You must quote in context chap. That context being - I do not have to do a visual approach just because you want me to. I'm perfectly entitled to fly the full flight plan including the arrival and approach if I want to.

As is everybody else. Really disgusting.

LMS
 

The sentence I quoted is quite clear. It does not say that you just want to follow your own plan; you have every right to do that. What it says is that you "shall make sure that" the other guy has to waste resources.

That sentence is in response to another post, the one I quoted, telling everyone not to turn down the offer of a visual approach.

Which, according to you, I have every right to do. So what's the beef?

No John, I haven't stated it was part of my approach planning. As you can see I said maybe that's what they did. When I said "I do that sometimes" I meant that I won't be forced into a visual approach just because I can hear the exasperated cries of Mr Rush behind us.

If you burn more fuel or get wound up as a by product of that then I don't care. If you think I'm going to go visual just so you don't get wound up or burn more fuel or because you are in a rush then you're wrong. So yes I'll make sure it happens by flying the approach the way I've planned to. However, I did say sometimes so if I'm with a decent FO and\or we've briefed or we're familiar enough then I will accept a visual. But not because you think I should because you're late, or whatever.

You say it's unprofessional yet you also say nobody should be bullied into a visual.

I don't handfly whole sectors but if a portion of the flight has some little trickier portions I try to handfly them raw data as often as possible depending on the captain on the flight. I fly the 737.

For instance tight DME arcs when there's a lot of wind, complex transitions with many letdowns having course and navaidchanges etc so I have to scan the approach plate as well, scanning simply instruments is not that stimulating. Otherwise I don't handily normal portions of the flight that I've been doing millions of time more than a few times a month. I'm busy fighting severe complacency :8

Oh for the days when I'd go and do six 52 mile sectors in the morning in a DC-9.

Being a green and keen F/O in those days I never turned on the autopilot. Jaded skippers did, but not for long, takeoff to touchdown was about 12 minutes at 250 knots and 11 minutes at 320 knots.

It almost seemed like one continuous reading of the checklist from start to finish.

And when your navigation equipment consisted of 2 VOR's and 2 ADF's you could have your airplane set up for the return flight in under a minute.

YEAR 5s GETTING OUT OF ORDER?!
 

Now now class, settle down and be quiet and serious.

You 2 in the back row please stop comparing :mad: size and try to concentrate!!!

The OP raised a very interesting and potentially informative thread and some of you have descended into behaviour more suitable for behind the bike sheds than the sort of conduct we expect in this schools debating society.

Horrors, some airline management and regulators may even now be reading this, and we complain about a lack of respect and remuneration in our various form levels?!

Now let's have some calm reflection and thinking and try to persuade the head that we actually deserve to go on the school trip to the airport and see the planes and be allowed to visit the control tower, otherwise it will be detention for ALL of you ! ! ! ! ! ! :rolleyes:

I think a whipping with a disconnected auto throttle would be in order first. :}

First of all Barkingmad :p:p:p na naaaaa na naaaa naaaaaa :p:p:p You've got to catch me first:E

I appreciate I'm generally off the original topic although it has stemmed from a post concerning that topic and that's just the way most threads go anyway.

I'll be quiet when people stop calling me unprofessional and disgusting and offer me a realistic alternative to the situation(s) I have described. Which they haven't, not one.

Just wondering if P-RNAV SID and STAR are also flown without FDs?

Could be.. keeping within +/- 1 nm of the magenta line is not that difficult.

Sure, why not? The navigation performance scales in the PFD tell you exactly how you are doing vs the required navigation performance. Not any issue at all if you are a pilot and not just a glorified system manager.

Nice! I'll try that on my next flight if the capt allows it. All I've been so far is a glorified system manager, that's about to change.

Not an airliner pilot guys, just a normal GA guy but looking at it from my side I recently flew a 172 back from somewhere in **** weather getting tossed around in IMC at a whole FL50. I then flew a PAR which was a break off because some lost clown wandered across the approach, then had another go, broke out at minimums and plonked it down in pissing down rain and a xw gusting above a/c limits.. After a minute to chill after I shut down I walked into the club and asked 'How much would it cost to get a f****** autopilot fitted to that thing.'

Just saying.

And before someone says 'You should have stayed on the ground in the first place'...yeah, I know, but the weather man he tells lies and I don't have instant weather readouts or weather radars and all the other good **** you guys have. It was not an instance where my superior knowledge kept me out of a situation requiring the use of my superior skills...

Be thankful you have all the toys to play with. I know you are commercial pilots and a world away from what I do but it wasn't always like that. I take it you've all read 'Fate Is The Hunter'?

thing

I take it you are in europe?


anyway, I know of a case of a brand new NON instrument rated pilot with a great new piper turbo arrow...full autopilot and nav package, deluxe.

was flying back from oregon to california...at night...went into a towering cu/thunderhead/lightning.

plane broke apart

now, I'm not blaming the plane or the autopilot...but the autopilot may have had too much and the pilot (biological) may have over controlled the plane.

you have had a good experience...hang on to it and the confidence...then use wisdom to avoid the same situation.


AS to the real question, you should hand fly enough ''sectors" (here in the USA, we say LEGS) so that you can handle all situations without an autopilot.

In UK flare pilot.

Mate of mine flies 74's for BA and I'm sure he hand flies every third approach, which for him is probably once a month. Don't know anything about BA but I got the impression it was company policy.

As for your Piper turbo pilot I find it worrying that SEP's are getting to the same level of sophistication as airliners. Guys go on courses to learn the ins and outs of Garmin 1000's etc. At the end of the day it's an SEP, keep your eyes out of the cockpit where they belong and fly the bloody aeroplane, it's not an Airbus. Having said that there have been the odd occassions where I would have welcomed a simple course hold autopilot, not because the a/c is getting ahead of me in foul weather but it just frees up a bit of capacity that you may need.

Don't know how old you are but do you remember when we all magically managed without mobile phones? Now if I get down the road and mrs thing has forgotten hers we have to go back for it. Same with tech, soon guys won't get into their Saratoga or whatever without a GPS or synthetic vision etc. They still crash. Mainly because the warm and safe feeling that all of this tech gives them removes them from the fact that they are flying two tons of metal at 150 kts through the air, relying on nothing more than physics and a single propellor and engine to keep them alive.

hi thing

the piper accident happened about 30 years ago...still had an autopilot ;-)

I do agree, an autopilot to keep the wings level, couple an approach or to nav/heading and hold pitch if not altitude is nice

but, its like an escalator in a department store (what do you call an escalator in england?)...if you use it every day, you will forget how to use stairs.

I like having a mobile phone with me in case my modern car breaks down.

using an autopilot is a reward for hand flying alot~!

We call an escalator an escalator..

However your elevator is actually a lift. I don't know, we gave you a perfectly good language and you have to screw it up..:)

Careful there thing! The Americans actually speak a more perfect form of English than we British do! British English has been bastardised by much European influence! :)