Landing on Ice
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 1999
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Landing on Ice
I'm interested in finding some info on landing on Ice Runways. (No Skis) In particular info on braking co-efficient and/or the factors that would be used for take-off and landing performance charts.
I understand that as long as its colder than -10C then the braking is quite good. I suspect that the co-efficient would be a factor of the outside air temperature.
Any info would be appreciated and in particular any pointers to reference documents or websites would be wonderful.
Also info on PCN for ice as well would be appreciated.
I understand that as long as its colder than -10C then the braking is quite good. I suspect that the co-efficient would be a factor of the outside air temperature.
Any info would be appreciated and in particular any pointers to reference documents or websites would be wonderful.
Also info on PCN for ice as well would be appreciated.
Transparency International
Joined: Jul 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: Denmark
Sorry no web-sites but Transport Canada have a doc (title not available in present memory config) wich deals solely with operations on ice.
As for BA on ice for GA aircrafts most authorities have a handfull of rules derived from experience ie. add 20% to ldg-dist.
As for BA on ice for GA aircrafts most authorities have a handfull of rules derived from experience ie. add 20% to ldg-dist.
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 8,571
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From: Arizona USA
Have landed on an ice covered runway with a KingAir....braking action nil but used prop reverse to stop. This works so long as there is NO wind.
Suggest the runway should be WELL sanded with a jet. Also would add 50% to the required stopping distance.
Ice is bad news generally.
Also beware of taxiways. Would be a shame to land ok only to slide off the taxistrip.
Suggest the runway should be WELL sanded with a jet. Also would add 50% to the required stopping distance.
Ice is bad news generally.
Also beware of taxiways. Would be a shame to land ok only to slide off the taxistrip.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 1999
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Thanks for the info, I'll check with the Canadian Authorities for the document.
One thing I probably didn't make clear is that this will be a prepared runway on Ice, not ice on a normal runway which could then be sanded. This is not an available option.
regards,
Rudder
One thing I probably didn't make clear is that this will be a prepared runway on Ice, not ice on a normal runway which could then be sanded. This is not an available option.
regards,
Rudder
SkyGod
Joined: Aug 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,624
Likes: 108
From: Palm Coast, Florida, USA
Have landed on ice many times when flying "bush" in Alaska.
The strangest thing was x-wind landings:
Ya land in a crab and you look out the side window as ya slide sideways down the frozen river or lake.
Use motor in small burst's to keep ya on the "centerline".
Also every landing is nice and soft since there is no sideways traction on the wheel:
Therefore if ya hit hard with a spring steel tri-cycle kind of gear like a C-206 or C-207, the wheels deflect out sideways and dampen the landing considerably.
(Not that I ever landed hard
)
On takeoff ya have no nose wheel traction and if ya add full power too quickly, before the rudder takes effect, ya will go left really fast. (I went into a snowbank with a C-206 loaded with 6 fat skydivers and full power, slow speed and very aft C.G., as I cut the power just before I hit the snowbank, the nose back back to the right and we did not damage anything...The left mainwheel cut a nice ditch through the snowbank, pure luck.
The plowed strip was only half a wingspan wide, way too narrow for departing with little or no traction.
Don't know if I would have balls to go back and do it today, but it was fun.
As far as stopping, yes, the colder the better. Very low density altitudes, low ground speed, more drag from flaps, etc.
The lowest I remember was 5000 BELOW sea-level. A normally aspirated engine will then develop more horsepower than the engine or airplane is certified for, but with no "reduced power charts", you just go full blast anyway.
Try that in an empty C-185 and ya are in for a good ride...
Good Luck
The strangest thing was x-wind landings:
Ya land in a crab and you look out the side window as ya slide sideways down the frozen river or lake.
Use motor in small burst's to keep ya on the "centerline".
Also every landing is nice and soft since there is no sideways traction on the wheel:
Therefore if ya hit hard with a spring steel tri-cycle kind of gear like a C-206 or C-207, the wheels deflect out sideways and dampen the landing considerably.
(Not that I ever landed hard
)On takeoff ya have no nose wheel traction and if ya add full power too quickly, before the rudder takes effect, ya will go left really fast. (I went into a snowbank with a C-206 loaded with 6 fat skydivers and full power, slow speed and very aft C.G., as I cut the power just before I hit the snowbank, the nose back back to the right and we did not damage anything...The left mainwheel cut a nice ditch through the snowbank, pure luck.
The plowed strip was only half a wingspan wide, way too narrow for departing with little or no traction.
Don't know if I would have balls to go back and do it today, but it was fun.
As far as stopping, yes, the colder the better. Very low density altitudes, low ground speed, more drag from flaps, etc.
The lowest I remember was 5000 BELOW sea-level. A normally aspirated engine will then develop more horsepower than the engine or airplane is certified for, but with no "reduced power charts", you just go full blast anyway.
Try that in an empty C-185 and ya are in for a good ride...
Good Luck
Joined: Aug 1998
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: Ex-pat Aussie in the UK
Rudder, I think if you are talking about light aircraft on ice runways, then you can't go past F.E. Potts Guide to Bush Flying.
It is a web published book, including pictures (for those of us that don't like to read!), that is an amazing insight to flying in winter Alaska.
Section two contains information on landing techniques on ice.
It is a web published book, including pictures (for those of us that don't like to read!), that is an amazing insight to flying in winter Alaska.
Section two contains information on landing techniques on ice.
Joined: Feb 2000
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From: CYZV
Hey Tower, if you gave a little tap of power and full left rudder on that landing technique, you'd do a 180 and wind up slidin' down the runway backwards.
Seriously, Rudder you should post this on the Canadian Forum. Northwest Territorial used to operate aircraft up to the Herc and the 737 off ice when the Beaufort Sea exploration boom was on.
Seriously, Rudder you should post this on the Canadian Forum. Northwest Territorial used to operate aircraft up to the Herc and the 737 off ice when the Beaufort Sea exploration boom was on.
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: Three Tors
Try this site fellas. There are some really good pics in there too. Aparently there is a forum in there somewhere, but there is no way it could ever be as good as this one! 
Them Damn-fool Ski Pilots!
Regards.
Them Damn-fool Ski Pilots!
Regards.
