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-   -   Cold temperature corrections on LNAV/VNAV minima (https://www.pprune.org/tech-log/571852-cold-temperature-corrections-lnav-vnav-minima.html)

longobard 14th Dec 2015 02:31

Cold temperature corrections on LNAV/VNAV minima
 
Hey guys,

I cannot really come to an end weather it's necessary or not to apply cold temperature corrections to minimum altitudes when performing RNAV GNSS apch using LNAV VNAV minima on A320/330.

According to the latest 2015 issue of Getting to grips with cold weather operations :

5.2.1 Low* altitude* temperature* corrections Corrections* on* an* indicated* altitude* have* to* be* applied* on* the* published* minimum altitude,* except* when* the* criteria* used* to* determine* minimum* flight* altitudes* are* already published* and* take* into* account* low* temperature* influences. (Reference to LFBO 14L RNAV GNSS Baro-Vnav minimum temperature is made).

On the other hand ICAO and EASA reminds crews to apply temperature corrections in APV approaches (regardless if the Baro-Vnav system incorporates or not a VPA auto compensation system or not):

ICAO PBN MANUAL DOC9613
6.3.4.2.12 Temperature compensation.* For aircraft* with* temperature* compensation* capabilities, approved* operating procedures may allow* pilots to disregard the* temperature* limits on RNP AR* APCH procedures if the operator provides pilot training on* the use of* the temperature compensation function. Temperature compensation* by* the system is applicable* to the baro-VNAV* guidance* and is* not a substitute* for the* pilot compensating* for the cold temperature effects on minimum altitudes or the DA. Pilots should be familiar* with* the* effects of* the temperature* compensation* on intercepting the compensated path described in EUROCAE ED-75B/ RTCA DO-236B Appendix H.

6.3.5.3.2 k) temperature compensation —* pilots* operating* avionics systems* with* compensation* for altimetry* errors introduced* by* deviations from ISA may disregard the temperature* limits on RNP AR APCH procedures, if* pilot training* on* the use of the temperature compensation* function* is provided* by* the operator and the compensation function is* utilized* by* the crew. However, the training* must also recognize the temperature compensation* by* the system is applicable to the* VNAV guidance and is not a substitute for* the pilot compensating for the cold* temperature effects on minimum altitudes or the DA.

6.4.2.11.3 The effect of extreme* temperature (e.g. extreme* cold* temperatures, known local atmospheric or* weather phenomena, high* winds, severe turbulence) on barometric* altitude* errors on the* vertical path is mitigated through the procedure* design* and crew* procedures,* with an allowance for* aircraft that compensate for this effect to conduct procedures regardless of the* published temperature limit.* The effect of* this error on minimum segment altitudes and the DA is addressed in an equivalent manner to all other approach operations.

EASA AMC 20-27A, Appendix 4* par.1.2:
For* APV* BARO-VNAV* operation,* pilots* are* responsible* for* any* necessary* cold temperature* compensations* to* all* published* minimum altitudes/heights.* This* includes: a)*** the* altitudes/heights* for* the* initial* and* intermediate* segment(s); b)*** the* DA/H;* and c)*** subsequent* missed* approach* altitudes/heights. APV* BARO-VNAV* procedures* are* not* permitted* when* the* aerodrome* temperature* is below* the* promulgated* minimum* aerodrome* temperature* for* the* procedure,* unless* the RNAV* system* is* equipped* with* approved* cold* temperature* compensation* for* the* final approach.

What's your or your operator idea?

Txs for sharing.

Denti 14th Dec 2015 10:19

Not necessarily, there are quite a few procedures that are certified to a certain temperature, at my home base for example down to -15°C. In that case no correction is necessary to those procedures if the OAT is above or the same as the certification temperature.

However, the OPs question was about APVs, which is something i do not know much about as we do not fly them at all. None of our boeings or airbii is equipped for that.

Citation2 14th Dec 2015 10:50

Can you provide a link for the latest issue getting to grips with cold weather 2015?

