Landings
Landings
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: NY, USA
I've been using this for 30 years. It works for helicopters to whatever. Next time your motoring down the highway in your 4-wheeler, roll down your window and look straight down at the road surface. Looks rather blurry eh? Move your vision further ahead until you can focus clearly on the pavement and see the definition of the pavement. The faster you're traveling, the further you will have to look. It appears to me that if your eyes can't focus on the surface because of the apparent speed, you can't accurately judge depth perception. -CY
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,991
Likes: 8
From: UK
It's an interesting point as to where we all look when we are landing.
A recent TV programme on driving and "hazard awareness" showed a newly qualified driver fitted with some type of visor which showed where his eyes were looking.
It would be interesting to fit pilots out with this kit to see where they look when they are landing, etc!
To tell the honest truth I am not too sure where I look but the old adage that good landings start with good approaches is always a good starting point and, if your landing judgement isn't quite how you would like it then try (if you dare!) "experimenting" with looking in a different place.
I have never been too happy with the word "flare" and prefer "roundout". As we complete the roundout then I would suggest there is much merit in looking at the far horizon since we are trying to select the correct landing attitude.
Having said that, there is more than one way of "skinning a cat" and over the years I have seen all sorts of different techniques! If only we had something that worked well every time! But, as they say, any landing you can walk away from is a good one.
A recent TV programme on driving and "hazard awareness" showed a newly qualified driver fitted with some type of visor which showed where his eyes were looking.
It would be interesting to fit pilots out with this kit to see where they look when they are landing, etc!
To tell the honest truth I am not too sure where I look but the old adage that good landings start with good approaches is always a good starting point and, if your landing judgement isn't quite how you would like it then try (if you dare!) "experimenting" with looking in a different place.
I have never been too happy with the word "flare" and prefer "roundout". As we complete the roundout then I would suggest there is much merit in looking at the far horizon since we are trying to select the correct landing attitude.
Having said that, there is more than one way of "skinning a cat" and over the years I have seen all sorts of different techniques! If only we had something that worked well every time! But, as they say, any landing you can walk away from is a good one.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
The question assumes you only look in one place and doesn't take into account any peripheral vision or even aircraft type where different visual effects may be encountered.
Until the flare the touchdown point should be your focus. At this point you shift to the far end of the runway/horizon direction and attitude reference. You should also be able to feel in your peripheral vision the runway edge markings and the runway itself.
I trust it goes without saying that the throttle is closed and that the aircraft is trimmed correctly to the proper speed.
If all these things are in order you can just close your eyes and wait...there's only one way to go!
Until the flare the touchdown point should be your focus. At this point you shift to the far end of the runway/horizon direction and attitude reference. You should also be able to feel in your peripheral vision the runway edge markings and the runway itself.
I trust it goes without saying that the throttle is closed and that the aircraft is trimmed correctly to the proper speed.
If all these things are in order you can just close your eyes and wait...there's only one way to go!
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
From: UK
Generally, it's just practice on the type you fly. Arrive over the threshold/touchdown point at the right speed, flare as you have been taught, and look ahead, (not at the ground right in front of you) and the aeroplane will sit down sweet as pie. Speed is the key. Get that right and the rest just happens. (Now I brace myself for all the others to tell you that all this is crap. It isn't.)
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
From: Netherlands
Anyone ever heard of the Jacobson-flare? I've read an article about it a few years ago. Apparently it's being taught Downunder.
If I remember well, it's based on the geometry between the eye, it's height above the main wheels, the angle of the nose in front of the windshield, and the length of centreline markings.
The formula is supposed to produce an aiming point, that can be calculated for any type. By using it, transition to another airplane should be as easy as finding the master switch...
Erik.
If I remember well, it's based on the geometry between the eye, it's height above the main wheels, the angle of the nose in front of the windshield, and the length of centreline markings.
The formula is supposed to produce an aiming point, that can be calculated for any type. By using it, transition to another airplane should be as easy as finding the master switch...
Erik.
Joined: Aug 1998
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 6,623
Likes: 847
From: Ex-pat Aussie in the UK
"Been there, done that!" - scanning and posting the article, I mean, on the instructor Forum a while ago.
Have a look (on the second page) at Jacobson flare.
Personally, I look at the other pilot's face - when they flinch, it is time to flare!!
O.K. an oldie I know. Actually I don't like the term "flare" as it is a bit imprecise. I prefer "Round out" and "Hold off" - the round out being the bit where you transition from approach to landing, and the hold off being the bit you try to save your reputation as a gun driver.
