Boeing NON NORMAL CK LIST philosophy
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Boeing might say it better - but try telling that to the check pilot who often has his own interpretation of the Boeing statement . If the Boeing FCTM was written more clearly and concisely, and without regard to legal niceties, then we wouldn't have all this to-ing and fro-ing on Pprune about who is up who, and who is paying the rent. It beats me that Boeing must have done an enormous amount of research before writing stuff in their manuals, yet only the bare necessities are actually published, leaving pilots to speculate over the Boeing intent.
By the way, with the dreaded engine fire warning on the runway after V1 - and you have no idea of the severity of the fire - how long between first hearing the bell and the subsequent firing the first bottle would you consider reasonable? Have heard lots of theories from 15 seconds maximum, to let it burn until the flaps are up and the PNF has time to recall the recalls. Have seen upwards of one minute before someone fires the bottle. Wings have burnt through in that time.
By the way, with the dreaded engine fire warning on the runway after V1 - and you have no idea of the severity of the fire - how long between first hearing the bell and the subsequent firing the first bottle would you consider reasonable? Have heard lots of theories from 15 seconds maximum, to let it burn until the flaps are up and the PNF has time to recall the recalls. Have seen upwards of one minute before someone fires the bottle. Wings have burnt through in that time.
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
From: Australia
Keep flying the aeroplane, call gear up, make sure your mate selects it up - say 5 seconds max. Don't wait for it to actually come up, because if it won't there's ****** all you can do about it at this early stage.
Both pilots identify, another 5 seconds if you are really slow.
Tell your co-pilot to get on with the recall actions for engine fire, maybe 15 seconds to do the lot, so that's 25 seconds in all.
What often makes it hard, and I have so often experienced it in the simulator, both as instructor and 'victim', is that various operators set up their own cumbersome requirements to have the poor ****** trying to fly the thing get a bit too involved in the actual drill, instead of properly training all co-pilots to do the drill in a methodical manner, with the pilot flying just monitoring.
Seems a bit less emphasis on word perfect 'fly-by-mouth' and more on really knowing just a couple of vital drills really well is maybe what's called for. As I said before - if you know what to do, just DO it - if in doubt get the book out. A fire is one you have to know.
Both pilots identify, another 5 seconds if you are really slow.
Tell your co-pilot to get on with the recall actions for engine fire, maybe 15 seconds to do the lot, so that's 25 seconds in all.
What often makes it hard, and I have so often experienced it in the simulator, both as instructor and 'victim', is that various operators set up their own cumbersome requirements to have the poor ****** trying to fly the thing get a bit too involved in the actual drill, instead of properly training all co-pilots to do the drill in a methodical manner, with the pilot flying just monitoring.
Seems a bit less emphasis on word perfect 'fly-by-mouth' and more on really knowing just a couple of vital drills really well is maybe what's called for. As I said before - if you know what to do, just DO it - if in doubt get the book out. A fire is one you have to know.
Fleet Manager
Joined: Apr 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 7,447
Likes: 310
From: various places .....
Another view is to assign priorities to actions on the basis of addressing that which is going to kill you first ... first ..... the fire warning may well be false ... the consequences of a real fire may not kill you in the next 20 seconds or even the time it takes to recover the aircraft to a landing...
... but losing sight of the bigger picture and flying back into the ground ... or into the hill which the departure turn you overlooked (in your enthusiasm to shut down the engine) was intended to avoid .... can definitely spoil your day very quickly and permanently.
Horses for courses chaps ....
... but losing sight of the bigger picture and flying back into the ground ... or into the hill which the departure turn you overlooked (in your enthusiasm to shut down the engine) was intended to avoid .... can definitely spoil your day very quickly and permanently.
Horses for courses chaps ....
