - which a/c did which ?
 

Thanks to all who have contributed to this wondrous thread. As one of the guides who work on Alpha Charlie at Manchester (with that Shaggy Sheep pperson), I have set myself a little task. We regularly get people who have travelled on Concorde on our tours who just want to refresh their memories but don't know which aircraft it was.
My "little" task is to document which a/c did which flight ? There were somewhere about 50,000 flights for the BA Concordes. I'm currently up to 14,353 thanks to Stephen at Home.
Does anyone have a source of other none Heathrow data ?
I've used an assumption that BA003 followed BA002 to bulk some of the data up.
The BA museum can't help.
PS If anyone wants a copy of the data so far it's in a spreadsheet format at the moment and I'll happily pass it on. Just ping me a message rather than post here.

Discorde

Wonderful stuff, and of course now E J Thribb himself has departed from the Eye for a retirement in France.

Did they ever print it, or acknowledge your suggestion?

Thanks for your reply Shaggy Sheep Driver,

I had read about the Compressor lift that cause by the intake shockwave on
XB-70. It help to improve the movement of CP and I think maybe L/D ratio.
I'm know that Concorde has this kind of behavior too (engine shutdown during M2.0) but did they intend to use the compressor lift method in Concorde?

Thanks for all reply.

Best regards

Reading this fascinating thread, I hesitate to add my worms eye view.
In 1969, as a young chap freshly out of school, I was given a temporary job at Filton in the printing shop attached to the Brabazon Hanger where the Concorde prototype was being assembled. Things were badly in arrears, so we were on compulsory and lucrative, overtime, working from 7am to 9pm. We had a small workshop containing about a dozen old duplicating machines for drawings and documentation. The foreman was also shop steward and I soon learned that he was in charge, when, after clocking in, I began preparing my machine with paper and ink. He informed me that nothing was to be done until he activated all the machines with his big mains power supply lever, and that was not done until we’d brewed up a leisurely cup of tea. In fact, the tea breaks were often and long, there was absolutely no sign of the urgency that prevailed in the rest of the factory.
Draughtsmen and engineers would leave their work in a hatch with a request for so many copies – sometimes with a note saying URGENT. This would invoke a snarling ‘cheeky bugger’ reaction as the unfortunate man's work was then shoved to the bottom of the pile. This treatment would eventually provoke a protesting manager to come through the door, which separated us from the Design Office. At this, down would go the power lever to the cry of ‘I smell management!’ More tea and lengthy negotiations before work limped on.
The job was of course boring, the printing machines had a variable speed control habitually set of course on the lowest stop, but I found the tedium could be eased by tweaking the many adjustable controls on the paper feed and cranking up the speed until the inevitable inky jam.
The result of my happy experimentation was that at the end of the day, I would have a pile of completed work about 3 feet high while my colleagues would have only about 3 inches. This led to an interview with my foreman in which he pointed out that while I was just a student mucking about, they all had families to support and I was in danger of causing the suspension of overtime. Furthermore, failure to see their point of view would lead to another meeting behind the bike sheds after work.
I am filled with wonder that Concorde was completed at all knowing that the massive dedication of so many was constantly undermined – indeed sabotaged by the bloody-minded working practices of those dinosaurs – now replaced by the print button on every computer.
Sorry, long post.

Hello

I got questions about Concorde, perhaps it's a bit tricky but anyway, let's try...

An acquaintance of mine, former french military (Navy) told me about a rumor concerning the french Concorde :
"At the time of IOC or FOC of the ASMP missile (*), cabling work would have been made on one or several Air France Concorde... just in case."

- Does anyone heard it, and/or can confirm/deny it ? :cool:
- What about the other side of the Channel ? Did UK evaluate (or more) a military potential for BA's Concorde (bomber, reconnaissance platform...) ?

I am a little skeptical, because at the time mentioned (**), the high altitude strategic bomber was a bit out of fashion (the low altitude mission profile for the Mirage IVAs was introduced in 1966), and I cannot imagine a low altitude Concorde deemed efficient in any way. :=
And I'm glad that the Lady eventually retained her purely pacific role. :ok:

Thanks in advance,
AZR.

(*) the ASMP is the french nuclear air-to-ground missile.
(**) ASMP's date of commissioning is 1986.

I have seen an artist's impression from the '60s of a Concorde in RAF colours. As you say, by the time Concorde became available the high altitude bomber role had gone due to improvements in anti-aircraft missile performance.

Concorde would have been horredously inefficient at low level with a very short range, it isn't big enough to use as a military transport, so it's difficult to envisage a military role for it.

