N-reg, GA pilot license or whatever, in this case I guess if the controllers are told not to do it then you won't be doing a PAR

I am struggling to understand why the FAA considers training is necessary to fly a PAR.

Do they believe that a pilot of a commercial aircraft would not be able to obey the simple instruction to "commence descent now to establish a 3 degree glidepath" or, "turn left/right x degrees" or, " slightly above/below glidepath, adjust rate of descent" ?

FAA training required.....
 

The issue concerns the issuing authority of the license, the registration of the aircraft, and the type of flying (135/121, etc), being conducted.

I have flown PARs for many years as military, and civilian. If the operations are conducted in a N registered aircraft, by a FAA licensed pilot, under Commercial operations, then Op Spec DO apply no matter what YOU think you can do. Under the FAA regs, to be PIC of an aircraft in commerical operations there are Instrument checkrides required every 6 months. The regs state that the PIC must demonstrate proficiency in EACH type of Precision Approach that will be authorized. So, evaluated must be annotated on the 1099 that they have demonstrated proficiency in flying an ILS and a PAR (if authorized in the Op Specs). A company even though authorized in the Op Specs can elect to not conduct a PAR, and therefore not train or check those. However, if the 1099 does not reflect the PAR each 6 months then the pilot is not authorized to conduct the PAR (unless of course applying Captain's emergency authority.).

So, it isn't an ATC issue. There is training involved as is required for any other type of procedure.

In a foreign country there is more than just training involved. Since the PAR is based on language, doing a PAR in a country where English is not the primary language needs to be evaluated. This is one reason my present company has elected to NOT do PARs, in addition to authorization issues.

Well I would expect it's pretty simple, most civil aviation pilots have no experience doing PAR approaches, phraseology and procedures are new to these individuals, when we train for PAR, we also do No Gyro and ASR approaches.

Not strictly true.

And I maintain what I said earlierUnlike some other procedures, it really doesn't matter how much the pilot insistes that it is legit for him/her to fly a PAR, it's wholly in the hands of ATC!

The part that may make it an ATC issue is if the equipment, procedure design or controller training doesn't meet civil standards then it will be appropriate to promulgate it as 'not available for civil use'. Of course, not all signatories to the Chicago convention - even some of the big ones - adhere to the standards as closely as others.

Equally, under ICAO rules, if the relevant aviation authority, for pretty much whatever reason they choose, elect to limit availability of certain procedures then they can do so. And I guess the local FAA Field Officer is the representative of the aviation authority so whatever he/she says may be the deciding factor.

And it doesn't take long in this business to learn that some representatives of aviation authorities can be out of touch, a little power-crazed, lacking experience, unprepared to listen to those who do the job for real, or just plain stupid...........

spitoon
 

Spitoon,

Ok. If you want to say that ATC controlls whether a pilot does a PAR because they want to say, "No, it's U/S." Sure, I think that is obvious. If you read my post, the topic was "Operator, operation, and pilot approval". ATC DOES NOT CONTROL THIS. ANY approach that is U/S, has restrictions etc, is surely managed by ATC. I think that is an obvious point. It has nothing to do with whether a pilot can legally conduct a PAR that is functioning and authorized for use.

In otherwards, ATC will not ask, "ah, excuse me do your Op Specs allow this?", "ah, excuse me have you been evaluated on this approach IAW XXXXX?" That is the point. Just as a pilot is authorized, and trained to fly an ILS approach, if they arrive and it's U/S, ATC will restrict this. Obvious.

That is at least fourth in the line of requirements pertaining to the legality for one to fly a PAR approach.

1. Operator approval (Op Specs, if required)
2. Equipment certification (if required)
3. Pilot approval (training, and checking)
4. Approach servicability (U/S, ATC restrictions, airfield closuer, wx, other restrictions)