Thanks

sonicbum 14th Dec 2015 11:13


Originally Posted by longobard (Post 9209767)
Hey guys,

I cannot really come to an end weather it's necessary or not to apply cold temperature corrections to minimum altitudes when performing RNAV GNSS apch using LNAV VNAV minima on A320/330.

What's your or your operator idea?

Txs for sharing.

That you are not allowed to modify the procedure except for speed constraints. RNAV Approaches to LNAV/VNAV minima usually specify a minimum temperature in order to apply said minima, if no temperature is reported than we take 0 deg as a reference temperature. In all other conditions (temperature below the minimum specified for the procedure) we revert to LNAV minima and yes we start applying temperature corrections for the different characteristic altitudes (FCOM-PER-OPD).
Hope it makes sense.

Skyjob 14th Dec 2015 14:26

sonicbum has the right approach to this situation.

There is a difference to LNAV, LNAV/VNAV and APV altitudes.

LNAV minima, like VOR, LOC, NDB and visuals are to be corrected for Cold Weather.
LNAV/VNAV minima are not, as the procedure is defined up to a minimum temperature for which it is safe to be used. This temperature must be displayed on the chart in order for the approach to be used.

APV minima are a different animal all together.
As the previous minima all apply to Barometric VNAV aircraft, the APV minima ONLY apply to aircraft which benefit from a vertical GPS input (eg not the 737). These minima do not require correcting as they are more accurate then barometric VNAV which relies on the correct QNH input to prevent a Blunder Error.

Ultimately, it is this latter Blunder Error we are trying to avoid, getting too close to terrain, when we are not supposed to be...

I-2021 15th Dec 2015 05:19


Originally Posted by Skyjob (Post 9210195)
APV minima are a different animal all together.
As the previous minima all apply to Barometric VNAV aircraft, the APV minima ONLY apply to aircraft which benefit from a vertical GPS input (eg not the 737). These minima do not require correcting as they are more accurate then barometric VNAV which relies on the correct QNH input to prevent a Blunder Error.

Ultimately, it is this latter Blunder Error we are trying to avoid, getting too close to terrain, when we are not supposed to be...

Hi Skyjob,

as far as the regulations permit, you can fly APVs with GNSS+Baro VNAV. The APV with GPS+SBAS will give you a lower minima.
Check out this document

Avenger 15th Dec 2015 08:24

6.3.2 Vertical accuracy for APV BARO*VNAV operation.
a) Altimetry System Error (ASE)
Altimetry system performance is demonstrated separately from the APV BARO*VNAV certification through the static pressure system certification process. With such approval (e.g. CS 25.1325), each system must be designed and installed so that the error in indicated pressure altitude, at sea*level, with a standard atmosphere, excluding instrument calibration error, does not result in an error of more than ±9 m (±30 ft) per 185 km/hr (100 knots) speed for the appropriate configuration in the speed range between 1·23 VSR0 with wing*flaps extended and 1·7 VSR1 with wing*flaps retracted. However, the error need not be less than ±9 m (±30 ft).

7.4 Recommended Function for APV BARO*VNAV operation
AMC 20*27
Item
Functional Description

1
Temperature compensation: Capability to automatically adjust the vertical flight path for temperature effects. The equipment should provide the capability for entry of altimeter source temperature to compute temperature compensation for the vertical flight path angle. The system should provide clear and distinct indication to the flight crew of this compensation/adjustment.

As an operator we make the cold weather corrections if required by the approach limits published.

JammedStab 15th Dec 2015 23:32


Originally Posted by Denti (Post 9210003)
Not necessarily, there are quite a few procedures that are certified to a certain temperature, at my home base for example down to -15°C. In that case no correction is necessary to those procedures if the OAT is above or the same as the certification temperature.

Could you show me an example of that.

Thanks.

FlightDetent 15th Dec 2015 23:40

I am supposed to compensate for DA on ILS GP. The way I was trained to understand why, gives no option but to do the same for all other approaches too.

I-2021 16th Dec 2015 04:59


Originally Posted by JammedStab (Post 9211707)
Could you show me an example of that.

Thanks.

