MAYDAY over the Bay of Biscay
 

Any details on the MAYDAY call over the Bay of Biscay this afternoon around 13:45z-14:00z? It was picked up on 121.5 by a MyTravel aircraft and reported to Brest.
I hope the poor bugg*rs were alright.
VS
:sad:

No - but there was one yesterday, all in Spanish.

Heard the one yesterday coming out of IBZ. Hapag Lloyd took the mayday - someone with an engine failure.

Didn't hear any more.

Any clues ?

mayday
 

Yes I heard it this afternoon too..well some of it, as we were also speaking to ATC at the time and briefing for the descent. Understand that a Globespan aircraft was involved in the message relay so we didn't action anything. I hope that it all worked out too.

Keep me posted.

MoT

I wonder, what is this fixation with 'mayday'?
IF it is an engine failure, transport aircraft are are quite capable (if properly loaded and flown) to return to a suitable airport, so why all the fuss?

Me thinks...'wound up like a cheap watch' pilots.:eek:

and how do you know it was a transport a/c ?? and it is a pretty big deal.

Oh lemmee see someone has made a mayday call, oh well no big deal, let someone else sort it out, Sheesh !!!:(

Ever thought that the Mayday as a result of engine failure, might have been because it was THE engoine that had failed?

The ONE and ONLY engine.

If it's a twin-engined transport, which 411A has claimed to have never flown, then the checklist calls for a landing at the nearest suitable airport. So a PAN call would at least be expected.

You're very quick to deride fellow professionals, 411A - however that epistle you gave us some time ago, about taking off in an aircraft with one engine delivering an unknown, and unreliable amount of power, greatly reduced your credibility as a true professional pilot, albeit a decade or more ago now.

Why all this reluctance to declare a Mayday. It gets you priority and it can always be cancelled.:)

Having waded through the 121.5 (mis)use thread, I'm surprised some people here aren't claiming the need for students to be able to call practice mayday calls, "...so they're be confident the system works should they ever need to make a real one" (!)

My dear chap (Arizona Airline Captain), it's not a case as you suggest of a fixation with 'mayday'.
Were you there or heard it? No, but must have the two pennies worth, just in case.
How did you arrive to the conclusion it was a transport aircraft? God only knows and frankly who cares. :confused: But hey, what do I 'wound up like a cheap watch' pilot know about it.
Well, I heard some of it and the poor guy putting the mayday, just kept calling mayday and it sounded 'a little' concerned. We thought at the time.... poor bugg*er….put yourself on his or their situation. But of course big airline captains don’t worry about things like that, at least those that fly a real mahogany desk airliner. :D
Anyway, I just hope there was a safe outcome.
VS :ok:

We picked up one yesterday on 121.5 too at about that time, and ourselves and a company a/c relayed the message to Brest, although we're neither MyTravel or Globespan so I wonder if it was different 'event'? Hope there wasn't another one. :(

The mayday callsign we heard gave a position report in both French and English that was somewhere in the region of Nantes. There were no intentions or problem stated in the mayday. About 10 mins later we picked up an intermittent ELT before we switched frequencies. I'm pretty sure it wasn't a commercial aircraft.

I hope the chap made it ok. That's the second one in two days we've heard over France. :(

411A, I think one engine on a two engine aircraft is serious. Regradless. That increases 10-fold if fire is involved. No engine on a 1 engined aircraft hardly qualifies as being 'wound up like a cheap watch'.

TS6

Errr.....Spanish ATC doesn't recognise PAN as an emergency call, as I recall.

Got a problem, make a Mayday call.

If 411A was a true professional, he would realise that not all companies follow HIS take on SOPs. Many, many airlines require a mandatory MAYDAY due to an engine failure on departure. Why a Mayday?

1. As pointed out, many countries do not recognise PAN.
2. It gets their attention (or at least should) and sets their emergency plan into action.
3. Without further dialogue they know you have a problem and will (should) not bombard you with further requests for info, which they invariably do if you don't declare a problem fully and try to play it down.....
4. No reason why you can't downgrade after everything is sorted and you are ready for the approach.

So, to sum up, the PROFESSIONAL pilots will use the most efficient course of action available to them, under the prevailing circumstances to ENSURE priority handling by ATC when it is required. Losing an engine on take off, even on a twin jet transport is, IMHO just such a circumstance as I may be deviating from a SID (climbing straight ahead) or carrying out an Emergency Turn, which ATC don't know about, with restricted climb performance and also carrying out recall drills. Also factor in CRM issues (like very inexperienced right seat occupants) which many EU airlines employ and the PROFESSIONAL captain would be doing a good job IMHO when he called MAYDAY.

Wound like cheap watches? Sounds like a RUSTY OLD TIMER too set in his ways to consider anything other than his own opinion could be correct.:D

PP

Yep, 'mayday' and especially 'Pan'....well overused.
It must be a European thing.

