RYAN AIR ENG FAILURE
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Central Europe
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I would let everybody on the frequency know, that I have some serious problems. Best done by using the magic word, MAYDAY. In my case the aircraft wants to change about half of the air below to be above, even more if heavy and in icing conditions.
Drift down might be considered, as we fly around the Alps, or even better to Georgia with its caucasian mountains getting up to 5.000 m.
Homebase is always a good idea, if you don`t get yourself into deeper troubles because of a large distance. 100 NM is not that far, but why flying away from a perfectly usable airport? Decisions have to be made, thats all. After that, discuss it, learn from it, agree or disagree with the actions but keep a profesionell level throughout the discussion.
chris
Drift down might be considered, as we fly around the Alps, or even better to Georgia with its caucasian mountains getting up to 5.000 m.
Homebase is always a good idea, if you don`t get yourself into deeper troubles because of a large distance. 100 NM is not that far, but why flying away from a perfectly usable airport? Decisions have to be made, thats all. After that, discuss it, learn from it, agree or disagree with the actions but keep a profesionell level throughout the discussion.
chris
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: London
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Since Kegworth, general policy of most airlines would be to land at nearest suitable airport. But, in any event, we don't no the full story. It is quite likely that what was done on the day was perfectly acceptable, so let's wait to hear the facts.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Southern Hemisphere
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mjenkinsblackdog, the QRH says NEAREST SUITABLE AIRPORT. There is no mention of below, ahead, behind or to either side.
If you were an experienced jet pilot you wouldn't be stirring the cr@p here. You wouldn't question a crews decision to carry on to DUB if they had an engine failure overhead MAN whilst in the cruise. The ONLY time a crew would drop down from overhead in the cruise to an airport directly below is if there were NO OTHER SUITABLE airport within 100nm. It looks like you are just trying to stir the pot because you would know that there are plenty of suitable airports within gliding distance from overhead MAN.
A jet cruising at or above FL310 and experiencing an engine shutdown would need at least 100nm to lose the altitide whether it was in a straight line to an airport ahead, behind or underneath. An engine shutdown is not a mayday situation unless there are additional problems such as a fire or anything that is immediately endangering lives. A mayday may be called initially but once an engine has been shut down and provided there is no fire, severe damage or separation then the nature of the emergency can be downgraded to a PAN which will still provide priority handling by ATC.
So, a B737 suffering an engine failure overhead MAN en route to DUB would require several minutes to identify the problem, perform the recall drills, perform the QRH checklist whilst handling any driftdown if necessary due to weight. Considering the distance from MAN to DUB is approximately 130nm and also considering that the a/c still has an operating engine and is perfectly capable of flying on that single engine and considering that the operator has a maintenance base there and considering that the original destination was DUB anyway, all considered in that order, by the time a decision is made the a/c would have been requesting descent for DUB anyway!
So mjenkinsblackdog, unless you are really an experienced jet pilot leave the decisions to the real pilots who were there and are trained to make those decisions in the first place. I wouldn't advise making those kind of cut and dried statements with such authority if you are being considered for a command.
If you were an experienced jet pilot you wouldn't be stirring the cr@p here. You wouldn't question a crews decision to carry on to DUB if they had an engine failure overhead MAN whilst in the cruise. The ONLY time a crew would drop down from overhead in the cruise to an airport directly below is if there were NO OTHER SUITABLE airport within 100nm. It looks like you are just trying to stir the pot because you would know that there are plenty of suitable airports within gliding distance from overhead MAN.
A jet cruising at or above FL310 and experiencing an engine shutdown would need at least 100nm to lose the altitide whether it was in a straight line to an airport ahead, behind or underneath. An engine shutdown is not a mayday situation unless there are additional problems such as a fire or anything that is immediately endangering lives. A mayday may be called initially but once an engine has been shut down and provided there is no fire, severe damage or separation then the nature of the emergency can be downgraded to a PAN which will still provide priority handling by ATC.
So, a B737 suffering an engine failure overhead MAN en route to DUB would require several minutes to identify the problem, perform the recall drills, perform the QRH checklist whilst handling any driftdown if necessary due to weight. Considering the distance from MAN to DUB is approximately 130nm and also considering that the a/c still has an operating engine and is perfectly capable of flying on that single engine and considering that the operator has a maintenance base there and considering that the original destination was DUB anyway, all considered in that order, by the time a decision is made the a/c would have been requesting descent for DUB anyway!
So mjenkinsblackdog, unless you are really an experienced jet pilot leave the decisions to the real pilots who were there and are trained to make those decisions in the first place. I wouldn't advise making those kind of cut and dried statements with such authority if you are being considered for a command.
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: UK
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Just a couple of thoughts.
Assuming reasonable weather everywhere, and an engine stopping in the cruise at say FL350 overhead the MCT.
If the other engine were to stop, where would you rather be,65nm from both Man and Dub at say 20000ft or overhead Manchester(I know,go to Valley but the same principle applies halfway between Valley and Dublin at 10000ft).
As the QRH says 'land at the nearest suitable airport' for both fire and straightforward engine failure,would you continue to Dublin with a fire?
If I (as a pilot) were a passenger in that situation I would rather go to Manchester.I know, I am a coward!!
You can try and baffle everyone with 'science' but I agree with Black Dog, who last time I saw him was a jet airline Captain!
The interesting question to me is not where they went,but why?
Assuming reasonable weather everywhere, and an engine stopping in the cruise at say FL350 overhead the MCT.
If the other engine were to stop, where would you rather be,65nm from both Man and Dub at say 20000ft or overhead Manchester(I know,go to Valley but the same principle applies halfway between Valley and Dublin at 10000ft).
As the QRH says 'land at the nearest suitable airport' for both fire and straightforward engine failure,would you continue to Dublin with a fire?
If I (as a pilot) were a passenger in that situation I would rather go to Manchester.I know, I am a coward!!
You can try and baffle everyone with 'science' but I agree with Black Dog, who last time I saw him was a jet airline Captain!
The interesting question to me is not where they went,but why?
Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
Join Date: May 1999
Location: UK
Age: 76
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I find it rather sad that all and sundry are second guessing the decision of another airline pilot. The fact that they are not in receipt of all the information makes it sadder still.
My only hope is that any decision was made on the material facts at the time and the wish to please his CEO had no influence on the the Captain's choice of destination.
My only hope is that any decision was made on the material facts at the time and the wish to please his CEO had no influence on the the Captain's choice of destination.