Hi,

check this chart page 5 of 7. Just below authorization required the chart reports a minimum temperature of -10 deg C.

longobard 16th Dec 2015 13:14

Jammedstab

Rnav rnp ar follow a different certification process. I'm talking about rnav gnss with lnav/vnav minima.

longobard 16th Dec 2015 13:15

Citation2

Sorry my company provided me the document, I don't have a link

Denti 16th Dec 2015 13:52

On our LIDO charts there is usually a note at the baro vnav minimum which indicates the lowest usable temperature for uncompensated use of said minimum.

For example a random RNAV (GPS) approach from a well known airport nearby.

aterpster 16th Dec 2015 16:01

Following is an example of how its done at an airport that the FAA has designated as a "cold temperature" airport. Burlington, Vermont is one such airport. Below I show the Jeppesen cold temperature correction chart and the Jeppesen chart for the RNAV (GPS) Runway 15 IAP. The assumption I make for this example is the airplane I am flying has IFR-certified Baro VNAV but not WASS (SBAS).

There are two separate temperature issues for flying to LNAV/VNAV minimums.

Note 2 are the temperature limits within which I must be to use the VNAV glide-slope to the LNAV/VNAV DA. Note 3 requires me to apply cold station temperature corrections below -14 degrees Celsius.

on a day when the airport temperature is -15 degrees Celsius I can still fly to LNAV/VNAV minimums but I must apply temperature corrections to the terminal arrival area in which I am arriving. I'll leave that calculation to others. My calculation for the intermediate segment is a 201 foot additive to the 2,000' minimum altitude. I have to advise ATC of the fact I am going to fly the intermediate segment at 2,200.' For the DA I will add 40 feet. I do not have to advise ATC of the DA additive.

Finally, if the temperature were below -19 degrees Celsius I would have to fly to the LNAV MDA with the appropriate additive from the chart to MDA and to the 1,020’ stepdown altitude:

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...pscicomwig.jpg

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...pssqmiazgc.jpg

aterpster 16th Dec 2015 16:15

In the preceding example, if I were WAAS (SBAS) equipped there would be no temperature limitation for flying to LPV minimums, but I would nonetheless have to apply the appropriate corrections to the minimum altitudes for the TAA, intermediate segment, and DA.

hawk37 16th Dec 2015 19:24


I have to advise ATC of the fact I am going to fly the intermediate segment at 2,200.'
I always thought the published altitudes were minimums, and if the pilot were to choose to descend on the intermediate segment to 2500 feet, level off, and intercept the vnav slope from 2500 ft then that was perfectly fine and atc did not need to be told. Exceptions of course it the chart says an "at" altitude.

Was this ever the case aterpster?

aterpster 16th Dec 2015 20:08

hawk37:


I always thought the published altitudes were minimums, and if the pilot were to choose to descend on the intermediate segment to 2500 feet, level off, and intercept the vnav slope from 2500 ft then that was perfectly fine and atc did not need to be told. Exceptions of course it the chart says an "at" altitude.

Was this ever the case aterpster?
You are correct and that still is the case much of the time. But, the FAA includes the requirement in the cold temp procedure, because it has to cover 100% of the cases, especially where there is a mandatory altitude. The temperature correction would take precedence over the mandatory altitude.

Xiamen 16th Dec 2015 21:51

If you fly a RNAV approach to non precision or LNAV minima, you correct all minimum altitudes.
If you fly a RNAV approach to VNAV minima or an GPS AR approach, both with minimum temperature stated on the chart, no temp corrections except your minima. If you are outside the minimum temp on the chart, you can't fly the approach.

aterpster 16th Dec 2015 23:10

Kiaman:


If you fly a RNAV approach to VNAV minima or an GPS AR approach, both with minimum temperature stated on the chart, no temp corrections except your minima. If you are outside the minimum temp on the chart, you can't fly the approach.
So, in the Burlington chart I show above, you aren't going to temperature correct the applicable minimum TAA altitude or the intermediate segment altitude?

B737900er 16th Dec 2015 23:30

I just recently done the in the sim. I was told to temp correct it all regardless of the temp limitation on the chart (outside the temp limitation of course you can't fly the approach.)

