With regard to reading back only the numbers and leaving out the rest of it, I once heard an exchange something like the following (details changed to protect the guilty) :-

"xxxx 321, turn left heading 120 degrees, speed 180 knots, descend flight level 130 and contact Director on 123.45"
"12018013012345321 - what a load of b******s!"

Sorry, for me it doesn't add to the clarity or (therefore) safety.

Further to Rune Radar said

250 KIAS below 10K not actually applied for whole world, you guys haven't mentioned allowed 270KIAS below 3 thousand meters over Russia ;) they all rather will be thanksfull to you not stucking down to 250 knots having Tupolev behind you at the same time.... hehehe :D

Maybe the extended readbacks in Lax are a result of Europeans experiences in LAX. I have had 2 near-misses and 10 TCAS RAs operating into LAX in 5 years all caused by gash operators. Half have been some bloody puddle-jumper trying to formate on my wing on finals to give their pax a view.

P.S. Considering the majority of worldwide accidents are CFIT, I think altimeter readbacks are a great idea (and SHOULD be checked by US ATC!!)

Right way up
Sorry but you hit one of my pet peeves, a near miss is a hit.

I operate in and out of LAX two to four times a day, you sir just have bad luck.

Proper R/T procedures and phraseology are an absolute must. It’s easy to lose site of this if you are working in a local environment in your own language, but for the rest of the aviation world, English may not be their first language.

Not everyone works in inches mercury for altimeters, Mb's and Hpa’s are the norm outside North America. Transition levels are not the straight forward 18,000 feet as well as the use of feet or meters.

My rule of thumb; always convey R/T, checklist challenge and response as though the recipient does not speak English as their first language. In other words, clear, concise and standard.

I think you may find that under airmanship somewhere.

Cheers,

The distinction relates to the traffic environment.

In the US there may be VFR traffic in the 'CAS' system, working on 'see and avoid'. Therefore, ATC cannot relax the 250kts speed restriction.

In the UK, Class A airspace is an environment in which all traffic is (a) known and (b) controlled, so 'see and avoid' is unnecessary (though it remains the final means of avoiding collisions, as the UKAB constantly reminds us), therefore, the speed restriction may be relaxed by ATC.

The pilot is at all times responsible for navigating the aircraft and for complying with SID tracks, though he is not provided with the relevant information to do this (in sufficient detail).

The pilot does, in the circumstances in which 'No ATC speed restriction' has been communicated, retain the right to fly at standard speeds. We should bear in mind that the ANO says, basically, that the speed restriction is 250kts below FL100. If a policeman told you 'you may drive along the motorway at 100mph' would you do it?

Hope this helps. It's worth trying to hang onto the 'big picture' before reaching for the books.

Boofy sounds pretty good to me, just one note of caution- On departures to the west from LA, the Class B airspace extends to about 16dme LAX vor, So if you are doing the Perch departure, might be better to wait until then to clean up, rather than relying on being outside the USA contigous zone (12nm). Speed increase to Maouvering speed 'Flaps up' is what is on offer, when offered no speed restrictions. As stated the controller has no authority to cancel speed requirements, he/she is really just saying THEY have no objection.

No speed restriction on climbout in Europe or other areas outside the U.S. seems nice, but in some areas, especially Houston, I wouldn't accept it due to the fact it is on a major migratory bird route. Since we weren't given any guidance by ATC,FAA or my company on the seasonal bird patterns, I'd take a vector off course and let the guy behind me do a Boeing windshield test.

Until there is more guidance and research on the subject, I'll pass on the warp speed climb.


My company had a B767-300ER out of CDG going through a flock of something at around 12,000. They were most likely 340 kts +, bird parts penetrated the cockpit and various wing and engine points. No injuries, safe landing. From the pictures of the aircraft nose area, it looked like a FW-190 made a head on pass with the cannons. ;)

I heard of a UAL 757 Jumping straight out of LAX and maintaining 6000ft/min climb profile at one point :eek: ..check out www.airliners.net forums for more details,got a photo of instrument display VSI,350 kts,got to cruising altitude quickly needless to say!!!

In the UK..i`m not sure how accurate it is,I was a passenger on a Virgin 747-400,G-VROY,and after t/o they put on the skymap.
On there it displays altitude,airspeed and outside temperature,aswell as a cool mini-map of where your going!maybe scroggs could tell how accurate it is,but after t/o,bound for KMCO,at 4000ft we were at 330 kts according to the sky map,and weren`t on a SID as far as I could tell,think the only SID from EGKK from 26L west is SAM(2M)???

So yeah..the 250 rule can be broken it seems...

Stephen.

Another reason you can bust 250kts below FL100 is:-
If ATC give you a radar heading or a direct to, followed by "No ATC speed restriction." You aint on a SID anymore so you have no speed limit.
With regard to the 330kts at 4000ft on the Virgin B747-400:- Not sure you would need a 747 pilot to tell us what the bird strike speed limit is. On the B757 is is a maximum of 313kts below 8000ft. This then becomes OUR max speed until we climb above 8000ft.
Eff Oh. :)

Changing slightly the direction of the topic. But, what is the standard pilot RT call to 'no speed restriction'. Most times I hear 'no speed' or 'own speed'. I kinda prefer 'own speed' since 'no speed' does sound silly to me. Am I wrong?