AZR,
Nice one... never heard that one before.
I think it's another urban legend...

Here's the "artist impression" that may have started the legend...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...blue_steel.jpg

Also, there was a James Bond film, where they'd hung a couple of cruise missiles under a Concorde, which did look a bit like ASMPs.

CJ

Great story Adverse Jaw, and there are threads on here pondering why the demise of British aircraft manufacturing.Law of unintended consequences?

Happy Days
 

I worked on the project for eighteen months in production design control at Brooklands. We were to facilitate certification by the CAA and BEA (Fr).
We built the enlarged tail cone tank and the "droop Snoop" and fwd. fuselage.
I recall that one of the biggest design problems was the toilet up the front.
There simply wasn't the space.
Sir George Edwards fired most of us prior to to the first revenue flight of G-BOAC out of Heathrow.
I got a job at BP in Meadhurst and enjoyed listening and watching this beautiful aircraft get airbourne for New York from the roof of the research establishment that day.
I only played a small part but by God it was fun.
I am looking at my office wall in Fremantle, Western Australia at a photograph of G-BOAC after getting airbourne on its maiden flight. It is signed by my work golleges at Brooklands.
Somewhere in a trunk I have a copy (blueprint) of prototype 01 notated in both English and French. (I cannot recall how I came by it).
This is the best thread I have read ever. What a machine !!
The spin parachute and emergency escape hatch are interesting

Mixture of comments:

AZR - The MOD did ask us to look at a military application, but it didn't take long to show that it just wasn't on, and it soon got dropped

AJ - The print room below #4 DO - you have just explained a lot! Pain in the neck if you needed a drawing urgently

DM - The prototypes had brake parachutes and escape hatches, but I don't remember ever having to even think about spinning!

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/...rstlanding.jpg">

CSL

CliveL

I'm so sorry for the undoubted grief caused by the printers and I was on your side - honest. The foreman would kick me out of the shop and tell me not to return for a couple of hours. So, I would stroll happily around the prototype in my white coat (printing was a messy business in those days) without any challenge and ID cards had not yet arrived either. All this while I imagine you were fuming away awaiting your copies.

Regds.

AJ

I think David Gunson covered this one quite well:

"Concorde flies faster than a speeding bullet....which is why they've never made a military version, because when it opened fire it'd shoot itself down"
:}

Join the club....
In my case it's a pic of G-BSST, signed by colleages and friends at Fairford.
Has been hanging over my desks in France for over 35 years, and hasn't really bleached yet.... good quality colour print....
I still have a few Xeroxes of Xeroxes of blueprints too.... probably off ancient microfilms. AJ would know all about that...
And yes, most are annotated in both French and English, both the descriptive legends and the measurements (i.e., metric and 'imperial').

CJ

"Project Rocket"
 

I understand that British Airways used G-BOAB to test the new “Project Rocket” toilets designs. What about the new galleys that were also part of “Project Rocket”, where they ever fitted to G-BOAB, and does anyone have any pictures or drawings of these galleys?

More About Happy Days.
 

Great to hear from folk involved with this beautiful work of art (and engineering).
I tried to find that blueprint of the general arrangement of 01 but that trunk in my Garage has a lot of stuff in it.
My memory is not what it used to be and brake parachute indeed makes sense. Spinning one of these aircraft would not have been an option.
I did manage to get on board G-BOAC in the hanger at Filton and was permited to walk out onto the port wing wearing felt overshoes. When I saw that leading edge at close quarters I was stunned. Never got to fly the aircraft but once saw one over the Bristol Channel when I was in a Folland Gnat. He was climbing when I decided to take a closer look. Needless to say this was an exercise in futility. Not a hope in hell of catching him but still a wonderful sight.
Cheers.

Dmussen, it is very strange to walk out onto the wing, isn't it? I, too have walked on AC's port wing and it seems to slope away from you in all directions! I didn't have the b@lls to venture near the LE! But I have seen it at close quarters from stepladders when helping to clean her when she first moved indoors at Manchester.

Been there (though not on 'AC), done that.... and yes, I agree....

CJ

That Wing.
 

Shaggy Sheep Driver,
Absolutley true. I didn't get too close to the L.E. outboard as I would have ended up make a mess of the hanger floor. One could get closer at the wing root and take in that beautiful shape. I can't think of anything more beautiful except ,perhaps, a Spitfire wing (I'm a Spitfire tragic).

How lucky are we?
 

My guess is that we're all here because we're curious/nostalgic/passionate (delete where applicable) about Concorde. To have had all this information from the people that really know, shared so patiently and graciously, has been a treat, even for a non-techie.

