Does Airbus Have Thrust Asymmetry Compenation
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From: las vegas
Does Airbus Have Thrust Asymmetry Compenation
Dear friends, How does AIRBUS handle engine failures on the Large A330 twin ? Do they use TAC - IE automatically washing in opposite rudder to the bad engine ?
Joined: Aug 2001
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From: UK
Can't answer on the A330, but on its baby brother (or sister!) the A320 does have an automatic system.
If adverse yaw is detected the FMGC sends a signal to the FAC, which then commands the necessary rudder input.
I would imagine the A330 has a similar system.
If adverse yaw is detected the FMGC sends a signal to the FAC, which then commands the necessary rudder input.
I would imagine the A330 has a similar system.
Joined: May 2001
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From: London,England
The A320 family does NOT have an auto function to apply yaw in the event of an engine failure. The system simply provides yaw damping to counteract adverse yaw due to roll to assist with turn coordination and yawing in turbulence. The rudder is a non fly-by-wire surface in all but the new A340-5/600. Yaw commands come from the flight control computers (ELACs) and not the FMGS (Flight Management System). I believe that the A330 is the same.
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: Switzerland
The long and short of it is, it works very well to compensate adverse yaw in an engine failure situation...
In the sim (pleaaase, only in the sim!), toggle on the autopilot at 30ft AGL, shut down the engine, order a coffee and watch it fly!
About the only manipulation you will have to do is to confirm the engine failure in the FMS, and retract the flaps once it has decided to accelerate... It's almost humbling to see how smoothly it centers the ball, and gives you about 4 degrees of opposite bank...
Oh, I forgot: you still have to move the thrust levers back one "click" at safe altitude to signal for max continuous thrust...
In the sim (pleaaase, only in the sim!), toggle on the autopilot at 30ft AGL, shut down the engine, order a coffee and watch it fly!
About the only manipulation you will have to do is to confirm the engine failure in the FMS, and retract the flaps once it has decided to accelerate... It's almost humbling to see how smoothly it centers the ball, and gives you about 4 degrees of opposite bank...
Oh, I forgot: you still have to move the thrust levers back one "click" at safe altitude to signal for max continuous thrust...
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From: under a wet rock
Under what conditions are you assuming the A/C is operating under? If the Auto-pilot is engaged and an engine subsequently fails, the Auto-pilot does a nice job of handling the yaw. If the Auto-pilot is not engaged, the flying pilot must correct the yaw through the use of opposite rudder. The A/C will trim the rudder according to rudder input from the pilot automatically although the rudder trim switch will accomplish this somewhat faster.
330
330
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I can only assume from flyMDs comments that the autopilot can be engaged on the A330 at a much lower altidtude than the A320. Trying to 'toggle on' the autopilot at 30ft in the latter will result in much button pressing with no effect until you pass 100ft, at which point it may engage if you are close enough to being in trim.
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: Switzerland
Wubble:
As I said, it has been some time since I have touched the 'bus... I thought I remembered that the AP would engage at 30ft, whilst the operational limitation was at 100ft... But maybe i'm wrong, having had 3 transition courses since, the various AFM data tends to mix up in my puny little brain...
Apologies if I have emitted wrong data!
From what I remember from our sim sessions, handling the EF with autopilot OFF (90% of the time) was no big problem, except that on take-off, full rudder input would induce oscillation. The most generally practiced way was to level the wings with aileron first, and then slowly apply rudder....
My lasting impression from the Airbus was that while the automation was neat, you could always toggle off most of the stuff and "hand-fly" the beast to your satisfaction, including switching off the flight-control computers until the system was in "basic mode", i.e. where stick deflection actually corresponds to control surface deflection....
I have never touched a Boeing, sadly, but I can imagine it will take a while for any self-respecting Boeing driver to be seduced by the Airbus "philosophy" of doing things. It's interesting though to see that most people who have flown Airbus for more than 1 year are rather satisfied with it...
As I said, it has been some time since I have touched the 'bus... I thought I remembered that the AP would engage at 30ft, whilst the operational limitation was at 100ft... But maybe i'm wrong, having had 3 transition courses since, the various AFM data tends to mix up in my puny little brain...
Apologies if I have emitted wrong data!
From what I remember from our sim sessions, handling the EF with autopilot OFF (90% of the time) was no big problem, except that on take-off, full rudder input would induce oscillation. The most generally practiced way was to level the wings with aileron first, and then slowly apply rudder....
My lasting impression from the Airbus was that while the automation was neat, you could always toggle off most of the stuff and "hand-fly" the beast to your satisfaction, including switching off the flight-control computers until the system was in "basic mode", i.e. where stick deflection actually corresponds to control surface deflection....
