Landing the 737 fully crabbed
 

I just transitioned from a larger jet to the 737 and one of the things I noticed is that it is not recommended to perform sideslip only (zero crab) landings in strong crosswinds. According to the FCTM however, the airplane can land using crab only (zero sideslip) up to maximum crosswind.

Being used to landing sideslip only (full decrab during the flare) I'm not sure how to tackle this. Some recommend a partial decrab, but this feels very unnatural to me. A fully crabbed landing on the other hand does not sound very comfortable to me.

So are there any 737 drivers who land it fully crabbed in strong crosswinds? How does that work out? Very curious!

I didn't realize it was possible to transition from one type to another without undergoing simulator (or real thing) training.

Cheers,
Grog

Prior to the advent of downward pointing winglets, the standard landing technique taught at my airline was to either 1) start using slideslip around 100-150 feet to give autothrottles time to react, or 2) decrab in the flare. With the new winglets causing clearance issues, we are no longer advised to use method 1 in anything other that light crosswinds. If decrabbing in the flare, it doesn't hurt to carry a few extra knots due to the sudden increase in drag.

Boeing says you can land the 737 in a full crab, but it is not recommended for dry runways due to stress on the gear and tires. When braking actions are less than good, then landing with some crab is less of a problem.

Decrab during flare, between 10' and 20' RA, the aircraft can happily take a crab angle of 5 degrees or less in any condition and it is certified to land in a crab according to the guidelines provided in the FCTM. Might not be pretty, but it can be done and it's ok on wet or slippery runways.
The 737 is the only jet I have experience on, but what I can say is that the rudder is incredibly powerful so all it takes is a very smooth application of rudder. And just when you think the amount of rudder you are applying is not enough, it's actually enough!

These are my 2 cents. New on type and still with too little exposure to crosswinds.

Doesn't the 737 main gear have a limited amount of castoring ability?

True.FCTM says such things. Would be the first aircraft in my life that ACTUALLY asks me to do that but I prefer to full decrab it as in most other types(and I have landed easy up to the max demonstrated wind conditions)In some companies you "have to play the game" in the sim and land it as they say. But why not decrab it if there is really no penalty on handling(more an improvement I would say by "decrabbing" it). What the FCTM suggests is one thing that you do not want in an already stressing situation - feeling VERY uncomfortable.

Once properly learned(as most of us know), decrabbing an aircraft is an easy thing.

My advice: Play the "game" as long as you are under training(depending on the linetrainer really, most use common sense and decrab it OF COURSE). Later, if you sit on the left seat there is no issue how you do it as long as it is safe. If you are sitting right discuss the plan during briefing with the skipper - most will be happy.

FWIW on the -300, I used just to align with the runway at a suitable height, depending on crosswind (perhaps 200-300ft approaching maximum), sideslip as required to maintain track, pitch up a degree or two to account for the slip, and the old girl would paint herself on every time ....

NOT good advice to the OP for 737 operation, after they claimed to: which by definition means 'wing down'. It is especially poor advice as it goes against the recommendation that the OP kindly referenced. The recommendation is there for very good reasons - engine strike being the most obvious.

Correct. A pod strike would be my main concern. I assume the recommendation is there for that reason.

I've always been very comfortable with heavy crosswind landings, but not being able to fully decrab is a strange thing to me. Guess I'm going to have to make it work using a partial decrab technique.

According to slide 14 of Capt John Cashman's (Boeing's Chief Test Pilot) presentation "Crosswind Guidelines"
http://www.smartcockpit.com/docs/Cro...Guidelines.pdf
"* Full crab not recommended for maximum crosswind on Long Beach products"

Yeah, that refers to the DCs and MDs...

My advice is to ask your new employer what Compamy Policy is on this subject and then stick to it!

All of my employers have said the same thing - remove the drift in the flare by squeezing (NOT kicking) the rudder and apply a little opposite aileron to stop the wing rising.

And, on a jet, never ever use the rudder to pick up a dropped wing - it may be alright on a Cessna 150 but not on a jet. And if you want to know why then ask a training captain at your new employer.

You do not say. Was thinking it is all the same ^^.

Hell. You DO NOT know some (irish:}) operators back here in Europe. They make Voodoo out of their entire 737 OPS(by issuing a ton of FCI's and lot of other crab). All magic(for them) ;) . But I agree - from a (experienced, need to add that nowadays)pilots point of view is is a rather common airliner. Dated(even the NG and MAX), but an rather easy rig. No big deal to handle it during X-winds.

YEP. Some need to do that. Just land the bloody thing as any other airliner. To clarify - that means you are looking with your nose pointing AT the centerliner. Not really something so strange(I hope). Other aircraft, take the CRJ for instance, would have issues with a wing TIP strike, still, you use the same normal technique. Or a Global Express which is even more vulnerable to that(due to the even more swept wings). HOW many tip(trailing edge) strike they have?
Again -on the SIM use whatever your TRE wants you to pass the gig. Most of the time TRE's have a loughable ammount of command experience on type(and in general, other discussion), so DO NOT argue with them, play the game. In the real world, without an TRE grading you on some questionable company procedures do what is safest for you, the passengers, the plane, your license(last but not least).

I have seen some FO's pulling that crap by not fully decrabbing(^^) and I have seen VERY scary landings. Thanks god the folks in the back had no idea, but I was(and sometimes did) ready to interfere that questionable procedure.

Danger of slight thread drift here. If you are talking about recovery from a wing drop at the point of stall It is not alright on a Cessna or any other aircraft. That is an old wives tale from time immemorial.

Have used the "kill the crab in the flare" method from the 146, 320, 733 and the 744 and have NEVER worked anywhere where landing crabbed has been seen as acceptable. Yes, the aircraft are designed to handle it, but it was not viewed as an acceptable landing technique.

Imo the fact that x-wind landings seems to provoke some trepidation is from a lack of exposure prior to airline flying. Where I'm from most pilots have had a reasonable amount of experience from light twins to turbo-props compared to today, with a larger number of pilots coming through cadet schemes then straight onto jets, add the attitude that training is a cost and this is where we end up; pilots feeling knots in their stomachs when faced with x-winds.

It certainly isn't a lack of ability, but training / experience / exposure.

Full crabbed landing is not recommended because the gear is not designed for side stress. In 747 on wet a runway it was recommended to land with crab. On a wet runway the aircraft on touch down with the crab will skid sideways before straightening. This reduces the side load. Interestingly which big aircraft is only side slip zero crab landing is recommended?

Agree. That is a good way of describing that late manoeuvre. It takes keen judgement and this is because it requires a few seconds for the applied rudder to swing the nose around to align with runway centreline at the point of touchdown
.A common fault being pilots “Kick” the appropriate rudder pedal at the flare and the wheels hit the runway before the aircraft has time to react. “Kick” is not the appropriate term of course but you get my drift (pun intended..)