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-   -   Mandatory Altitude Jepp Chart (https://www.pprune.org/tech-log/610312-mandatory-altitude-jepp-chart.html)

Feather44 21st Jun 2018 15:04

Mandatory Altitude Jepp Chart
 
Good Day All,
It's been a while a have this question in mind. I did my research on the Jepp manual but I didn't find anything conclusive.
Is a level off between 12D and 7,4D mandatory? or the constraint 2000 Ft only apply at the FAF 7,4D?
Awaiting for your comments and doc reference if you have one.
Cheers

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmf...cca35db7ae.png

FlightDetent 21st Jun 2018 17:04

Step 1: check the AIP ? It kinda opens the question, how quickly you'd need to descent to comply with the author's intent...

Klimax 21st Jun 2018 17:45


Originally Posted by Feather44 (Post 10178411)
Good Day All,
It's been a while a have this question in mind. I did my research on the Jepp manual but I didn't find anything conclusive.
Is a level off between 12D and 7,4D mandatory? or the constraint 2000 Ft only apply at the FAF 7,4D?
Awaiting for your comments and doc reference if you have one.
Cheers

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmf...cca35db7ae.png

You can decent to 2000 feet after passing D12.0, but you don't have to if you're following a profile (eg. you can be higher than 2000 feet), but you must not decent below the MANDATORY altitude depicted until after passing D7.4(FD33).

FlightDetent 21st Jun 2018 18:45

Isn't that the situation if the word MANDATORY had not been there?

RAT 5 21st Jun 2018 18:53

Interesting that 'mandatory' is also published for the procedure turn at 2500'. I've never seen this before. Regarding the 2000' & 7.4nm, it is usual to show 2000' AT 7.4nm. If the same was true for the procedure turn it should show 2500' AT 12nm.

It is bizarre by it being an unusual display. I wonder what other chart manufacturers depict? After all, Jeppesen publishes only the information supplied to them by the state.

EGPFlyer 21st Jun 2018 19:01


Originally Posted by RAT 5 (Post 10178589)
Interesting that 'mandatory' is also published for the procedure turn at 2500'. I've never seen this before. Regarding the 2000' & 7.4nm, it is usual to show 2000' AT 7.4nm. If the same was true for the procedure turn it should show 2500' AT 12nm.

It is bizarre by it being an unusual display. I wonder what other chart manufacturers depict? After all, Jeppesen publishes only the information supplied to them by the state.

The AIP version only has the ‘at 2500’ at 12D inbound so the turn can be flown whilst descending

FlightDetent 21st Jun 2018 20:09

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmf...5ee4d03643.png

Lido. Couldn't find the Egyptian AIP online.

STBYRUD 22nd Jun 2018 08:15

Lido shows it a lot more clearly. Unfortunately this is another example of Jeppesen's lack of standardization when it comes to their charts, its like the magic phrase 'authorization required' on CAT II and III minimums (stating the obvious), but the same note on RNP-AR procedures (which are usually called only RNAV still on many of their charts).

FlightDetent 22nd Jun 2018 12:53

Jeppesen could show the same as Lido, but for some reason decided not to, and included the M word. Still curious.

Feather44 24th Jun 2018 10:00

Lido make it crystal clear!!
Thanks for your answers guys.

aterpster 24th Jun 2018 13:19


Originally Posted by STBYRUD (Post 10179014)
Lido shows it a lot more clearly. Unfortunately this is another example of Jeppesen's lack of standardization when it comes to their charts, its like the magic phrase 'authorization required' on CAT II and III minimums (stating the obvious), but the same note on RNP-AR procedures (which are usually called only RNAV still on many of their charts).

Jeppesen title for RNP AR is RNAV (RNP) RWY XX and combined with "authorization required" in the briefing strip is the functional equivalent of "RNP AR."

underfire 24th Jun 2018 14:04

hahaha...just remembered, the term 'briefing strip' is a Jepp trademark!

Jepp Definition:
MANDATORY ALTITUDE — An altitude depicted on an instrument approach procedure chart requiring the aircraft to maintain altitude at the depicted value

All altitudes depicted in the profile view are MINIMUM altitudes unless specifically labeled otherwise.
All altitudes are above mean sea level in feet (AMSL).
5 — Maximum altitudes: may be abbreviated "MAX".
6 — Mandatory altitudes: abbreviations are not used.
7 — Recommended altitudes: abbreviations are not used

aterpster 25th Jun 2018 13:04


Originally Posted by underfire (Post 10180726)
hahaha...just remembered, the term 'briefing strip' is a Jepp trademark!

Could be. But, FAA uses briefing strips on FAA IAP charts. The concept originated at Volpe:

https://www.volpe.dot.gov/

not at Jeppesen.

safetypee 25th Jun 2018 13:49

Does the ‘Mandatory’ labelling follow ICAO standards and recommended practices?
Does the USA/FAA follow ICAO in this matter; if not have they declared a deviation from ICAO?
Alternatively if the FAA and ICAO are in agreement, then are ‘volpe’ / Jepp, etc out of step, and are they, and what they publish subject to FAA oversight?




underfire 25th Jun 2018 20:31

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmf...fa1a9552cb.jpg

Standards in charting?!?!?! Thats funny!

aterpster 26th Jun 2018 13:04


Originally Posted by underfire (Post 10181703)
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmf...fa1a9552cb.jpg

Standards in charting?!?!?! Thats funny!

https://tinyurl.com/y85govyu

jondoyle 6th Jul 2020 16:24

Just wondering if we had made any further progress on this or if we have anything definitive.

It doesn’t appear to me to make any sense to be using stepdown attitudes nowadays with the systems we have on board and our ability to fly constant descent CDFA approaches.

Interested to hear peoples opinions 🤔

717tech 7th Jul 2020 05:36

I'd take it to mean that you must descend to 2000' once passed 12nm. Could it be due to traffic conflicts at another field? Or to separate departing traffic?

Banana Joe 7th Jul 2020 08:35

Old topic this one, but I asked a similar questions not long ago. It's just a Jeppesen thing, it's mandatory to be at the FAF at or above 2000 ft, not below.

Vessbot 7th Jul 2020 20:34


Originally Posted by Banana Joe (Post 10830971)
Old topic this one, but I asked a similar questions not long ago. It's just a Jeppesen thing, it's mandatory to be at the FAF at or above 2000 ft, not below.

This is not true. It's mandatory to be AT 2000, not above or below.
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