Have a look (on the second page) at Jacobson flare.
Personally, I look at the other pilot's face - when they flinch, it is time to flare!!
O.K. an oldie I know. Actually I don't like the term "flare" as it is a bit imprecise. I prefer "Round out" and "Hold off" - the round out being the bit where you transition from approach to landing, and the hold off being the bit you try to save your reputation as a gun driver.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
From: Netherlands
Thanks, Checkboard!
Defying Murphy's Law, I dug myself in a pile of Flight Internationals covering 4 full years... to find article after only 15 minutes. Too bad the lottery's tomorrow
.
Since the article in FI is different from the one you pointed to, I took the liberty of posting it after all. It consists of 2 scans of 650 and 850kB.
http://www.flyboy.nl/flare/JacobsonFlare1.jpg http://www.flyboy.nl/flare/JacobsonFlare2.jpg
Many thanks to Flight International!
Erik.
Defying Murphy's Law, I dug myself in a pile of Flight Internationals covering 4 full years... to find article after only 15 minutes. Too bad the lottery's tomorrow
.Since the article in FI is different from the one you pointed to, I took the liberty of posting it after all. It consists of 2 scans of 650 and 850kB.
http://www.flyboy.nl/flare/JacobsonFlare1.jpg http://www.flyboy.nl/flare/JacobsonFlare2.jpg
Many thanks to Flight International!
Erik.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,856
Likes: 75
From: uk
During The last few months I have lost confidence in getting the flare right – most of my recent landings have been safe but untidy. Some of the contributions on this thread have been extremely helpful in making me realise what my problem is.
Years ago, as a gliding instructor, I used to drive into my students the importance of looking well ahead once they were happy that they that they would end up on the airfield and had the speed under control. So I know that this is the key to a good flare and landing. In recent years though I am not sure where I actually look myself.
I spend about 3 hours a day on motorways, driving mostly at light ac approach speeds and, although I know that I react quickly to events in the far distance, I am again not sure where I look. I therefore tried out Corporate Yank’s suggestion of looking at the road at different distances and made a few interesting discoveries:
1. I found that looking (focusing) into the far distance in order to control direction required conscious effort from my eye muscles. This told me that I am not normally doing it.
2. When I look into the far distance, my natural tendency to wander slightly within the lane disappears. Control remained instinctive.
3. When I look into the distance, my response to events in my peripheral vision is slightly impaired although this may improve if I get used to it. Obviously this less important when landing an aircraft as you don’t normally expect someone to suddenly pull out in front of you, although regular users of farm strips might disagree with that.
I am now convinced that too much motorway driving has impaired my ability to control the flare and, now that I know it, I am hoping that my next landing will be better, just in time for my BFR. I might take an instructor on my next flight, just in case.
I hope that this might help others who may be having similar problems with landings.
Years ago, as a gliding instructor, I used to drive into my students the importance of looking well ahead once they were happy that they that they would end up on the airfield and had the speed under control. So I know that this is the key to a good flare and landing. In recent years though I am not sure where I actually look myself.
I spend about 3 hours a day on motorways, driving mostly at light ac approach speeds and, although I know that I react quickly to events in the far distance, I am again not sure where I look. I therefore tried out Corporate Yank’s suggestion of looking at the road at different distances and made a few interesting discoveries:
1. I found that looking (focusing) into the far distance in order to control direction required conscious effort from my eye muscles. This told me that I am not normally doing it.
2. When I look into the far distance, my natural tendency to wander slightly within the lane disappears. Control remained instinctive.
3. When I look into the distance, my response to events in my peripheral vision is slightly impaired although this may improve if I get used to it. Obviously this less important when landing an aircraft as you don’t normally expect someone to suddenly pull out in front of you, although regular users of farm strips might disagree with that.
I am now convinced that too much motorway driving has impaired my ability to control the flare and, now that I know it, I am hoping that my next landing will be better, just in time for my BFR. I might take an instructor on my next flight, just in case.
I hope that this might help others who may be having similar problems with landings.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 264
Likes: 148
From: SEA
I find the radio altimeter call out to be extremely helpful when landing. The countdown 50, 40 etc gives me a feel how fast the airplane approaches the tarmac and when to flare. If you donīt have a call out but a radio altimeter then have the PNF make the call outs. Since we land at all sorts of runways, short and long, wide and narrow, aiming at a certain point ahead of the plane wonīt always do the trick. This is especially true when landing on a runway which is short and doesnīt have the standard markings of an ILS runway.
