Using 737 Passenger Aircraft for Cargo.
 

These are unprecedented times.

To survive, passenger airlines should utilise their aircraft to carry freight (medical supplies, sanitizer, ventilators, etc). Some are already doing so.

Below are two sample loadsheets. One has 189 passengers (all seats occupied). The other has the equvalent weight of cargo on seats. This just for demonstration purposes. In both cases there is cargo in holds 3 and 4, and the crew and fuel are the same.

For spacing, every other row of seats could be removed. Nets would be used to secure the cargo, and plastic wrap as protection.


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....62aac3ad8.jpeg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....f141dec50.jpeg




https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....b41b3dbb7.jpeg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....7600661a2.jpeg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....8d8220ee0.jpeg

You should not mix passengers and cargo in the same area. Security 101.

Using cargo nets and plastic wrap among passengers is not guaranteed to be safe or secure.

Fire suppression systems for cargo would kill your passengers !

I don't think he's talking COMBI just pure freight.
Some people are trying to re-invent the wheel. Mail has been carried on pax seats for years. The only consideration of concern is Dangerous Goods, and maybe damage to cabin seats and furnishings.

A lot of cargo ac don’t have fire suppression on the main decks. Haven’t Channex being carrying night mail this way for years?

Channex night mail was carried in quick change freighters (bar one that was a pure freighter). Seats were palatised to fit the roller floor, and taken out in the evening and replaced in the morning, the change took 45 minutes ( hence QC or “quick change” freighters). But that stopped a few years ago and the last QC in the fleet was withdrawn from use last week.
None of them had cargo deck fire suppression but they did have cargo deck smoke detection, which is lacking in a pure passenger aircraft, but you could carry a crew member as a fire watch.
Boeing publish a rapid descent profile for freight aircraft in the FCTM, in case of smoke/ fire in the cargo bay.

The problem with your calculation is that most cargo is bulky especially what you’re taking about, medical supplies, ventilators etc, you won’t get 16 T of cargo carrying it on seats. SAS has a history of carrying I think mail bags in seat pouches I think but that’s about it I believe. Another problem is that you’ve got no main deck loading door for Hi loader so it would take a very long time to on/ off load cargo, and no fire extinguisher system or main deck smoke detection system would be available and how would you restrain the cargo on the seats, that’s why cargo conversions costs millions of pounds.
As an experienced freightdog, a fully kitted out 737 freighter with all the kit inc the above, side cargo door, and strengthened floor, and loading the cargo in main deck containers, you sometimes bulk out at 17-20 tons, carrying 16 T in a pax 737 would definitely not work unless you were carrying lead in the seat pockets. Channex 737s are the QC conversions, so can remove seats and carry cargo and are fitted with the side cargo door and are certified for this use.

The choice of cargo would be restricted of course.

excrab. Thanks for that - knew Channex did the changeover thing, but never knew the details.

The Boeing freighter quick descent is quite a thing to practise in the sim!

Just carrying cargo instead of pax does not make it a cargo aircraft. There are a lot of airworthiness requirements to carry cargo, it is in the design and structure which is why there are companies who carry out the conversions.
You can not carry cargo in the pax cabin and be either safe or legal.

I understand why people are doing it but if they carry on there could be a serious incident.

At what point is a structural bulkhead or net (9g?) required between the cargo bay and cockpit area?

Cheers,
Grog

I used these at a previous operator.

https://www.seatpack.net/
​
You don't need a 9g bulkhead or any of the other special cargo aircraft accoutrements. The cargo being carried isn't supposed to really weight more, or use up any more room then the self-loading-freight would.

O.K., I get it now. I went back to the Original Post and see that the O.P. is just asking about some interim measures involving little or no structural modifications. I think it could be safely done, but as Icehouses pointed out, the loading/unloading would be awkward and slow. These challenging times require innovative responses.

Cheers,
Grog

With a fleet of grounded planes, I would not mind a few delays on loading them if I could keep a few flying and also provide relief to those that are in need.
We are at war.

Apart from being a pretty wide 737 (must be the NMA version ;)), good job on the strappings, unlike what I saw on the TV this evening with the seats just strewn with unsecured boxes!

As mentioned before, seat pack freight has been carried for decades.

How do you comply with fire detection and extinguishing requirements in that scenario?. Do you still have cabin crew?

Pure freighters rarely have main deck extinguishing. They do have detection though. You could have some sort of fire watch, I guess.

On most pure freighters, main deck fire extinguishing is done by depressurizing the aircraft and maintaining at least 25,000 ft. pressure altitude (flight crew obviously on supplemental O2). This usually requires additional O2 for the crew.

Air Baltic using passenger aircraft for medical supplies. "Let's Do This."