I-2021 17th Dec 2015 04:32


Originally Posted by B737900er (Post 9212821)
I just recently done the in the sim. I was told to temp correct it all regardless of the temp limitation on the chart (outside the temp limitation of course you can't fly the approach.)

Hi B737,

just curious about which technique you have used to correct the altitudes according to your manufacturer/operator procedures.

Thanks.

Denti 17th Dec 2015 07:50


I just recently done the in the sim. I was told to temp correct it all regardless of the temp limitation on the chart (outside the temp limitation of course you can't fly the approach.)
Interesting, that would be a different according to our OM/A here. It states quite clearly:

"No corrections are needed for reported temperatures above -15°C or if the aerodrome temperature is at or above the minimum published temperature for the procedure being flown;"

B737900er 17th Dec 2015 08:36

My company are new to RNAV/RNP approaches so they may be a bit confused as I am to this topic.

We are told if the temp is below 0 degrees we cold temp correct all procedure altitudes (platform, MSA, MDH, Dist/ALt ).

I understand that below the stated temp limitation on the chart Vnav can no longer be used.

wiggy 17th Dec 2015 09:09

FWIW our EASA-land OM, paraphrased, for RNAV.../uncompensated VNAV states:

Always fly ATC assigned altitudes without corrections, unless considered unsafe.. etc etc.

If you are at or warmer than the charted minimum temperature for using VNAV then it can be used with no corrections to procedure altitudes.

If it is colder than the limiting temperature, you use the non-VNAV minima if they exist (and vertical mode to be used is V/S or FPA).

If it's any colder than ISA -25 you apply low temp corrections (using an approved table/calculator) to any platform/FAF altitude and MDA/DA. Tell ATC what your Platform/FAF crossing altitude is going to be.

Avenger 17th Dec 2015 09:53

Cold Temperature Altitude Corrections
Extremely low temperatures create significant altimeter errors and greater potential for reduced terrain clearance. When the temperature is colder than ISA, true altitude will be lower than indicated altitude. Altimeter errors become significantly larger when the surface temperature approaches -30°C or colder, and also become larger with increasing height above the altimeter reference source.
Apply the altitude correction table when needed:
no corrections are needed for reported temperatures above 0°C or if the airport temperature is at or above the minimum published temperature for the procedure being flown
• do not correct altimeter barometric reference settings
• ATC assigned altitudes or flight levels should not be adjusted for temperature when under radar control
• corrections apply to QNH and QFE operations
• apply corrections to all published minimum departure, en route and approach altitudes, including missed approach altitudes, according to the table below. Advise ATC of the corrections
• MDA/DA settings should be set at the corrected minimum altitudes for the approach
• subtract the elevation of the altimeter barometric reference setting source (normally the departure or destination airport elevation) from the published minimum altitude to be flown to determine “height above altimeter reference source”
• enter the table with Airport Temperature and with “height above altimeter reference source”. Read the correction where these two entries intersect. Add the correction to the published minimum altitude to be flown to determine the corrected indicated altitude to be flown. To correct an altitude above the altitude in the last column, use linear extrapolation (e.g., to correct 6000 feet or 1800 meters, use twice the correction for 3000 feet or 900 meters, respectively.) The corrected altitude must always be greater than the published minimum altitude
• if the corrected indicated altitude to be flown is between 100 foot increments, set the MCP altitude to the closest 100 foot increment above the corrected indicated altitude to be flown.

Goldenrivett 17th Dec 2015 10:21

This document http://www.developpement-durable.gou...NSS__ENGv3.pdf says that no temperature corrections are required if the airport is at or above the minimum published on the chart.