I have never touched a Boeing, sadly, but I can imagine it will take a while for any self-respecting Boeing driver to be seduced by the Airbus "philosophy" of doing things. It's interesting though to see that most people who have flown Airbus for more than 1 year are rather satisfied with it...
Joined: May 2001
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From: London,England
In the sim (pleaaase, only in the sim!), toggle on the autopilot at 30ft AGL, shut down the engine, order a coffee and watch it fly!
Joined: Aug 1998
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From: The World
On aircraft such as the B-777 which employ the system it's called "rudder bias". The FAA would not let Boeing put rudder bias on the B-767 but encouraged its use on the B-777. It has all to do with the amount of thrust hanging on the wing. IMHO the FAA should have allowed Boeing to install rudder bias on the B-767.
The Airbus family up to the 34-300 series does not use rudder bias but if hand flying, engine out is easily handled and identified by steeping on the rudder beta bar in order to centre it. We were trained to apply rudder trim before engaging the autoflight system but I understand other operators engage the autoflight system immediately after 100' without trimming out the rudder. Unfortunately I never flew the 330 but I expect it to be the same as the earlier Airbus series.
Hope this helps..
Cheers
The Airbus family up to the 34-300 series does not use rudder bias but if hand flying, engine out is easily handled and identified by steeping on the rudder beta bar in order to centre it. We were trained to apply rudder trim before engaging the autoflight system but I understand other operators engage the autoflight system immediately after 100' without trimming out the rudder. Unfortunately I never flew the 330 but I expect it to be the same as the earlier Airbus series.
Hope this helps..
Cheers
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From: on the golf course (Covid permitting)
FlyMD
And that most people that convert to a Boeing and very satisfied with it almost immediately!
Seriously though, now fly A320 (previously B737/744) and the 'bus IS nice BUT takes about a year to get used to. A Boeing is more intuitive, the 'bus can be too clever for it's own good.
Better work environment in the 'bus - shame there's no bunk or flight deck loo though!
It's interesting though to see that most people who have flown Airbus for more than 1 year are rather satisfied with it...
Seriously though, now fly A320 (previously B737/744) and the 'bus IS nice BUT takes about a year to get used to. A Boeing is more intuitive, the 'bus can be too clever for it's own good.
Better work environment in the 'bus - shame there's no bunk or flight deck loo though!
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: Switzerland
TopBunk:
OK, you sold me on the Boeing idea: when and where can I start the transition?
But, seriously: after Airbus and various McDonnells, fates have offered me a G5 to "play" with, and it's really a bit disappointing...
I mean the aircraft is great, and everything what's expensive is in there somewhere, but the actual "integration" of the various components (FMS, DFGS, AP, FD, ECAM...) is not very good. The books for the various components come from the manufacturers (Collins, Honeywell,....) and the interactions between systems are not documented precisely. That's where the "big" manufacturers, especially Airbus, have the edge. Granted, the 'bus takes some hard studying before you understand what it does, but somehow, somwhere in the "book" there is always an explanation, and it even makes sense, mostly...
I hear Boeing is also great on this chapter, so count your blessings, I guess...
OK, you sold me on the Boeing idea: when and where can I start the transition?
But, seriously: after Airbus and various McDonnells, fates have offered me a G5 to "play" with, and it's really a bit disappointing...
I mean the aircraft is great, and everything what's expensive is in there somewhere, but the actual "integration" of the various components (FMS, DFGS, AP, FD, ECAM...) is not very good. The books for the various components come from the manufacturers (Collins, Honeywell,....) and the interactions between systems are not documented precisely. That's where the "big" manufacturers, especially Airbus, have the edge. Granted, the 'bus takes some hard studying before you understand what it does, but somehow, somwhere in the "book" there is always an explanation, and it even makes sense, mostly...
I hear Boeing is also great on this chapter, so count your blessings, I guess...
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From: The World
captchunder
That's what I would say however I only flew the 32/34 as my base was not cross crew qualified (CCQ) on the 33. I've e-mailed a friend who is CCQ on the 33/34 and I expect an answer shortly.
This is the answer: quote: "The A330 is like the A340. There is no rudder bias. Sure needs full rudder when you lose a fan on takeoff."
That's what I would say however I only flew the 32/34 as my base was not cross crew qualified (CCQ) on the 33. I've e-mailed a friend who is CCQ on the 33/34 and I expect an answer shortly.
This is the answer: quote: "The A330 is like the A340. There is no rudder bias. Sure needs full rudder when you lose a fan on takeoff."
Last edited by Tan; 5th August 2003 at 21:43.
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From: Suffolk UK
There is no automatic rudder bias on the A340 after EFATO - it needs a bootful of pilot input. I would imagine that the A330 is the same. Auto-trimmed rudder is not the same thing!
