CSMU of SSFDR
 

Nick L,

Please comment on:

http://www51.honeywell.com/aero/comm...er_(SSFDR).pdf

Rgds,

Mac

CSMU of 4700 SSFDR
 

Nick L,

Please inform the url links to clarify the issue!

Rgds,

Mac

Has anyone else spotted that in the bottom left hand corner of this BEA picture from the ship's control centre, on the floor next to the operator there is an FDR in a case?

http://www.bea.aero/fr/enquetes/vol....mages/fdr3.jpg

Is this simply to show what they are looking for?

Centrosphere
 

Re. the former suggestions of picture alteration please notice from this and this picture that they share some properties with the earlier picture of the FDR chassis:

- a clear difference in color tint between the blueish left side and the greenish right side of the picture, with the border line running roughly diagonally. This suggests that the ROV's searchlight lamps are of different color temperature (and intensity).

- On the right-hand screen shown in the second picture, the center of the picture has low contrast and shows few features ("vanishing shadows effect") while out to the sides there are more shadows and more pronounced contrasts. Just as in the picture of the FDR chassis.

Conclusion: The equipment is not 100% perfect, but there is little to suggest any special editing of the earlier image.

Just my 2 cents :ok:

Your link is from a COMBI
 

Henra,

https://commerce.honeywell.com/wcsstore/B2BDirectMyAerospaceAssetStore/images/catalog/SSFDR_800x800.jpg


Read the label in the box!

Digital voice data recorder (combi)

AF447 used the LONG model. This is the short one.

Mac

I plead guilty. It was sarcastic ;)
Let's say it's a way of preemptively couper l'herbe sous le pied of conspirationnists.

Guilty too !!
 

I was in the same mood as AlphaZuluRomeo :O

RR_NDB,
That was the data sheet I was referring to. On Figure 1, the annotated drawing shows "ED-55/56a Crash Survivable Memory Unit (CSMU) (1X or 2X model)". That indicates to me that the CSMU depicted in that drawing is representative only of a 1X or 2X model SSFDR.

If we go to Section 8.0, we see that they have described the "4X" model SSFDR, with part numbers 980-4700-04X. This is presumably a newer model of SSFDR than what is shown in the diagram. According to the BEA reports, this is the type of SSFDR that was aboard F-GZCP. It is possible that the Honeywell data sheet is not fully up to date (it is dated March 2000) as there are no diagrams for the "4X" SSFDR.


If we take a look at the Brazilian authorities' report into the Gol 1907/N600XL collision here:
http://www.ntsb.gov/Aviation/Brazil-...sh_version.pdf

(I know I keep harping on about the Gol mid-air collision, but it was the most recent accident for which I knew what the FDR looked like)

In section 3.11, "Flight Recorders", on pages 62 and 63, we see in Table 14 that both PR-GTD and N600XL were equipped with the same, Honeywell model 980-4700-042, recorders as F-GZCP. The photos of the SSFDRs (Figures 16 and 17) from both aircraft show cylindrical CSMUs, which match what the BEA recovered.

Henra and Nick L,

Look:

http://50.img.v4.skyrock.com/50c/avi...s/14832296.jpg

Has anyone noticed the attachment points for the brackets holding the now missing ULB!

The pic below has been cropped from the BEA's high resolution image. I assume that the tensile strength of the attachment bolts is designed so that failure will occur without internal damage to the container.

http://oi54.tinypic.com/2zzkr36.jpg

CSMU geometries
 

@ RR_NDB

Please take a look at this picture from the BEA website (here : Information, 27 avril 2011 - FR version, EN briefing also available)

The HiRes pic allows us to read what's written on the right side of the "chassis" :
SOLID STATE MEMORY FLIGHT DATA RECORDER.

So what ?

CSMU
 

For sure!

Question: Is this a CSMU of a FDR or CVR?

I hope they weigh the module and very carefully record its serial numbers before popping it into the Court representative's sealed satchel for transport back to France. That would give some idea of the state of the contents and help deflect potential conspiracy theorists.:hmm:

Good job on the part of the recovery crew. :ok:

After seeing the beat up DFDR chassis with the missing memory module, I was not too surprised by the missing pinger. But the design needs rethinking. For Sure!

RR_NDB
I thought you "knew" which it was.:}

Yes, in the meantime I have seen it myself.

:O

Still, I'm convinced that the more square shaped CSMu are simply older generation and that CVR and DFDR share the same type of CSMU.
Back in 'net fishing for pics...

Edit:

At least I found a pic of the CSMU on the Honeywell page.
The most recent ones seem to be cylindrical and they describe it as memory for the SSFDR.
Solid State Flight Data Recorder - Honeywell Aerospace
Could be still a wrong image though.

FDR
 

Has anybody noticed the third picture released today from BEA actually has a FDR on the floor in the bottom left of the image. (In a glass case)
http://www.bea.aero/fr/enquetes/vol....mages/fdr3.jpg

Perhaps this was an example for them to see what they were looking for, or is this the actual recovered item?

Snowfalcon2,

Yes, I do agree that these new samples show many similarities to the older one. I think we can put the image manipulation theory to rest for a while.:ok:

Sample . . .
 

Swedishflyingkiwi,

Must be a sample. Note the paper in the container, under the unit. It would be kept in water if a recovered unit.

What happens next?

Will the Ile de Sein steam to nearest port to offload the FDR CSMU or will the BEA try to extract the data while on the ship?

Will they continue search for the CVR, or is the FDR important enough for the ship to head for port? Or are there other ships in the area that can transport the FDR ashore?

I guess the site is far enough offshore that a helicopter is not of much use.