It also drove me to dig out a few photos from my Concorde trip, which I've put here:
Concorde pix - they're not very good, and it was a quick'n'dirty scan.

Thanks for the ride, metaphorically speaking.

Gentlemen (and ladies) on this superb thread. I hope this question isn't too "spotterish" but I'm sure it can be answered here. I've learned sooooo much about this gorgeous aircraft reading these pages.

I was listening to this radio dialogue between the last Concorde to leave JFK on Youtube here: YouTube - Last concorde communication with JFK.wmv

It's actually a very lovely (well to me it is) almost 7 minutes, with the very final sentences spoken each way - such a nice touch. Just being humble SLF though, I can't work out what "Mike" means in the dialogue i.e.

For the last time, Speedbird Concorde 2 IFR London Heathrow with Mike requesting a Canarsie climb.

Also

... expect FL290 10 minutes after, Squawk 1136 and Mike is the ####

What's Mike and also the #### term?

Thanks. CD

Airport advisories start with "Alpha" (A) and sequence through the alphabet in turn as conditions change, so "Mike" would be 13th change.
Look up Listen to Live ATC (Air Traffic Control) Communications | LiveATC.net on your browser and pick an airport and listen a while, its fun.
f

Coffin Dodger

The term ####, which you were unsure about, is ATIS, an acronym for Automatic Terminal Information Service.

The ATIS is a continuous recorded broadcast, on a separate VHF frequency, of relevant airfield conditions and information, such as wind velocity, runway in use, airfield pressure setting, air temperature, taxiway closures, delays etc.

The first such recording of the day will be designated information Alpha and every time during the day the recording is updated (say roughly every twenty minutes) the letter (NATO alphabet) increases by one.

This system spares the ATC controller from answering the same questions from every aircraft endlessly through the day, whilst also allowing him to check that each aircraft checking in with him has received the latest version of the ATIS.

Had Mike Bannister (for ‘twas he) reported that he had Lima, the controller would have realised he had an out of date ATIS report and would have asked him to copy information Mike.

Had Mike Bannister reported that he had November, the controller would have realised that he probably hadn’t copied the ATIS at all and was bluffing! ;)


Best Regards

Bellerophon

fleigle - thank you.

Bellerophon - I understand now. Many thanks for taking the trouble to answer that for me. :ok:

That's the first time I've heard that clip and I have to agree with Coffin Dodger. A really emotional recollection, it must have been so difficult to stay so professional on a day like that.

And all the other aircraft saying goodbye was so thoughtful, especially the 'ordinary heavies' asking for somewhere to delay departure so they could watch Concorde's last take off. Given how much approbation she collected the first time she went to New York, it seems New Yorkers eventually found a place in their hearts for her.

Thanks for posting that CD.

Roger.

Let's be clear folks, Concorde would have never operated to JFK without a very generous interpretation of the applicable noise abatement rules by the FAA/PoNYA guys who signed it off. Who else has ever approved a 30 degree banked turn initiated at 100' on departure as an SOP on a heavy aircraft??

Concorde had that 'je ne sais quoi' that encouraged airplane people everywhere to think big and ask themselves 'what can be done?'.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not remember anybody ever whining (at least in print) about the significant premium revenue traffic diverted from the competing US airlines!

Of course, if the Yanks had actually produced an SST, things might have been very different.

steve-de-s
Steve, I remember that OAB was fitted with the new loos and part of the new galley. They tested the new vacuum loos with DOG FOOD (no I don't know the brand :\) and as far as I recall 'the suckers' worked as advertised.
The plan was that OAB would test fly the new loos and galleys, but that was before the nasty little greasy assassins got their way and OAB (and OAA) never got the RTF as well as the frame 72 modifications.

Best regards
Dude :O

Thats super info, a big thank you!

Concorde on Ark Royal?
 

There is talk of the decommissioned Ark Royal to be moored on the Thames as a museum/heliport and residence for ex servicemen.

I'd like to raise the idea of installing a Concorde a Harrier and Spitfire on her deck as part of the museum exhibit.



Mickjoebill

Another Concorde on a river, I think we have seen enough of that situation with G-BOAD. The damp river location isn’t the best location for a Concorde, even if it does look good.
Lets find good homes from them, undercover!

Wasn't "Blue Wave" some kind of extremely gimmicky scheme of cabin lighting, going all "blue" when passing Mach1?
And, mentioning Marilake, are you talking about the cruddy Marilake proposal to replace the cabin displays with something, again much more gimmicky, and much less legible?
I think the proposal is still on their website.

CJ

The Marilake proposal is on their site Marilake Aero Systems under cabin displays.

Uurrgh.