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-   -   A320neo Rotation (https://www.pprune.org/tech-log/612962-a320neo-rotation.html)

MD83FO 31st May 2019 03:54

the flare on the 321 NEO feels mushy causing a prolonged flare but i cant find anything on the books.
maybe thats why they keep quiet with boeing related matters.

vilas 31st May 2019 11:49


Originally Posted by MD83FO (Post 10483142)
the flare on the 321 NEO feels mushy causing a prolonged flare but i cant find anything on the books.
maybe thats why they keep quiet with boeing related matters.

It's not neo but all sharklet aircraft are slippery in flare because of drag reduction. Because of that SAFETY FIRST states that for GS mini only 1/3 of ∆ wind is used unlike non sharklets aircraft which use full ∆wind.

sonicbum 31st May 2019 12:18


Originally Posted by vilas (Post 10483446)
It's not neo but all sharklet aircraft are slippery in flare because of drag reduction. Because of that SAFETY FIRST states that for GS mini only 1/3 of ∆ wind is used unlike non sharklets aircraft which use full ∆wind.

Are You sure about that ? Safety first #24 only discusses CEO vs NEO difference in the k factor.

vilas 31st May 2019 13:52

Sonic check this one
https://safetyfirst.airbus.com/contr...h-and-landing/

Check Airman 31st May 2019 14:07


Originally Posted by vilas (Post 10483524)

That article doesn't mention sharklets, or did I miss something? Always more to know about this plane.

As an aside, I like the way they put it. "Stronger deceleration capability". Is that the PC way of saying underpowered? :O

pineteam 31st May 2019 17:24


Originally Posted by Check Airman (Post 10483531)
That article doesn't mention sharklets, or did I miss something? Always more to know about this plane.

As an aside, I like the way they put it. "Stronger deceleration capability". Is that the PC way of saying underpowered? :O

Interesting. I assume they are talking about the CEO without sharklets; Otherwise I don’t undestand how it’s possible. I don’t see how a NEO with engines of 81 inches diameter can not have a stronger deceleration. Lol

vilas 1st Jun 2019 08:46


Originally Posted by Check Airman (Post 10483531)
That article doesn't mention sharklets, or did I miss something? Always more to know about this plane.

As an aside, I like the way they put it. "Stronger deceleration capability". Is that the PC way of saying underpowered? :O

May be I mistook it as Sharklets in place of Neo. It says neo. But the effect is due to sharklets.

sonicbum 1st Jun 2019 09:58


Originally Posted by vilas (Post 10483524)

Hi vilas,

thanks, that's the one I was referring to. The k factor of .33 is applicable to the NEO but I can't see any reference to the CEOs with sharklets... unless I am missing something ?

Cheers.

vilas 1st Jun 2019 11:21


Originally Posted by sonicbum (Post 10484090)
Hi vilas,

thanks, that's the one I was referring to. The k factor of .33 is applicable to the NEO but I can't see any reference to the CEOs with sharklets... unless I am missing something ?

Cheers.

I misread it. It says Neo. But the effect is due to sharklets. As PT says higher fan diameter should offer more drag.

sonicbum 1st Jun 2019 11:45


Originally Posted by vilas (Post 10484125)
I misread it. It says Neo. But the effect is due to sharklets. As PT says higher fan diameter should offer more drag.

Makes sense, thanks.

FlightDetent 1st Jun 2019 13:10

Airbus usually do not make that kind of mistakes in official documents. Writing NEO but meaning Sharklets, missing the hint there are probably more CEOs with sharklets than NEOs produced altogether.

Though I do agree with the sentiments above, I think we should not settle for a "typo" type explanation.

vilas 1st Jun 2019 14:52


Originally Posted by FlightDetent (Post 10484185)
Airbus usually do not make that kind of mistakes in official documents. Writing NEO but meaning Sharklets, missing the hint there are probably more CEOs with sharklets than NEOs produced altogether.

Though I do agree with the sentiments above, I think we should not settle for a "typo" type explanation.

Somebody needs to ask Airbus on tech request.

sonicbum 1st Jun 2019 15:04


Originally Posted by FlightDetent (Post 10484185)
Airbus usually do not make that kind of mistakes in official documents. Writing NEO but meaning Sharklets, missing the hint there are probably more CEOs with sharklets than NEOs produced altogether.

Though I do agree with the sentiments above, I think we should not settle for a "typo" type explanation.

Very true indeed. We do not operate NEOs but we do operate lots of sharklets CEOs and the related MSN FCOM has the same GS mini logic as the winglets ones. I guess it’s time to give our technical pilot a bit of work 😁

FlightDetent 1st Jun 2019 15:45

It is in the article, understanding it becomes the hard part. With 6 landings on NEO combined, I am not qualified to draw opinions.

pineteam 1st Jun 2019 16:05


Originally Posted by sonicbum (Post 10484242)


Very true indeed. We do not operate NEOs but we do operate lots of sharklets CEOs and the related MSN FCOM has the same GS mini logic as the winglets ones. I guess it’s time to give our technical pilot a bit of work ��

I just checked my FCOM: For the CEO with wingtips fences and sharklets the GS logic is the same and for the NEO the GS logic is 1/3... Exactly as described in that Airbus magazine... Weird. I hope we can get an answer soon. =)

Field In Sight 1st Jun 2019 17:32

Regarding the original posters question.

On the NEO, I don't notice any difference in the initial pitch up from the runway. However, approaching the initial climb pitch attitude, the required pull back on the stick is much less. This gives a tendency to overpitch if you don't anticipate it.

Not really noticed any difference on landing.

Check Airman 1st Jun 2019 19:00


Originally Posted by Field In Sight (Post 10484315)
Regarding the original posters question.

On the NEO, I don't notice any difference in the initial pitch up from the runway. However, approaching the initial climb pitch attitude, the required pull back on the stick is much less. This gives a tendency to overpitch if you don't anticipate it.

So you're saying they modified it to fly more like the sim? :D

OPEN DES 1st Jun 2019 19:06


Originally Posted by pineteam (Post 10484270)


I just checked my FCOM: For the CEO with wingtips fences and sharklets the GS logic is the same and for the NEO the GS logic is 1/3... Exactly as described in that Airbus magazine... Weird. I hope we can get an answer soon. =)

Higher residual thrust at idle on the NEO? Only flew it once.

pineteam 2nd Jun 2019 00:15


Originally Posted by OPEN DES (Post 10484366)


Higher residual thrust at idle on the NEO? Only flew it once.

Hi OPEN DES,

Only flew it once also haha. So can not really say. But that could be it.

vilas 2nd Jun 2019 05:39

There are different angles at work. One is the sharklets. However subtle it should make some difference during flare and touchdown from winglets. It did to 747-400 from classic, the 737 guys may opine about the 737-300 and NG. The other is engines.Between the CFM and IAE engines Ceo aircraft the IAE has more thrust at lower levels while CFM has higher thrust at higher levels. This is born out by OEI ceilings which are noticeably higher for CFM. That includes residual thrust. I know of one Airline where they find hard landing occurrences are much higher on the Neo with CFM but they are comparing with their CEOs which have IAE. The Neos have higher fan diameter and higher weight and they feel it tends to drop when thrust is closed. And yet according to Airbus the Neo deceleration is less as compared to CEO. So the correct answer can only come from the Airbus. Can someone get it?


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