If the temperature is below the published minimum then:
"7.5.4 Case of temperatures below minimum temperatures published on the approach chart

On the RNAV(GNSS) approach charts for which there is an APV BaroVNAV approach (presence of LNAV/VNAV minima), a minimum temperature use is published.
As a general rule, pilots should not use the FMS (Baro)VNAV function when the temperature is below the temperature limit published on the approach chart.
The associated non-precision approach (LNAV) can be performed but management of the vertical plane should use another flight technique (vertical speed (V/S) or flight path angle (FPA).
Pilots should then apply the cold temperature corrections necessary to comply with the different published minimum altitudes, i.e.:
- The altitude heights for the final segment (FAF, SDF, altitude/distance table);
- The MDA/H; and
- The V/S and/or FPA values. "

JammedStab 17th Dec 2015 17:45


Originally Posted by Goldenrivett (Post 9213195)
This document http://www.developpement-durable.gou...NSS__ENGv3.pdf says that no temperature corrections are required if the airport is at or above the minimum published on the chart.

If the temperature is below the published minimum then:
"7.5.4 Case of temperatures below minimum temperatures published on the approach chart

On the RNAV(GNSS) approach charts for which there is an APV BaroVNAV approach (presence of LNAV/VNAV minima), a minimum temperature use is published.
As a general rule, pilots should not use the FMS (Baro)VNAV function when the temperature is below the temperature limit published on the approach chart.
The associated non-precision approach (LNAV) can be performed but management of the vertical plane should use another flight technique (vertical speed (V/S) or flight path angle (FPA).
Pilots should then apply the cold temperature corrections necessary to comply with the different published minimum altitudes, i.e.:
- The altitude heights for the final segment (FAF, SDF, altitude/distance table);
- The MDA/H; and
- The V/S and/or FPA values. "

That is interesting. But it leaves things potentially open to interpretation. They should specifically mention whether the MDA needs to have a temperature correction as this is very important.

Goldenrivett 17th Dec 2015 20:36


They should specifically mention whether the MDA needs to have a temperature correction
You should find that clarification in your company OPS Manual.
Ours says:

"Low Altitude Temperature Corrections
..... These corrections must be applied, as appropriate, when conducting an instrument approach:

To DA (except Baro-VNAV procedures that are published with a temperature limit) and MDA. ...."

JammedStab 17th Dec 2015 21:19


Originally Posted by Goldenrivett (Post 9213759)
You should find that clarification in your company OPS Manual.
Ours says:

"Low Altitude Temperature Corrections
..... These corrections must be applied, as appropriate, when conducting an instrument approach:

To DA (except Baro-VNAV procedures that are published with a temperature limit) and MDA. ...."

Thanks,

But I want official government publication info. I find that ops manuals tend to have a much higher rate of erronous info based on the individuals misinterpreting official information.

Goldenrivett 17th Dec 2015 22:25

Hi JammedStab,

But I want official government publication info
Will Jeppesen do?
http://www.jeppesen.com/download/bri...en00-arnav.pdf See Page 8
"Cold Temperature Limitations. Considering the pronounced effect of nonstandard temperature on BARO-VNAV operations, a minimum temperature limitation will be published for each procedure for which BARO-VNAV operations are eligible.
This temperature represents the airport temperature below which use of the BAROVNAV will not be authorized to the LNAV/VNAV minimums."

777AV8R 18th Dec 2015 04:21

Reference Documentation and Cold Weather Ops
 
The reference document for the construction and operational use of BARO-VNAV and temperature limits is: ICAO Doc 8168. For those of you who are using Jepp FD or Jepp FD Pro, this document is available in the manual list. The manuals located inside should be read. There is a wealth of information contained therein.

Jepp. is NOT regulatory material, it so happens that they produce material based on what regulatory and SARPS promulgate.

I've quoted most of the information here directly from Doc 8168.

In essence, when the procedure designers build an approach for BARO/VNAV, limited temperature effects are accounted for on the descent segment. The temperature limits are there to protect the shallow gradients during a managed or IAN type approach. That said however; the DH/DA/MDAs still must be accounted for with the correct non-standard temperature corrections found in the tables. If the temperature is outside of the published limits then the procedure can still be flown but not managed or IAN and all the altitudes in the descent must be corrected for temperature error.

Some aircraft equipment are certified to calculate their own corrections from the FMS to certain limits. If that is the case, then other corrections can be disregarded as long as the temperatures being flown are within the certification limits of the installed equipment.

