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-   -   How many sectors do you handfly? (https://www.pprune.org/tech-log/506383-how-many-sectors-do-you-handfly.html)

Speedwinner 27th Jan 2013 17:31

How many sectors do you handfly?
Hello friends,

just a little question: How many sectors do you handfly without FD and AP and ATHR to stay in practice? Im talking about normal Ops, no low vis etc. I used to fly as much as i can, but unfortunately the airbus is operated with max use of equipment .


H. Hughes 27th Jan 2013 19:16

PRNAV required and RVSM
Id love to handfly more to keep my skills, it is also encouraged in our OM-A to do so if WX/Airspace permits and you are aware of the increased workload on Pilot Monitoring.

However, as 90% of all SIDs and STARs we fly is PRNAV required we have to use the FD. And with RVSM also the Autopilot above 280. Have flown a few short sectors below FL280 with visual departure and arrival/approach by hand with no use of FD and Autopilot, great fun and wish there were more opportunities.

It should be realized though that in todays airspace there is a safety gain from the increased situational awareness and reduced workload that comes from utilizing the automatics. Just as long as one selects the proper level of automation for the task at hand, and have the skill to do it without need be. Just search on youtube for: "Children of the magenta line" And you will see what Im on about.

fantom 27th Jan 2013 19:46

without FD and AP and ATHR
Airbus? Are you joking?

Do not do it.

Office Pest 27th Jan 2013 19:49

Personally - if the conditions are fine and the other chap is happy I try to do one a day.

A791E 27th Jan 2013 20:01

Why not hand-flying an airbus?

misd-agin 27th Jan 2013 20:09

Without A/T's? Every landing.
Without FD? Never. Ignore the FD? Every flight. :ok:

Check Airman 27th Jan 2013 20:58

If you mean hand flying the entire flight, I've only ever done it twice.

I do turn off the all the automation between 10k and 20k every few weeks though.

bubbers44 27th Jan 2013 21:12

So you are just flying a heading and attitude? 10,000 ft and below is where Manual hand flying should keep up your flying skills. The day your automation fails you need these skills to do an approach and land. It is the way we always did it.

bubbers44 27th Jan 2013 21:24

That means no AT, AP, or FD. It is quite easy because we all did it 10 years ago with no problem. I am sure we could have flown the Airbus the same way unless it doesn't fly like a real airplane like Boeing.

Robert G Mugabe 27th Jan 2013 21:27

You Kids

You still actually believe in flying


When you need to do it react and base it on previous experience. Oh hang on .....

Denti 27th Jan 2013 21:31

Flying full sectors without FD, AP, AT? Did around twice a day a few years ago, but nowadays im too lazy, its usually just til climb speed is on past 10k and then somewhere below 20k off and the rest manually. However, without FD? Quite often actually, the whole flight. Don't need it for the AP and not for manual flight anyway.

bubbers44 27th Jan 2013 22:24

I thought I would get a lot of hate mail over the anti Airbus coments but didn't. I just don't think Airbus should be making pilots button pushers and lose their flying skills. Most of them have already, unless they went to the airport and did it on their own. AF447 showed the loss of their flying skills flying the Airbus. They turned a simple loss of airspeed into a deep stall for no reason. We need to go back to where pilots were pilots, not computer operators.

misd-agin 28th Jan 2013 00:17

It's not only an Airbus issue. It's more a company SOP based issue.

captjns 28th Jan 2013 01:39

I'm lucky to be on the Boeing. On a four sector day, I offer my FOs the opportunity To give the autopilot a day off from work so they can manually fly the jet from T/O to RVSM. Then from TOD to landing. FDs and A/T at their discretion. VMC is not required either:ok:.

Intruder 28th Jan 2013 01:40

Not to mention FARs: RVSM, RNAV Sids & STARs, Q Routes...

Microburst2002 28th Jan 2013 03:05


What's the problem. I have flown several zero automation flights in the bus. It is a delight.


What boeing are you taliing about, 737, 747, ,757, 767... Or flybywire 777 and 787?

Airbus is a real airplane. What would make it unreal? Fbw?

All boeings have automation. Continuous use of automation degrades hand flying skills, no matter what the model is.

Company policy and captain's attitude towards hand flying will determine the degree of hand skills in a given company. Not the model.

bubbers44 28th Jan 2013 05:15

By choice I just flew Boeing aircraft so never flew an Airbus. Airbus pilots on this site keep saying you need to leave the automation on. I was wondering why the Airbus had to be flown differently. Is it because they are taught to never hand fly? Why can us Boeing guys hand fly the whole flight if we choose to but the Airbus guys need automation?

bubbers44 28th Jan 2013 05:19

To answer your question, 737, 757, 767. MD 80 also now.

autoflight 28th Jan 2013 06:49

AP on immediately after take-off with auto land, where possible, should be considered normal. This allows PF to view the complete picture and manage the flight. Most I ever did was hand fly from 10 thousand ft or hand fly with double FMGC failure.

A more important question would be, how many sectors do you give to your F/O? And do you set conditions that make him/her feel that the sector really is PF without undue prompting? On a 5 sector day do you ever give F/O 4 sectors? Do you make F/O feel like a valuable crew member? My experience with F/O reaction was that they seldom got this consideration.

As captain, if you are mostly far removed from these principles, reconsideration is due.

OPEN DES 28th Jan 2013 07:18

How many sectors do you handfly?

I always fly rawdata with a/thr off. I disconnect between 5000-10000ft, when it starts to get interesting. Except LVO or when something else is going on. Beware of copycat behaviour though.......

A320 TRE

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