Swedishflyingkiwi,

I also believe it to be a sample. This rises an interesting question: these monitors must be located somewhere at the ship, where, maybe, other people analyzes the images from the ROV. It makes sense, because the operator of the ROV must be too busy to operate the equipment and still search for anything. Alas, the two monitors show the same scene from different POVs, what is consistent with the REMORA 6000 specs (two cameras). I would like to know if this is real time or not.

Fine business from Nick L 1st May 2011 17:36
 

Nick L,

I invite you to be in my craft as a crew member!

Bingo!

mm43
"I assume that the tensile strength of the attachment bolts is designed so that failure will occur without internal damage to the container."

Yep. For example, the bracket that attaches the SLB (Sonar Locating Beacon) to the ADR of a Tornado A/C [SLB introduced by a MOD many years ago] has specific shimming requirements to allow the maximum "grasp" whilst being able to separate, in extremis, without leading to data section penetration or further damage. The drive unit etc are expendable.

PS just re read your post and on looking at the enlargement there appears to be some visual evidence of possible penetration at the case circumfrence.

Whatever, some great news indeed, fingers crossed.

Snowfalcon2,

I think I remember to read somewhere that a frigate or other ship would be used to transport the FDR and the CVR to the continent.

Both equipments are too important to they dare to transport it by chopper. Besides, I think that the Ile de Sein has not an helipont.

Centrosphere
Yes, after more thought it certainly looks like this is a "live review" room on the ship. The window at the back of the room looks very 'ship-like'.

Perhaps this photo was taken 'live' as they loaded the item into the basket. In the background you also see a lot of shredded debris...
Rather than sorting through downloaded images, they are preferring a quick digital photo 'live' from the review room to release to the media as an indication of what is going on. Hi-res photos will be saved for the investigators, us normal people have to settle for what they feed us...

For those having doubts about a potential FDR/CVR CSMU confusion, please take a look at my post #447 (hey, what serendipity!)

AZR

Cylindrical CSMU for FDR
 

Henra, Nick L

Solid State Flight Data Recorder - Honeywell Aerospace
This is another model but SHOWS a very important point:

They are also using the cylindrical shape for FDR.

Nick L warned and i am closing now the investigation.

I think we can close the issue.

Honeywell website was not update, BEA has the update and now let´s hope to find the other CSMU and to be both READABLE.

Rgds,

Mac

First of all, I think there has been a huge, silent, sigh of relief that a memory module had been retrieved; a tribute to the determination and persistence of all - including AF and AB. I must admit I had the most severe doubts that anything useful would be found and I am delighted that it has. The possibility that the utter disappearance of a modern, well founded airliner was going to remain an almost unexplained mystery was not an edifying one.

Second, for all those SLF and uninitiated on here who, like me, have followed these threads from day one, has it been established definitively that the device recovered is the memory module - ie: the data itself - of the Flight Data Recorder?

Roger.

RR_NDB,

Thanks, and if I came off as an a** in my replies to you I apologize.

Sincerely,
Nick

Dukane pinger on the BEA photo
 

Anybody noticed that in the third picture released today from BEA there is actually a "Dukane" (DK120?) ULB standing upright on the top of the wooden cabinet just near the left-down hand corner of the right flatscreen ??
http://www.bea.aero/fr/enquetes/vol....mages/fdr3.jpg

So, with the FDR in the perspex box, that is what they are (were) looking for.

http://www.rjeint.com/pdf/DK-120revD.pdf

Cylindrical CSMU for FDR
 

AlphaZuluRomeo,

Perfect,

Thanks!

Mac

glad rag
Was hoping someone would notice that, but suspect that even if water has penetrated under pressure, that the individual chips will still give up their contents when interrogated.

Thanks for your reply to my earlier posting.

From the New York Times:

So maybe, let´s say, 20 days before some news? How much time until some reading is done (if the memory chip is in good state)?

"Ile de Sein" took only three days to reach it´s present location from Recife, Brazil. So I believe the transport ship is coming from another place (France?), and heading there after meeting the "Ile".

This is also interesting:

I haven´t seen this information before.

Ace
 

Nick L, (Age: 21, Posts: 5)

We must check everything. Murphy´s law never fail.

And we fail despite being very careful.

When you warned i started IMMEDIATELY to investigate.

I will show to my crew (my kids) your "fine business". Good example.

Best regards,

Mac, (age 61)

PS

At your age i started my passion for aviation and learned to be careful. Doing maintenance in HF big transmitters, Data equipt., VHF and BIG, POWERFUL and DANGEROUS NDB.

The RR (QRG 375 Kc/s*) NDB was like a MW Broadcast STN. Huge!


* Now KHz

Hi,

Methink you forget (or .. it is included in all ? ) to quote the determination and persistence of the families associations who fought for the researches continue ....

Hi,

Funnily enough one point of view of justice when we know that the BEA is subject of a complaint for obstruction in search of truth in this matter :sad:

CSMU of FDR
 

Landroger,

They found one Crash Survivable Memory Unit (CSMU). They said is the FDR memory.

The rack found before is no longer important.

Now the missing important part is the CSMU of SSCVR, also cylindrical shaped.

Let´s finger cross.

Mac

As previously stated by the BEA, a French Navy ship will pick up the CSMU to take it to the nearest port under French control (most likely Fr. Guiana) from where it will be flown to the BEA labs.

See this news article on the recovered memory unit. Investigators find black box from Air France crash - Yahoo! News

Centrosphere;
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.:=

"Ile de Sein" departed from Dakar, Senegal for her voyage to the Recovery Operation Position (ROP).