This is directly from ICAO Doc: 8168

1.2.2 Atmospheric effects

1.2.2.1 Atmospheric errors associated with non-standard temperatures are considered in the design of the approach obstacle clearance surface. When temperatures are lower than standard, the aircraft’s true altitude will be lower than its barometric indicated altitudes.

1.2.2.2 Most existing VNAV systems do not correct for non-standard temperatures. At temperatures below standard, these errors can be significant and increase in magnitude as altitude above the station increases. The gradient of the approach obstacle clearance surface is reduced as a function of the minimum temperature promulgated for the procedure.
Note.— International Standard Atmosphere (ISA) temperature is 15°C at sea level with a lapse rate of 2°C per 1 000 ft of altitude.

1.2.3 Along-track position uncertainty
All RNAV systems have some amount of along-track error. This along-track uncertainty can mean that the VNAV system will start the descent too early and result in an error in the vertical path. This is compensated for in procedure design by relocating the threshold level origin of the approach obstacle clearance surface.

1.2.4 Flight technical error (FTE)
Flight technical error (FTE) is assumed to be contained within the standard non-precision margin of 75 m (246 ft). This is added below the VPA before the obstacle clearance surface is adjusted for cold temperature and along-track error.

1.2.5 Other system errors
Other errors include static source error, non-homogenous weather phenomena and latency effects. These are insignificant compared with the other errors already addressed and are considered as contained within the existing margin.

1.2.6 Blunder errors
Application of an incorrect or out-of-date altimeter setting, either by air traffic control or the pilot, is possible and must be prevented by appropriate operational techniques.

1.3 EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS
1.3.1 APV/baro-VNAV procedures are intended for use by aircraft equipped with flight management systems (FMS) or other RNAV systems capable of computing barometric VNAV paths and displaying the relevant deviations on the instrument display.

1.3.2 Aircraft equipped with APV/baro-VNAV systems that have been approved by the State of the Operator for the appropriate level of lateral navigation (LNAV)/VNAV operations may use these systems to carry out APV/baro- VNAV approaches provided that:

a) the navigation system has a certificated performance equal to or less than 0.6 km (0.3 NM), with 95 per cent probability. This includes:

1) GNSS navigation systems certified for approach operations;

2) multi-sensor systems using inertial reference units in combination with certified DME/DME or GNSS; and 3) RNP systems approved for RNP 0.3 operations or less;

b) the APV/baro-VNA V equipment is serviceable;

c) the aircraft and aircraft systems are appropriately certified for the intended APV/baro-VNAV approach operations;

d) the aircraft is equipped with an integrated LNAV/VNAV system with an accurate source of barometric altitude; and

e) the VNAV altitudes and all relevant procedural and navigational information are retrieved from a navigation database whose integrity is supported by appropriate quality assurance measures.

Note.— Acceptable means of compliance can be found in documents such as the United States Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) Advisory Circular (AC) 20-138, AC 20-130A and AC 120-29.

1.3.3 Where LNAV/baro-VNAV procedures are promulgated, the approach area has been assessed for obstacles penetrating the Annex 14 inner approach, inner transitional and balked landing surfaces. If obstacles penetrate these surfaces, a restriction is placed on the minimum value of OCA/H permitted (see 1.1.5).

1.4 OPERATIONAL CONSTRAINTS

1.4.1 Pilots are responsible for any necessary cold temperature corrections to all published minimum altitudes/heights. This includes:

a) the altitudes/heights for the initial and intermediate segment(s);

b) the DA/H; and

c) subsequent missed approach altitudes/heights.

Note.— The final approach path VPA is safeguarded against the effects of low temperature by the design of the procedure.

1.4.2 Temperatures below the promulgated minimum
Baro-VNAV procedures are not permitted when the aerodrome temperature is below the promulgated minimum aerodrome temperature for the procedure, unless the flight management system (FMS) is equipped with approved cold temperature compensation for the final approach. In this case, the minimum temperature can be disregarded provided it is within the minimum certificated temperature limits for the equipment. Below this temperature, and for aircraft that do not have FMSs equipped with approved cold temperature compensation for the final approach, an LNAV procedure may still be used provided that:

a) a conventional RNAV non-precision procedure and APV/LNAV OCA/H are promulgated for the approach; and

b) the appropriate cold temperature altimeter correction is applied to all minimum promulgated altitudes/heights by the pilot.

