Using a GPS if your a passenger?
Guest
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Most airlines would not allow it. Reasons quoted are various.
Firstly, without being shielded and earthed to the airframe, it is difficult to quantify any interference with the aircraft's electrical equipment.
There is also the risk that a potential hijacker/suicide bomber is using one to check position before triggering a device or making his move...
It probably seems unfair to a genuinely interested amateur or spotter, but I have to confess that I would not be happy knowing that someone in the back is plotting our exact position. Apart from anything else, they'll know when I've got lost, or I'm bullsh*tting in my enroute PA announcement!
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Breeding Per Dementia Unto Something Jolly Big, Toodle-pip
Firstly, without being shielded and earthed to the airframe, it is difficult to quantify any interference with the aircraft's electrical equipment.
There is also the risk that a potential hijacker/suicide bomber is using one to check position before triggering a device or making his move...
It probably seems unfair to a genuinely interested amateur or spotter, but I have to confess that I would not be happy knowing that someone in the back is plotting our exact position. Apart from anything else, they'll know when I've got lost, or I'm bullsh*tting in my enroute PA announcement!
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Breeding Per Dementia Unto Something Jolly Big, Toodle-pip
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In the airline I work for, any electronic equipment, operating with an antenna must be switched off during flight. The reason is that it may interfere with the airplane systems. If you have a special interest in knowing our position or groundspeed, you can always ask to visit the cockpit. Happy to explain.
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Overfly-
The correct word is not "discreetly", it's "surreptitiously." If you were told to turn off electronic devices and you deliberatly didn't comply, shame on you.
Passengers are required to turn off most portable electronic equipment because they may interfere with the comm and nav systems on board the aircraft. In the flight magazine in the seat pocket there is usually a list of devices that you MAY use during flight. If a GPS is allowed by your airline/CAA, then great, have at it. And, there's no need to go sneaking around with it. Since you don't know the flight plan of the aircraft, deviations for weather, etc, you don't know if it's on-course or not.
Bluntly, what part of that don't you guys don't understand? When the Pilot-in-Command and the aviation authority of the country direct you to comply with simple rules that help ensure the safety of the aircaft and passengers, why can't you? As an aviation enthusiast, I should think you would be setting the example, not sneaking around like some schoolboy.
The correct word is not "discreetly", it's "surreptitiously." If you were told to turn off electronic devices and you deliberatly didn't comply, shame on you.
Passengers are required to turn off most portable electronic equipment because they may interfere with the comm and nav systems on board the aircraft. In the flight magazine in the seat pocket there is usually a list of devices that you MAY use during flight. If a GPS is allowed by your airline/CAA, then great, have at it. And, there's no need to go sneaking around with it. Since you don't know the flight plan of the aircraft, deviations for weather, etc, you don't know if it's on-course or not.
Bluntly, what part of that don't you guys don't understand? When the Pilot-in-Command and the aviation authority of the country direct you to comply with simple rules that help ensure the safety of the aircaft and passengers, why can't you? As an aviation enthusiast, I should think you would be setting the example, not sneaking around like some schoolboy.
Guest
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Totally agree, roadtrip,
Guys like these make not only our job more difficult, but it forces the F/A`s to act as policemen as well. All because it makes them feel they know better then the pilot`s???!!
So the rules don`t apply to the boyscouts, eh?
Pathetic
Guys like these make not only our job more difficult, but it forces the F/A`s to act as policemen as well. All because it makes them feel they know better then the pilot`s???!!
So the rules don`t apply to the boyscouts, eh?
Pathetic
Guest
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I totally agree with Roadtrip. If you are told you may not use elctronic equipment, then YOU MAY NOT. I suspect that you realise that what you are doing is stupid, irresponsible and illegal, which is why you try to conceal it.
Disobeying a lawful command of the captain will render you liable to arrest upon landing, fine and possible imprisonment for endangering the aircraft.
If you think you know better, carry on - but don't whinge if you suffer the consequences.
Disobeying a lawful command of the captain will render you liable to arrest upon landing, fine and possible imprisonment for endangering the aircraft.
If you think you know better, carry on - but don't whinge if you suffer the consequences.
Guest
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ACARS - well done for asking the question. Too many people don't ask, and illegally use equipment which may affect our ability to ensure a safe flight. Please don't be one of them. In any case, most long-haul airlines have an aircraft position display as one of the IFE channels.
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I don't agree that everything with an antenna is detrimental. I expect the rules apply to transmitters. It would be acceptable to use a shortwave or airband receiver with most airlines, despite the fact that the screening of the IF (intermediate frequency) stage of the set would be an unknown. The GPS is just another receiver, any radiation will be from the mixer circuits inside the unit and expected to be in the order of microwatts.