I was in the sim one day with a new co-pilot, and after an engine failure at rotation, he was so busy calling 'mayday' on the radio, he couldn't/didn't bother to select the landing gear up, when asked.
The check pilot was definitely not amused.
In fact, he threw him out of the upgrade program....as in, gone.

411A

Perhaps you should read the post

also how is

relevant? The co-pilot failed to remember to aviate, navigate then communicate. There is nothing on this thread to suggest that.

Well Done 411A
That one chappie who wont be bothering anyone:mad:

Happen to buy one of those "OEI-middle-of-the-night-over-the-Bay-of-Biscay" T-shirts a year ago. Despite it being a rock solid US westcoast product with the largest P&Ws available for the type we were forced to descend 15.000 feet to fly level. We didn't actually call mayday but being forced to descend we did declare an emergency.

Who is this 411A, im so glad i do NOT fly with him, how can a mayday or pan call be over used, that is the biggest load of S*** I have heard...

411A see your one of those guys who like to get people chopped in the sim rather than helping them, what a nice fellow you are.

If i was flying with you and i lost an engine make no mistake i WOULD delcare a MAYDAY, and argue with you later.

Can i suggest you make useful posts on here or otherwise GO AWAY!

Ye Gods - I hope the media don't read this and report that very inexperienced pilots fly for many EU airlines. I know it is true but isn't it scary- especially when passengers believe in all innocence there are two experienced polers up front - not apprentices..

Well, as one of the crews that did hear the Mayday and helped relay it to Brest, it certainly sounded serious.

A rather worried Frenchman by the sounds of it making the call. Possibly a turboprop by the sounds in the background. Unfortunately my French is only passable at best and from the speed and anxiety in this guy's voice, I couldnt pick up much. To be honest couldn't swear that it wasn't a ship either.

Relayed that we had heard a Mayday on 121.5 , in French, to Brest. We then heard the guy passing what sounded like co-ordinates and heading to another controller.

Would hope the guy is OK and that it wasn't serious. If anyone knows the outcome, would like to know.

On an aside - if he had broadcast in English, we would all have known what his trouble was, where he was and what help he needed. Might have allowed more or faster help to be obtained if more of the people listening out can understand you. However, I suppose we might all revert to our native language if in dire straits.

A MAYDAY cal is used when there is imminent danger to the aircraft or it's occupants.

However, that being the rule, is is not always evident that a PAN call will get noticed by ATC all over the world.

The use of the MAYDAY call can therefore be justified if subsequantely it is made clear that the full blown emergency services are not needed.

Best practice is to start with a PAN call if conditions do not justify a MAYDAY and if no reaction by ATC then just go ahead with the MAYDAY.....believe me you WILL be able to defend yourself.

Ain't it the truth...
 

>>Ye Gods - I hope the media don't read this and report that very inexperienced pilots fly for many EU airlines. I know it is true but isn't it scary- especially when passengers believe in all innocence there are two experienced polers up front - not apprentices.<<

I think they know already.
Young guys spring loaded to the mayday and pan panic stations.
Ain't it grand?:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

411A, I hope that when you call MAYDAY your fellow pilots show the lack of consideration that you obviously would.

Not only do I hope that I never fly with you, but I hope I nor anyone I know have the misfortune of being a passenger on one of your flights.

I've read many an accident report that begins with a pilot with an attitude like yours.

Have you thought about retiring?

3000+ posts and still belongs in a:

http://www.wdmemories.com/toolbelt.jpg

We had a situation yesterday where an aircraft called MAYDAY because one of the engines failed. They were in the final stages of their climb to cruising altitude when one of the two engines just shut down. I can imagine this was rather unpleasant for the crew as it seemed they were unsure at first what exactly happened. Glad to report they made it safely into EHAM (with thanks to the chaps in Brussels and Amsterdam ACC for the assistance)

And the internationally recognised method of 'declaring an emergency' is?:rolleyes:

So you avoid the big 'M' word and potentially cause confusion to a controller who has English as a second language and may not be able to interpret your definition of an emergency, but one that doesn't warrant a Mayday?

Very professional.

PP

Pilot Pete, I agree. "Declaring an emergency" is for Hollywood stars in action movies. It means nothing.

If there is a problem don't flute around. Mayday gets peoples attention sharpish and gets you what you need immediately. When your back on the ground afterwards you can discuss the rights and the wrongs.

I spend most of my working days in Italian airspace, communication is a major problem and I have experienced that any questions that deviates from standard RT usually has the controller stumped. Our company demands a PAN if EFATO, and I play that game in the sim, but if it happens for real I will use the word MAYDAY!