1.4.3 A VPA deviation chart may be published on baro-VNAV instrument procedure charts, correlating an aerodrome temperature with an associated true VPA. This chart is intended to advise flight crews that although the non- temperature compensated aircraft’s avionics system may be indicating the promulgated final approach VPA, the actual VPA is different from the information presented to them by the system.

1.4.4 This chart is not intended to have the pilot increase or decrease the VPA flown to achieve the actual promulgated VPA. A sample of the chart is provided in Table II-4-1-1.

1.4.5 Some baro-VNAV systems have the capability to correctly compensate the VPA of an instrument approach procedure following an input of the aerodrome (altimeter source) temperature by the pilot. Pilots operating aircraft with this feature active are expected to ignore the VPA chart and fly the system-corrected VPA guidance

I hope that helps. Doc 8168 contains a wealth of information including correct entry procedures for conducting GNSS approaches, something that many still misunderstand.

So, when sitting there in the middle of the night as you're hauling *ss across the NOPAC/SOPAC/NATS or POLAR, haul out the manual and have a look. That's flying!
Seasons Greetings and a safe flying for New Year 2016 to all.

JammedStab 18th Dec 2015 16:00

Thanks. The way I interpret the above, is that regardless of the type of Baro-VNAV approach being performed, corrections must be made to all published minimum altitudes/heights.

777AV8R 18th Dec 2015 16:51

Corrections to Altitudes/Heights
 
If you are under radar control, there is no need to correct for vectoring altitudes. If you are cleared for a full procedure approach (complete with procedure turn) but you are under radar control, there is no need for corrections for procedure turn altitudes It is good airmanship to be aware of what the correction is, in case of LossComms or automation difficulties.

If using BARO/VNAV andyou are within the temperature limit of the approach, you may descend on the vertical descent path established either 'managed, VNAV/IAN' without having to make any corrections, however; it is a good idea to know what these corrections are (in the case of DME fix or FAF), in-case there is a failure of the automation and you're able to maintain a vertical descent using an alternative method (VS).

What MUST be done is: The DH/MDA/DA must be corrected for temperature for the approach, otherwise you could reach minimums and actually be below the obstruction clearance altitude (due to altimeter error).

If the OAT is colder than the Limit Temperature, the procedure cannot be flown using the automation and an alternative approach would be selected using a constant descent profile...good old VS!

Previously I mentioned referenced Regulatory material...ICAO is NOT regulator, it provides Standards and Recommended Practices (SARPS). From ICAO's documentation and technical publications, performance engineers and procedures engineers develop approach profiles that meet local regulatory requirements.

I hope that helps.

FlightDetent 18th Dec 2015 17:33

Thank you very much. I think your post is true in every word. Also, the only correct one so far!: O

underfire 18th Dec 2015 20:18

terpster is correct.

Temperature limits are listed for non-compensated baro, and the cold limit on a 3 degree glideslope is 2.71 degrees.

What is also important are the associated ROC per segment. Initial segments have a 1000' ROC, the intermediate has a 500' ROC, final approach segment tapers from 500' ROC to a 200' ROC. (assuming non-mountanous)

The FAA, in the design criteria, adjusts the FAS ROC per the coldest anticipated temperature at airport, but NOT the intermediate segment, or more important, the missed approach segment(s).
This is important to know when it gets colder, how important the obstacle clearance reduction is, especially with terrain.

Custom criteria may go further in the obstacle clearance criteria with temperature, especially when OEI procedures are considered.

In consideration of the design criteria, the FAA has a special Cold Temp Restricted Airports list, with special instructions.

ICAO criteria in general, looks more like the special cold restictions

Notices to Airmen Cold Temp − Restricted Airports
GENERAL 4−GEN−15

Pilots must make an altitude correction to the published, “at”, “at or above” and “at or below” altitudes on designated segment(s) (see list below), on all published procedures and runways, when the reported airport temperature is at or below the published airport cold temperature restriction.

