Quiz - What was the Worlds fastest subsonic airliner?
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Quiz - What was the Worlds fastest subsonic airliner?
This airliner was reported in 1971 to have Vdf (max demonstrated) of 445 knots and Mdf 0.97, and according to DP Davies in Handling the Big Jets had been flown by the designers at Mach 0.99 "and it is understood that it still handles remarkably well". You can't get any faster that that without becoming supersonic.
What was this superstar airliner and what happenned to it?
What was this superstar airliner and what happenned to it?
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Dont know if it is true, but I belive to have read a L1011 have flown .95
I was in relation to the Citaion X, where many was impressed how fast it could fly. Some guy wrote that it was not so impressive, as he had done .95 in a L1011, but fuel economy was a different storry....
I was in relation to the Citaion X, where many was impressed how fast it could fly. Some guy wrote that it was not so impressive, as he had done .95 in a L1011, but fuel economy was a different storry....
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My money either goes on the VC10 I was overtaken on the North Atlantic once by an RAF one going at a hell of a lick whilst creeping along in 767,or most probably the Convair CV880/990 family which is now extinct but looked much like an early DC8.I think they were called coronados and were extremely quick.Progress has stopped bar avionics and engines!!.
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Stampe,
I place my money with yours on the Convair. I recall when it was first proposed (God, am I really that old!) it was billed as the fastest airliner available - by the marketing department. The poor old designers and engineers who put it together were then forced to resort to all sorts of refinements to get it to achieve the promises. Plus ca change eh!
VnV...
Whatever happened to progress ?
I place my money with yours on the Convair. I recall when it was first proposed (God, am I really that old!) it was billed as the fastest airliner available - by the marketing department. The poor old designers and engineers who put it together were then forced to resort to all sorts of refinements to get it to achieve the promises. Plus ca change eh!
VnV...
Whatever happened to progress ?
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I must admit I'd have guessed the VC10 too, but failing that...
Wasn't the Comet with it's pure turbojets was it?
On the other hand, if it was just coming into service in 1971, that would be the right date for a 747 Classic.
G
[This message has been edited by Genghis the Engineer (edited 15 January 2001).]
Wasn't the Comet with it's pure turbojets was it?
On the other hand, if it was just coming into service in 1971, that would be the right date for a 747 Classic.
G
[This message has been edited by Genghis the Engineer (edited 15 January 2001).]
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This is slightly a trick question. The Mach 0.99 I refer to is in a dive. It is not something the plane could maintain unless some distinctly bigger engines were strapped onto it.
The interesting thing is it could do 0.99 without any control complications.
As a clue, a significant contributory factor was the presence of large fully powered control surfaces avoiding the compromise between effectiveness and stick force.
The interesting thing is it could do 0.99 without any control complications.
As a clue, a significant contributory factor was the presence of large fully powered control surfaces avoiding the compromise between effectiveness and stick force.
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It's the trusty old 747!
It was tested in a dive to M 0.991 in the original certification tries, just to test for mach tuck.
FWIW, I've seen M 0.88 fairly sustained in the cruise .... we were in a hurry!
The fastest cruiser though, I think, was the Convair 990 (??) Did something like M 0.9 sustained.
It was tested in a dive to M 0.991 in the original certification tries, just to test for mach tuck.
FWIW, I've seen M 0.88 fairly sustained in the cruise .... we were in a hurry!
The fastest cruiser though, I think, was the Convair 990 (??) Did something like M 0.9 sustained.
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First prize goes to 18Wheeleralthough Genghis was on the scent.
It was indeed the 747. Described by the author as [i]an airship with wings on it[/].
I find it fascinating that an everyday plane can be made to go at Mach 1. That's a significant chunk off a long haul journey time albeit at considerable extra fuel expense no doubt. Goes back to earlier discussions on why jets still don't fly faster. There are plenty of engines above 50000 pounds that could get the 747 cruising faster.
I wonder what it would take to hold Mach 0.99 at 40000 feet?
It was indeed the 747. Described by the author as [i]an airship with wings on it[/].
