Does he Die or Live?
Guest
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It occurs to me that the nature of the Wx minima are significant.
If the minima in question are visibility or gust strength, then it's not worth trying since you'll risk the whole aircraft. If, say, it's crosswind, then it may be arguable that there's significant risk of aircraft damage but little risk of loss of life. You may not subsequently be popular but would have saved a life.
G
If the minima in question are visibility or gust strength, then it's not worth trying since you'll risk the whole aircraft. If, say, it's crosswind, then it may be arguable that there's significant risk of aircraft damage but little risk of loss of life. You may not subsequently be popular but would have saved a life.
G
Guest
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No Tor,
I would not commence the approach, cause it would end in a go-around at the outer marker, as required. In the same 15 minutes this would have taken me, I would be 90 miles closer to my take-off alternate and the nearest hospital.
Any luck on your fokker 50 rating?
I would not commence the approach, cause it would end in a go-around at the outer marker, as required. In the same 15 minutes this would have taken me, I would be 90 miles closer to my take-off alternate and the nearest hospital.
Any luck on your fokker 50 rating?
Guest
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I'll try to get this story right, to the best of my recollections. It is some years ago....
Our hero (absolutely no sarcasm intended) is holding above one of the Channel Islands with wx well below Cat 1. He is in an old-technology turboprop, no autopilot (but a very reputable airline and a good fleet).
A passenger is taken immediately and very seriously ill. The options are not good for a return to the mainland as the weather at nearby airports there is foul, too.
The decision is taken to approach and land. Wx is OVC001 RVR 300ish. The approach and landing are carried out, uneventfully. The ambulance is on hand, and the passenger receives expert care and lives.
The CAA are informed, and praise this individual for 'saving the passenger's life'.
Moreover, he has done nothing wrong, as the requirements of the ANO 'May be departed from to the extent necessary for saving life' (paraphrasing, but I think I'm fairly close).
So, faced with the question at interview, you could recount this story, and discuss its merits, without necessarily agreeing with the action taken or its outcome.
'What if' questions are always difficult, because in considering the solution out of context, your response is atypical of that which would seem natural to you 'for real'.
BTW, the Captain mentioned above is an ex-military man of experience, and is a training management pilot.
Our hero (absolutely no sarcasm intended) is holding above one of the Channel Islands with wx well below Cat 1. He is in an old-technology turboprop, no autopilot (but a very reputable airline and a good fleet).
A passenger is taken immediately and very seriously ill. The options are not good for a return to the mainland as the weather at nearby airports there is foul, too.
The decision is taken to approach and land. Wx is OVC001 RVR 300ish. The approach and landing are carried out, uneventfully. The ambulance is on hand, and the passenger receives expert care and lives.
The CAA are informed, and praise this individual for 'saving the passenger's life'.
Moreover, he has done nothing wrong, as the requirements of the ANO 'May be departed from to the extent necessary for saving life' (paraphrasing, but I think I'm fairly close).
So, faced with the question at interview, you could recount this story, and discuss its merits, without necessarily agreeing with the action taken or its outcome.
'What if' questions are always difficult, because in considering the solution out of context, your response is atypical of that which would seem natural to you 'for real'.
BTW, the Captain mentioned above is an ex-military man of experience, and is a training management pilot.
Guest
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Another way to look at it (and it works all over the planet 
)
Question: is it an EMERGENCY?
NO: as in this case, as the "only" person in danger is a pax. Then you better abide to all rules
YES: say if the "old man" dies or some other interesting snag, then you are in a case of emergency and allowed to bust 'em all
So, as a matter of fact, just see if it qualifies as an emergency or not, and then make your decision!
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... cut my wings and I'll die ...
)Question: is it an EMERGENCY?
NO: as in this case, as the "only" person in danger is a pax. Then you better abide to all rules
YES: say if the "old man" dies or some other interesting snag, then you are in a case of emergency and allowed to bust 'em all
So, as a matter of fact, just see if it qualifies as an emergency or not, and then make your decision!
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... cut my wings and I'll die ...
Guest
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That's why I constructed the question the way I did. There is no requirement to the ceiling to commence an ILS approach. I'm not talking about landing but flying the approach. Would you consider it dangerous to fly an ILS with vis below 550m RVR? You know it legal if the vis went down after you passed the FAP.
Guest
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Sadly, the point raised above about 'emergency' does not stand. The conditions of Distress and Urgency are defined, recognised, and reflected in the use of 'Mayday' or 'Pan' in RTF, but you will not find a definition of 'emergency' in any relevant documentation.
Rather, the phrase used is 'the purpose of saving life' as per my previous post. So, it doesn't matter how many lives you're saving, providing that it's at least one!
Of course, you might find one of the other passengers on the aicraft sueing you for reckless endangerment or something similar if in the course of your below-limits landing you run off the side of the runway without hurting anyone, but the passenger concerned is emotionally upset by the episode and seeks compensation and thus makes a legal case against you.
Therefore, if you are going to bust the limits in this situation, you need to be absolutely confident that things will go smoothly. I have no problem, personally, in believing that this assessment can be made, given the right conditions - and it might even be possible to show it statistically, some of the time.
Rather, the phrase used is 'the purpose of saving life' as per my previous post. So, it doesn't matter how many lives you're saving, providing that it's at least one!
Of course, you might find one of the other passengers on the aicraft sueing you for reckless endangerment or something similar if in the course of your below-limits landing you run off the side of the runway without hurting anyone, but the passenger concerned is emotionally upset by the episode and seeks compensation and thus makes a legal case against you.
Therefore, if you are going to bust the limits in this situation, you need to be absolutely confident that things will go smoothly. I have no problem, personally, in believing that this assessment can be made, given the right conditions - and it might even be possible to show it statistically, some of the time.