Pilots without temperature compensating aircraft are responsible to calculate and make a manual cold temperature altitude correction to the designated segment(s) of the approach using the AIM 7-2-3, ICAO Cold Temperature Error Table.

Pilots with temperature compensating aircraft must ensure the system is on and operating for each segment requiring an altitude correction. Pilots must ensure they are flying at corrected altitude. If the system is not operating, the pilot is responsible to calculate and apply a manual cold weather altitude correction using the AIM 7-2-3 ICAO Cold Temperature Error Table. PILOTS SHOULD NOT MAKE AN ALTIMETER CHANGE to accomplish an altitude correction.

Pilots must report cold temperature corrected altitudes to Air Traffic Control (ATC) whenever applying a cold temperature correction on an intermediate segment and/or a published missed approach final altitude. This should be done on initial radio contact with the ATC issuing approach clearance. ATC requires this information in order to ensure appropriate vertical separation between known traffic.

Pilots must not apply cold temperature compensation to ATC assigned altitudes or when flying on radar vectors in lieu of a published missed approach procedure.

Pilots should query ATC when vectors to an intermediate segment are lower than the requested intermediate segment altitude corrected for temperature.

Pilots are encouraged to self-announce corrected altitude when flying into uncontrolled airfields.

JammedStab 19th Dec 2015 00:13


Originally Posted by FlightDetent (Post 9214633)
Thank you very much. I think your post is true in every word. Also, the only correct one so far!: O

Mine is as well, correct the minimum altitudes.

aterpster 19th Dec 2015 01:06

JammedStab:


Mine is as well, correct the minimum altitudes.
So was mine. :)

But, mine was limited to FAA-land.

To repeat myself, in FAA-land Baro VNAV final approach segment temperature limits are different than procedural altitude corrections for cold temperature. :ugh:

longobard 19th Dec 2015 03:57

Regulatory material
 
Guys, I opened the thread with both
ICAO SARPS references AND
EASA regulatory, but not exclusive, references (AMC 20-27)

Said that...I made reference to the new Airbus getting to grips with cold wx Ops,which clearly contrast to EASA AMC...

Company OMs can be on one side or the other but if I have to choose, I would preferably stay more on the safe side (EASA) than Airbus interpretation.

underfire 19th Dec 2015 07:45

With the line breaks, the OP is a bit difficult to read.

It is important to know, depending on the procedure type, and which criteria, which segments are compensated for, and which one are not.

In reading through the sections, I am not sure I see a conflict...The EASA is a bit more comprehensive...

flyburg 19th Dec 2015 20:41

Copied straight from my FCOM bulletin regarding RNAV GNSS approaches:

Cold Temperature Altitude Corrections
In the design of RNP APCH APV procedures with LNAV/VNAV minima, the
allowable temperature range is specified and the procedure design accounts for
operations and obstacle clearance for any temperature within the specified range
on the approach plate. If the actual temperature is within the specified temperature
range the pilot can fly the RNP APCH APV procedure and no temperature
corrections are needed. If the actual temperature is outside the specified
temperature range, the crew cannot fly the RNP APCH APV procedure.
In this case an RNP APCH NPA procedure with LNAV minima may be used and
the altitude constraints at FMC waypoints on the final approach need to be
modified according BOM 8.3-3, as the procedure design does not take
temperature variations into account.
For both RNP APCH APV (LNAV/VNAV minima) and RNP APCH NPA (LNAV
minima) approaches, the initial, intermediate and missed approach segment flight
plan fixes need to be corrected for cold temperature.
Note: DA/MDA must also be corrected for low temperatures


Makes perfect sense to me!!

Note: in case the temp is below the min temp specified, you can still fly the approach with LNAV and VNAV modes!!! Just not to LNAV/VNAV minima, but to LNAV minima raised for cold wx corrections.
(When temp is below 0 but above temp specified for LNAV/VNAV minima, you still have to raise the LNAV/VNAV minima)


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