I agree until "tested" around the aircraft, results cannot be known, but we have often agreed to their use inflight with prior notice so we can watch out for glitches.
I would say that sensitive control and antenna cables in the aircraft are already screened and as long as you don't try to poke 5 watts of VHF around, they should not detect the small amount of RF generated by a handheld reciever. Interesting question though. As always, company policy or captains decision final.
Bob
I agree until "tested" around the aircraft, results cannot be known, but we have often agreed to their use inflight with prior notice so we can watch out for glitches.
I would say that sensitive control and antenna cables in the aircraft are already screened and as long as you don't try to poke 5 watts of VHF around, they should not detect the small amount of RF generated by a handheld reciever. Interesting question though. As always, company policy or captains decision final.
Bob
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Personally I don't really see what the problem is, besides ofcourse people knowing that I b*ll**** my way around the PA, especially when it's cloudy 
GPS, as said before is a receiver, and the tiny amount of generated interference isn't going to be enough to interfere with the a/c. If it is, than a/c need to be redesigned..... They should be well protected against this sort of interference. If they're not, then I'll panic next time I see St Elmo's fire!
[This message has been edited by Phoenix_X (edited 06 January 2001).]
GPS, as said before is a receiver, and the tiny amount of generated interference isn't going to be enough to interfere with the a/c. If it is, than a/c need to be redesigned..... They should be well protected against this sort of interference. If they're not, then I'll panic next time I see St Elmo's fire!
[This message has been edited by Phoenix_X (edited 06 January 2001).]
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Just wondering - how does the radiation emitted by the many 100W cathode ray tubes that entertain passengers on a typical flight compare to that emitted by handheld electrical devices? Does anyone know?
They can't be fully shielded - if they were you wouldn't be able to see the movie!!!
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A question I've been thinking for a while is how the double decker would affect logistics. Is it going to be very large hassle loading pallets up onto the upperdeck? Also... can the upperdeck be able to handle a full load of pallets? (would there be a large load restriction on the upper level?)
Thanks
Thanks
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One Yank bare-CPL holder flashed me his licence and asked me (before TO) if he could use his GPS down the back. It was a Garmin specificaly for pilot use. As these units are designed for operation in a cockpit they therefore have minimal interference. So I said yeh, but turn it off imediately if I have any problems up here. This he agreed to. We had no probs with any EI from his unit (we were 737-300 EFIS).
I dont mind authorising use of such units as long as the guy proves to me he knows what hes doing and I have a look at the toy he wants to play with. A pilots licence of CPL or above suffices in most cases.
I dont mind authorising use of such units as long as the guy proves to me he knows what hes doing and I have a look at the toy he wants to play with. A pilots licence of CPL or above suffices in most cases.
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What a pleasure to read helpful and friendly responses by flight crew to a pax question - apart from HungMonster who, true to form, is reminding us that he has four stripes and threatening to call the police if a pax steps out of line and disobeys his lawful command. 
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Which reminds me, neutral - you didn't answer my last question to you!
If you didn't happen to read the thread, you'll notice that my original reply to the question is perfectly polite, friendly and informative, as was the reply by static.
Overfly then announced that, as far as he was concerned, he was above the rules and used a GPS without asking, even given that most airlines do not allow it. Roadtrip, static and I all pointed out that his attitude was not constructive or mature. Yet you single me out for your attention?
What is your problem? You appear to have difficulty with someone pointing out what is or is not permitted. Perhaps you might find something not too far back in your childhood about your attitude to authority, if you were to visit a good mental health professional.
As for my attitude concerning enforcing rules which are in place to protect me, the aircraft, other members of the crew and passengers, well, I make no apology. If you think it's mean and nasty of me to require that people follow the rules instead of choosing which they follow and which they flout, then that's your problem, not mine.
If you didn't happen to read the thread, you'll notice that my original reply to the question is perfectly polite, friendly and informative, as was the reply by static.
Overfly then announced that, as far as he was concerned, he was above the rules and used a GPS without asking, even given that most airlines do not allow it. Roadtrip, static and I all pointed out that his attitude was not constructive or mature. Yet you single me out for your attention?
What is your problem? You appear to have difficulty with someone pointing out what is or is not permitted. Perhaps you might find something not too far back in your childhood about your attitude to authority, if you were to visit a good mental health professional.
As for my attitude concerning enforcing rules which are in place to protect me, the aircraft, other members of the crew and passengers, well, I make no apology. If you think it's mean and nasty of me to require that people follow the rules instead of choosing which they follow and which they flout, then that's your problem, not mine.