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/a...n-airbus-a220/

Fair question, Cashash. We didn't have FAs, but that was a while ago. I don't know about the current fire requirements; but certainly in those days, it was all CAA approved, the seat packs were purpose-made to fit the seat profiles exactly, secured by the lap belts and IIRC not to weigh more than the standard pax weight.

Do you have a reg for detection / suppression of cargo / baggage fires carried upstairs?

Yes, seat packs I use are limited to 225kg = 3*75kg then plus the 6kg for the bag weight you're at 3*77kg.

Neos Air Italy using 787's to/from China carrying in-cabin bulk packages strapped to seats and hold cargo, as is EI with A330's too t/from Eire

No, but as there are regulations pertaining to fire detection and suppression below stairs I'm sure that carrying cargo above stairs without similar restrictions would not be allowed.

You have the right to be sure, but that doesn't mean you're correct (for every NAA).

Fair point - perhaps they do just chuck it on regardless.

Well it’s not just “chucked” in per se, but operators generally know what’s going upstairs. or screen as appropriate.

Is it like an ED but to FL 250?

Pugilist. Sort of to start with. So it’s all about starving the fire of O2 then doing a very rapid arrival.

1. Descend quickly to F250
2. Depressurise the ac and reconfigure the airflow (lots of different sequences for this depending on type).
3. Position the ac 45-60 track miles to go
4. Plummet. Vmo descent with AB aiming for 3000’, 15 miles at Vmo then max slow down, throw it on the ground, run away.

You really need landing clearance before leaving F250 because as you descend the O2 will increase and there is a risk of reigniting any residual fire. I think we’re doing this in our recurrent sim sequence just starting.

HtH

Thank you DeltaHotel, for the clarification.

EL AL 777 Pax to Cargo
 

EL AL Israel Airlines and its cargo division are operating cargo-only flights utilising its passenger aircraft in response to a reduction in flights, the closure of borders and the increasing demand for medical equipment such as face masks and other essential goods.

In order to increase its cargo capacity, EL AL has removed the passenger seats in some of its Boeing 777 aircraft to enable higher volumes of cargo to be transported.

This step was taken ahead of the carrier ceasing all of its passenger flights on April 4, 2020, due to low demand and travel restrictions caused by the coronavirus.

The removal of the seats in the passenger aircraft allows the aircraft to carry around 50 tons of cargo.

EL AL stated that these measurements were calculated after it had removed the seats from two passenger Boeing 777-200 aircraft (pictured).

The converted aircraft will be used by EL AL’s cargo division to meet market demand on routes to New York, Beijing, Hong Kong and Shanghai.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....6db826346.jpeg

To meet the ever-growing demand of cargo n to keep abreast with the supply of essential items & medical consumables, SpiceXpress flight SG 7101 from Delhi to Chennai created history by transporting cargo in the passenger cabin of the aircraft.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....792113c42.jpeg

Air Canada 777 passenger to freighter conversion
 

Sun Express Passenger to Freighter Conversion
 

https://www.dailysabah.com/business/...o-only-flights

FAA Approves Seatless Airliners For Freight
 

The FAA has issued guidance to airlines who want to take the seats out of idle aircraft and fill them with cargo. The drastic drop in passenger traffic has had a parallel effect on available cargo space. Some airlines were flying cargo-only flights with empty seats upstairs but the safety alert for operators (SAFO) issued by the agency gives formal approval for temporary freight conversions. The SAFO says freight can be carried in the overhead bins, on the seats or on the floor, with the seats removed. The seat tracks can be used for tying down the cargo. The weight and balance has to be calculated and the floor strength considered in placing the freight. One or more airline employees have to ride with the cabin freight because there are no fire detection systems in the passenger cabin. The freight can’t block access to the fire extinguishers.

Nice one. Can’t see anything to complain about there. Perhaps the airlines using this might like their crews to have a read of the Boeing FCTM on expedited descents in the event of a cargo fire.

Sample Loadsheet For Cargo In Passenger Aircraft
 

See possible loading scenario for pax version 737 NG (in attachment).

Heavy items in the lower hold, bulky and light items on the passenger seats, overhead bins, and below seats.

Also attached EASA guidelines.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....d2e49d0271.jpg
B738 Emergency medical supplies beginning of April 2020

Any other 737 Operators ?
 

Would be nice to see some more photos of cabin arrangements.

Nice Article Regarding Passenger To Cargo Ops.
 

This might very well become the “New Normal”. I would imagine the next step would be to design a purpose-built cabin-container-unit with attachment points that would fit onto the seat tracks.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhor.../#348d4a156283

IATA issues new guidance on cargo transport in passenger aircraft
 

Just came across this.