I think most people know (or will know at the time) when to put a mayday call, with or without the Arizona cowboy's approval. He makes controversial statements (talking rubbish) to create his own debates and boost his ego. Look at some of his previous posts (if you have time to waste) and you’ll see him hijack every threat possible with the cliché “I remember when…..that co-pilot…..” :bored: :zzz: Actually, I wonder if he ever flew (hands on) an aircraft or just heard too many war stories in the bar. Hey, I’m doing what he wants. I am discussing him! Sorry. :O
The business of declaring a Mayday or not has been discussed many tmes before on this forum.
Let’s go back to the initial post. Obviously there isn’t an ATC member or crew member out there that knows what happened? Thanks.
Once again, hope that everything went well for the aircraft and its occupants.
:ok:

From a UK perspective only Mayday or Pan is recognised as an emergency call, however both pilots and ATC can decide if one should be declared. If an a/c loses 50% or more of its power then a Mayday will automatically be declared. ATC Towers have more catergories describing emergencies from local standbys to full emergencies to ground accidents, and they alone decide what to apply and dependent on which they choose decides if any or all the local flashing blue lights greet you at the runway threshold. This has been discussed at length many times before, a search of rumours and news and also ATC Issues will drag the threads up.

Ladies and Gentleman...don't let ol 411A wind you up!

Whilst he sits on his rocking chair sucking on an unlit pipe and thinking of the good ol days...he is out in the pasture and its just best to give the ol horse some sugar cubes, pat it on the nose and let it think it still runs the stable...:p

Good to see you back in form 411A...and leave the littl'uns alone!:=

;)

Out in the pasture you say, Fox3...ah, well, hardly.
Still working, flying from time to time, so not retired just yet, thanks to ICAO.:)

Now, for an engine failure in a twin, yes a mayday might be appropriate, but if you tried this in US airspace, I suspect you would not get as much attention from ATC as a simple 'emergency' call.

And as for a 'pan' call, I suspect ATC would wonder which frying pan you are referring to...:ugh:

411A

I'm sure that what you say is correct. However, shouldn't ATC at least have a working knowledge of www.faa.gov/ATpubs/AIM/Chap6/aim0603.html ?

Airclues

There's the transatlantic difference.

A 'simple' emergency call isn't recognised in my world. PAN gets attention, MAYDAY gets instant response. "I am declaring an emergency" will suffer cocktail party syndrome (not significant enough to penetrate the background noise).

I spend my standby time listening to 121.5, 156.8 and 243.0 and reacting (or not).

And the only time in 28 years I have transmitted MAYDAY an engine had stopped in the circuit and I really fancied landing on the cross runway, so telling everyone in forceful terms seemed appropriate.

Sven

Pilot Pete et al.: This tread subject went from a question about a possible emergency to whether to declare an emergency in case of OEI.
414A chose not to think so.
My 10 cents was only to inform 414A that even the best American twoholer around was subject to some modified behavior when OEI. Behavior which just might require assistance.
Annex 10 and Doc 9432 defines distress as follows:
Now, why do you assume that we were subject to imminent danger and required immediate assistance? And what does "English as a second language" have to do with it?
We had a 5-5 connection with Madrid ATC and, using the prescribed ICAO phraseology, we coordinated descent and turn toward suitable airport before danger arose.
BTW: Neither Spain nor the United States have notified ICAO of differences to Annex 10 (Communication Procedures including those with PANS status).

FWIW I had an engine failure on rotation in a big twin at Heathrow a few years back. Gave a quick 'Mayday XXXXX engine failure' - not because we were in any immediate danger, but because it would alert Tower that we had a problem & he shouldn't expect us to to 'do the expected'. We then carried out all the necessary checks in blissful p&q, without being hassled for frequency changes etc etc.
ATC were fantastic (that'll be a 'no delay' next time I fly guys :) ) & all ended up happily ever after.
No regrets on the Mayday. I'd do the same tomorrow.

So back to the original post - does anyone know what the Mayday was about?

NG708
I think we are wasting our time on this one. Somebody would've said something by now if they knew what it was about. But the old chestnut about the correctness of mayday calls was brought in (courtesy of our “mate” the cowboy) and that’s the best way to kill a thread or turn it into the same boring stuff. Oh well. I am sure this is not the first time and certainly not the last one. Just keep giving it sugar cubes and the old horse will be happy.
:bored:

I think someone needs to check on the definition of Mayday, as compared to Pan. I believe that the main difference is that Mayday means "requiring immediate assistance". Is 411A suggesting that a crew losing an engine never requires immediate assistance? Perhaps he needs more CRM training - use the resources you have, and they include ATC.

The fact that one pilot got his priorities wrong in a sim practice certainly provides no evidence that Pan or Mayday calls are overused. I have heard some exemplary emergncy calls.

Would 411a say that mayday declared to get attention and help when a serious problem arises that subsequently gets resolved and ends in a safe landing is unnessersary? I declared a mayday in a light aircraft a few years ago (in the UK talking to US military controllers providing a LARS service) when I had a serious problem because my initial low key attempts at getting help got nowhere. The mayday immediately got the help I needed and allowed me to resolve the rapidly deteriating situation. Does the fact I landed safely mean I didn't need to declare a mayday? I feel if I hadn't I wouldn't be here typing this.

Pan-Pan, Pan-Pan, Pan-Pan

wind up alert! :ugh: :mad:

(or should it be Mayday :E )