I find it fascinating that an everyday plane can be made to go at Mach 1. That's a significant chunk off a long haul journey time albeit at considerable extra fuel expense no doubt. Goes back to earlier discussions on why jets still don't fly faster. There are plenty of engines above 50000 pounds that could get the 747 cruising faster.
I wonder what it would take to hold Mach 0.99 at 40000 feet?
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As a copilot I used to fly with skippers who'd flown the Convairs, both the '880 and '990. I remember them saying that the normal cruise Mach was 0.92 but as fuel was cheap in those days they would simply accellerate until the bell rang, then ease the power off a bit. I think Mmo on the '990 was .96 or .97 after they fitted the "Kucheman carrots" on the wings to cure the prohibitive drag penalties discovered in flight testing.
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Spotters books in the seventies and Guiness always quoted the CV990 Coronado as the fastest subsonic cruise with the Trident close behind and fastest british machine.
Are the ex Spantax 990's still decomposing at Palma?, think I remember seeing one execute a smoketrailing departure from LBA in 85. There is/was a beatifully preserved Swissair example in the Swiss transport museum at Lugano, landed at an airforce base across the lake and then floated over on pontoons.
Are the ex Spantax 990's still decomposing at Palma?, think I remember seeing one execute a smoketrailing departure from LBA in 85. There is/was a beatifully preserved Swissair example in the Swiss transport museum at Lugano, landed at an airforce base across the lake and then floated over on pontoons.
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Convair 990 "Coronado" !
Built by General Dynamics in San Diego California.
Prior to Concorde,it was the biggest financial disaster in aviation history nearly bringing General Dynamic to its knees. Convair lost $250 Million, 37 were built. Flew with Swissair and Spantax, but devolped for an American Airlines requirement.
CV 990 featured 4 "Area Rule" conical fairings on the wing trailing edges. The 990 was a devolpment of the smaller CV880 which operated for Delta, Cathay Pacific and others.
990 was powered by 4 GE CJ805-23B Engines
Accomodated 106 pax typically.
Built by General Dynamics in San Diego California.
Prior to Concorde,it was the biggest financial disaster in aviation history nearly bringing General Dynamic to its knees. Convair lost $250 Million, 37 were built. Flew with Swissair and Spantax, but devolped for an American Airlines requirement.
CV 990 featured 4 "Area Rule" conical fairings on the wing trailing edges. The 990 was a devolpment of the smaller CV880 which operated for Delta, Cathay Pacific and others.
990 was powered by 4 GE CJ805-23B Engines
Accomodated 106 pax typically.
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Nah, no 747 could get close to M 1.0 in level flight - The one that did the M 0.991 run had about 10° nose down, I think, to get up to that speed.
In one of the previous companies I worked for, one night out in the middle of no-where, the 747 (I wasn't on board) got hit with a big standing wave, and in a few seconds the mach number went from 0.85 up to 0.96 on the ASI!!
(Mmo 0.92) The Captain kept his cool and just pulled the power back, and let the speed bleed off over a minute or so. An airframe inspection revealed no damage at all.
I think about the fastest you could go in, say, a Roller powered -200 would be about M 0.9 or so, depending on the weight, temp, and altitude.
Here's a pic of one of the 747-100 (PW 7A powered) I flew that got caught in a small standing wave - we were doing 0.84 a few seconds before that ...
Didn't feel a thing ...
[This message has been edited by 18Wheeler (edited 16 January 2001).]
In one of the previous companies I worked for, one night out in the middle of no-where, the 747 (I wasn't on board) got hit with a big standing wave, and in a few seconds the mach number went from 0.85 up to 0.96 on the ASI!!
(Mmo 0.92) The Captain kept his cool and just pulled the power back, and let the speed bleed off over a minute or so. An airframe inspection revealed no damage at all.
I think about the fastest you could go in, say, a Roller powered -200 would be about M 0.9 or so, depending on the weight, temp, and altitude.
Here's a pic of one of the 747-100 (PW 7A powered) I flew that got caught in a small standing wave - we were doing 0.84 a few seconds before that ...
Didn't feel a thing ...
[This message has been edited by 18Wheeler (edited 16 January 2001).]
